The new OLD FTF gets a "Duesenberg DOHC 4-valve"

[Stealth Bummer]

How 'bout :"The Frenchtown Flyer"? Heck, it's a cool moniker already- why not use it? It certainly sounds "period-correct".
PM me for shipping info for the head, etc. LOL

[woodbutcher]

Hi FTF.Am enjoying the thread and the pics.Best of luck with your project.
Leo

[Inline6Guy]

Lets see ..........the "Nut-N-Special"............. FauxMoCo......... Mock1 ....... Faux Flyer ............. now you have got me thinking about it. Quit mind, quit!!!

[mutt]

Le Renard Subtil- the Sly Fox, in French. Ferocious Iroquios opponent of the Deerslayer. think Wes Studi in "Last of the Mohicans. "
Allows a ferocious painted warrior for a mascot. And I believe in France in War One & the 20's, American Indians had great cache among pilots & racers.......

[Geezer 300]

Definitely want a copy of the article!!

[shmoozo]

I've been looking at sources for "vintage" tires and stumbled on these.

From that web page:

Tyres designed for street and race track use. Uses a good looking 3 stud tread pattern, used on just about everything pre-war. Tyres rated to 130 MPH (except Classico) and are D.O.T. tested for the USA. These tyres have the correct section width for each size.

and this image ...



I'm not sure if that's anything akin to what you'd like on the car, but ...

There's other kinds of vintage tires out there, too, of course. Just thought I'd add these to the mix in case you hadn't already seen them.

[THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER]

Out of curiousity have you decided on a finish for the exhaust? I mean, you could build the entire thing from stainless and then polish it...

I decided to go with polished stainless. Does anybody have a source for a piece of 4" polished stainless steel, preferably in the Great Lakes area? Cheap? I s'pose I could get some heavy truck exhaust stack. I need about an 8 foot section.

[Stubby]

I might be able to get you a four inch piece of stainless. It would be about .080 wall and mighty heavy, and it wouldn't be polished. It would also be located in Texas.

I know this isn't much help, believe me I would like to help.

[shmoozo]

Out of curiousity have you decided on a finish for the exhaust? I mean, you could build the entire thing from stainless and then polish it...

I decided to go with polished stainless. Does anybody have a source for a piece of 4" polished stainless steel, preferably in the Great Lakes area? Cheap? I s'pose I could get some heavy truck exhaust stack. I need about an 8 foot section.

So you'd be using this for the pipe that runs along the right side of the speedster, right?

Hmmm ... I dunno about cheap, but ... Burns Stainless has 4" diameter 304 stainless 16 gauge tubing for about $28/foot and I would think that's unpolished. They're in California. Link HERE.

They also have the higher grade 321 stainless in a 4 inch diameter but a lighter weight 20 gauge but that's almost twice as expensive. Since this is for the pipe AFTER the header it most likely won't be exposed to the heat extremes a header primary tube would see so I'd say the 304 (which I gather polishes up really nicely) would be the more rational choice.

Then again, a nice 4 inch diameter 304 stainless exhaust stack for a truck that you could pick up at a local full service truck stop or over-the-road truck dealer might be a bit less costly. Poking around a little on the internet I saw some with straight ends that were as tall as 96" which would be exactly the 8 feet you'd need. Check around with the places that service large trucks in your area for prices.

One nice thing about using an 8 foot long, 4 inch diameter pipe. That's large enough to slip in a Cherry Bomb style glasspack muffler (or two ... or even three ) if the darn thing winds up being so darn noisy the police in the next town over get called every time you fire it up.

Frankly, I'd be willing to bet it's gonna be really, really loud as a straight pipe . I'm not really sure how you'd fix a muffler inside so it wouldn't just slide back out, but I'm pretty sure a resourceful guy like you who had access to a welder and some cutting tools could find a way to manage.



Oh, and here's one final thought. If there's a big truck salvage yard near you anywhere you might be able to work a deal on a used stack pulled off a big rig. It'd likely have some scratches and dings and dents and "patina", but then again that might just make it all the more appealing to you depending on the "look" you're going for with this thing.

[Muki]

This project is such an inspiring one. Following the developments, I studied both Indy and European GP history and discovered that there have indeed been very wild rides both sides of the Atlantic. Cars like Auto-Union Type D for example. Also the Miller history site is worth reading. What a surprise that many of the legendary race cars were FWD (!) at the time. Never crossed my mind it could be that way.

Also some of the Mercedes GP cars from the years immediately before and somewhat after the WWII are pure hot rods. For example, look at this site

http://www.marksf1models.co.uk/CMC/CMC.htm

although they are toys, the pics are good in quality and make for very interesting journey. Also the 1960 Maseratis - am I the only one who thinks they were pretty advanced at the time ?

Not to forget the obvious

http://www.milleroffy.com/Photo%20&%20S ... htm#Photos

for an instant time machine.

All in all, FTF's project - I run out of words. Best of luck for the project !

[THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER]

Thanks for the links Muki. That Mercedes W25 really looks sharp. One thing I notced as I studied all the cars was an absence of shoulder harnesses, which my car WILL have. I just need to figure out the best way to anchor them behind my shoulders. It will take some additional bars and bracing though.

Ditto on a removable roll bar.

[Muki]

Sir,
any news - bet I'm not the only one eager to know ? Yes I know it was said earlier that other tasks are more important now, but...

[MustangSix]

I found a suitable body shell for you.



More inspiration at the Ronart website. Do a fenderless version.

[THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER]

That is a beautiful car but I do think it would look better without the fenders.

Muki, Yes I'm back on this project in fits and starts. I made a deep sump oil pan, a low-buck center steer set-up (from a '56 Ford truck box), motor mounts (flathead style), etc. I will post some photos when I get a chance. Busy, busy, busy.

[THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER]

Hi Friends. New photos are posted (further up the topic - scroll up).

The first one shows the motor mounted. Custom mounts (4 degree installation angle) using Speedway biscuits, C4 trans and crossmember in place. I will add lightening holes to the engine mounts when time permits. Is that motor imposing-looking or what?

The second pic shows the old-timey deep sump oil pan I built to give it a racey look. The short block will be .020-over 1987 block.

The third pic shows the C4 crossmember with a stock cushion. With a lopey cam the drivedrain will shake and shimmy in this lightweight flyer. Perfect.

The last pic shows a low-buck center-steer box I built from a '56 Ford pickup manual box; a stock box is on the left. I made a shaft extension, center mount and a more favorable pitman arm for the outboard side. This saves me trying to find a rather pricey Ross or Shroeder center-steer box somewhere.

I'm really psyched about gettin to gettin to it on this project. But it is number three priority at the moment so progress has been slow.

In pioneer days the area where I grew up in NE Ohio had places like Mulberry Corners and Wool Hollow on the old maps. Long-forgotten post offices and farming enclaves. I plan to memorialize these places on the side of the car with mythical "Wool Hollow Speedway " and "Mulberry Corners Garage" signage.

Next steps: Mock in steering box and dash/cowl area.

[shmoozo]

In pioneer days the area where I grew up in NE Ohio had places like Mulberry Corners and Wool Hollow on the old maps. Long-forgotten post offices and farming enclaves. I plan to memorialize these places on the side of the car with mythical "Wool Hollow Speedway " and "Mulberry Corners Garage" signage.

This suggests a possible moniker for the car -- The Mulberry Corners Meteor or perhaps simply The Mulberry Meteor.

Not bad, eh?



By the way, mulberries, when ripe, are a deep, blackish-purple color, which might actually make a darn nice color for a car. Just a thought.

[THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER]

Thanks. Good "food" for thought. I usually paint my cars some variant of blue but deep purple sounds good - maybe over cream in a scalloped format.

[addo]

deep purple sounds good

Spoken like a true "Machine Head".

[shmoozo]

Thanks. Good "food" for thought. I usually paint my cars some variant of blue but deep purple sounds good - maybe over cream in a scalloped format.

That could look really good. Scallops in a period correct style would be a nice touch no matter what colors you end up using.

[THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER]

I modified the '56 F100 steering box for center steering. Cleaned and ground case, converted it from oil to grease lube, added sector shaft extension.



Decided to go with a traditional rear leaf spring instead of coil-overs. I found this one at a swap meet in Adrian MI for $10. I have no idea what it is from - its not an 'A' beacuse it is 2.25 inches wide and the 'A' springs are 1.75 inches wide. It may be from an 'AA' or a 'T' heavy truck. Only about four or five of the 10 leaves will be used.


Next comes a steering crossmember, drag link, and cockpit/cowl buck.

[tjm73]

Did you say you are thinking baout doing a book on hot rodding 300's? Mark me down for a copy if you write it.

[THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER]

Sexy exhaust system – racers dream –> pipefitters nightmare

Started on the exhaust system – polished stainless old school racing exhaust 6-into-1 down the side of the car to the rear in a 4â€￾ pipe.

Some subtle details:
The head pipes are in a plane of 4 degrees down in front. That is because the engine sits in the chassis at 4 degrees and I think the head pipes will look better if they are level with the frame rail.

The alignment jig board is located approximately where the side of the hood will be.

I was tempted to just run the head pipes straight into the collector to save much fit-up work and expense. I finally decided to sweep them to the rear.

Now they have to be fitted together and TIG welded.

I decided to use the Crossflow Head on this project.

I am also looking for two (or three) side draft carburetors for that old timey induction system look (think ’53 Hudson Twin H Power or ’54 Corvette).

[woodbutcher]

Hi FTF.Looking good.
Leo

[pssnmn1]

most beutimuss sir

[Geezer 300]

I thought Hudsons had downdrafts The exhaust is beginning to look nice.

[THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER]

Right you are - Hudsons were downdrafts. What I want to achieve is the look of carbs going in one hood side panel and exhausts out the other side panel. I've seen some down drafts, and even some updrafts in these old cars, but sidedrafts is the best looking to me. Maybe with a homebuilt all-encompassing air cleaner for those dirt short tracks.

[shmoozo]

... I am also looking for two (or three) side draft carburetors for that old timey induction system look (think ’53 Hudson Twin H Power or ’54 Corvette). ...

Possibly something off a 60's vintage Jaguar? I seem to recall that some of those had induction systems using 2 to 3 side draft carburetors. SU carbs, perhaps?

Here's a couple links with what might be some helpful hints.

Jaguar Engine, Fuel and Sparks

THE H.A.M.B. > General Discussion > Hokey Ass Message Board > Good cheap side draft carbs

[THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER]

Thanks fot the helpful suggestions. Boy, those Jag engines sure are pretty.

[shmoozo]

Thanks fot the helpful suggestions. Boy, those Jag engines sure are pretty.

Yeah, they were. They were like a lot of the classic DOHC designs from the 50's.

The Alfa Romeo inlines of the period were similar in a lot of ways, but they were a lot smaller. The fours ran from about 1.3 liters to 1.6 liters, and later up to about 2.0 liters as I recall. They also had some DOHC six cylinder inlines that went up to about 2.6 liters. Wild looking things they were, especially in the triple-carb Spider version of the engine. Not too many of the sixes made it to this side of the Atlantic.

I had a friend who had a small collection of the Alfas. Among them were a Guilia Sprint Speciale, a 1.6 liter powered thing which looked like a smallish Ferrari. Very limited production on those. He also had one of just three 2600 (2.6 liter inline 6) sedans that ever made it to the US. They were evidently brought over for the Italian consulate, but weren't normal import items. Alfa only sold the coupes and spiders from that line here, and didn't sell many of those.

The sedan reminded me a bit like a small version of Checker sedan -- all boxy and upright -- but it went like stink and cornered like you would not believe. The interior was downright luxurious in an understated way. And like all Alfas of that period it had a 5 speed manual trans. Unlike the others, however, it didn't use a floor shifter. No, it actually had a "5-on-the-tree." I don't think you'll find many people who ever drove a car with one of those

[Geezer 300]

5 on the tree?? Hate to see the linkage on that

[woodbutcher]

Hi Geezer300.That would definitely be a mechanics nightmare for maintaince.Can you say"explosion in a spagetti factory".
Leo

[addo]

Actually, it's very simple. One lever is equal to transverse motion through the gate, while the other represents for-and-aft selection. Renault did it, too. I think some of the Japanese vehicles use a cable pair for the same result on a tree shift, just as they use cable pairs for the floorshift on a FWD motor.

[Geezer 300]

More than one lever?? Great, I already have problems with wipers, lights and turn signals with these new vehicles

[addo]

No, I mean at the base of the jacket, where it pokes into the engine bay. they already have two levers there.

[THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER]

Here's the exhaust all welded up. Can't wait to hear it. The first photo is taken (now use your imagination a bit here) hopping over the pit wall. The next is flat-trackin down into turn 1. The last getting pushed into victory lane.

[Geezer 300]

I can see you going by waving the victory flag, as I'm waiting in the pits

[Pinhead]

Headers are tough enough to seal as it is, without all of that extra weight and leverage pulling them down. What are you going to do to help support that exhaust?

[shmoozo]

Here's the exhaust all welded up. Can't wait to hear it.

I love the way that turned out, but it looks to me as though hearing protection is going to be important while operating that thing for any significant length of time. No doubt about it, the roar of that critter at full chat is going to be LOUD!



With that in mind, here is another suggestion for a possible name.

"The Frenchtown Lion"

[woodbutcher]

Hey shmoozo.Loud it might be.HOWEVER,look close at the cockpit mockup.
Centerline of CENTER of cockpit appears to be AT LEAST 3 or more feet forward of the end of the header dump,so it SHOULD`NT be all that loud in the cockpit.
Leo

[Geezer 300]

If we can get it fast enough to out run the speed of sound, no problem However the wind noise would still be there

[THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER]

Well, my plan is to fab a slip-in muffler to slide into the end of the tailpipe. And be easily removed too.

NEWSFLASH!: My friend John E just donated a set of two SU sidedraft carburetors with manifold. Many thanks John!
Now to get busy on a XFLO intake.

[StrangeRanger]

A friend gave you a pair of SUs?
I'd hate to see what your enemies do.

[SuperMag]

Are you kidding? I love those things!

[pssnmn1]

you have to remember its FTF ...

carbs probably decend from the heavans

[addo]

FTF, what type of SU, and what throttle bore?

[THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER]

They still have the metal part tags on them: AUD135F and AUD135R (presumably Front and Rear) on a cast aluminum intake with balance tube - I think they are Austin Healey - with about a 1.5" bore. Im guessing that combined they dont flow more than 350 cfm @ 3". Boy are these things weird compared to my American junk - I have a lot to learn. Does anybody have a good website to recommend regarding rebuilding / modifying them?

[StrangeRanger]

Go to a plumbing website and get the adjustment instructions for a Sloan Valve. They work about the same way.

Virtually anything on tuning British cars from the 60s should have info on the SU

[addo]

F and R are indeed the pair denotations.

Those are early (66/67) MGB carbs, with the 1½" throttle bore you noted. Honestly, they will be a little weedy for any performance application unless you ran four of them. Sizes from one inch through two inches carry the same square mounting flange specs.

SU carbs are generically identified with an even number up to eight following the preceding letters. EG; HIF 6, HS 4, HD 8. The number represents total number of eighth-inches in the throttle bore exceeding one inch. So an HS 2 is 1" plus 2/8 inches, or 1¼" total...

Carbs with the separate float bowl off to the side, are earlier but probably less likely to give headaches than those with integrated fuel bowls.

These guys have a good stock of parts and reproduce stuff (but the website is a bit clunky!): http://www.burlen.co.uk/default.aspx

Rebuilding is simple; the largest exercise normally is bronze-bushing the throttle spindle holes. Solvent clean the carbs only; no acid dipping. Pull one apart at a time and marvel at how simple and clever the fuel circuit is.

Regards, Adam.

[SuperMag]

Read through this...

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/foru ... readid=360

...and click on the links. Oughta get ya started.

Parts...
http://www.aptfast.com/APT_Parts/SU_Par ... onents.htm

[THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER]

Thanks for the info.

I measured my throttle bores and they are only 1.37. So yes, kinda small, but maybe good for cruising down the street in the 4th of July parade at 3 mph. A YF 1V has a 1.65 bore, but these SUs dont have a small venturi. I'm thinking they have about 40% bigger throttle area.