It is currently Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:36 am





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ] 
300 I6 Cam ideas 
Author Message
Registered User

Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:40 pm
Posts: 75
Location: Mankato, MN
Post 300 I6 Cam ideas
Just wonderin, I am building a 300 with 11.5:1 Static CR and I want to throw a little cam at it. How much cam can I get away with without hurting my mileage too much? I will be running either 92 or E-85 through a carb and eventually I will go to a dual 2.8l tbi setup with megasquirt. I am running 2.75:1 gears in a 9" rear end with 28" tall tires, and a stock C6 tranny. Will install a shift kit in the tranny hopefully soon. All this is in a 1984 Ford E-150 that weighs approximately 4750 lbs.

_________________
1990 F-150, 4.9l, C6


Sat Dec 26, 2009 3:21 pm
Profile
VIP Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 6:54 pm
Posts: 8004
Location: Copley, OH
Post Re: 300 I6 Cam ideas
11.5:1?? And you're only planning on running92 octane? You'd better find a station that sells 100 octane race gas. You're going to need it.

4750 lbs and 2.75 gears is going to be a complete stone. At the very least, you should think about the WR gearset for your C6. Even then it won't be anything like quick.

_________________
1996 F-150 (tow missile)
1993 Mustang 5.0 (hot rod and auto-x monster)
1982 Tiga Formula Ford (SCCA racecar)
2013 Hyundai Elantra Coupe (daily driver)


Sat Dec 26, 2009 3:54 pm
Profile
Global Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 12:00 am
Posts: 1639
Location: Phoenix , AZ
Post Re: 300 I6 Cam ideas
Look at Comp Cams Extreme energy grinds for the sbf especialy the 262-274 grinds. I'm not an expert on any of this stuff but think they would work good in our motors if you concentrate on producing torque. The gears i would suggest 3.55-3.73 to help get the weight moving.

_________________
Image 300's make good truck motors....not race motors


Sat Dec 26, 2009 4:12 pm
Profile
FSP Moderator

Joined: Fri May 16, 2003 10:25 pm
Posts: 6274
Location: Careywood, Idaho
Post Re: 300 I6 Cam ideas
With that much compression you do NOT want a short-duration, RV-type cam; make it at least 270º with a wide LSA so as to have a late intake closing event and you might get away with it. Maybe.
Joe

_________________
74 F-350 300-6, EFI manifolds into single exhaust, Carter YF, T-18B, Dana70 w/4.11, Flatbed dually w/dump bed. Great farm truck!
Image


Sat Dec 26, 2009 4:25 pm
Profile
Registered User

Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:40 pm
Posts: 75
Location: Mankato, MN
Post Re: 300 I6 Cam ideas
No hostility intended by this. I'm sorry I didn't specify this thing's use. It will be used mainly for towing a trailer and driving myself around. BTW, you would've been surprised to see what this thing was like when my engine wasn't worn out. It actually accellerated pretty good. That was with less than stock torque and horsepower when the thing weighed 5000 lbs. And I said the wrong weight, it's now closer to 4500 lbs, which isn't much heavier than your average full size pickup. They put the 2.75 gears in LOTS of 9" rear ends from the factory. And another thing about my fuel, 92 will be fine and I also stated I would run E-85 too which is 97+ octane, my father built an engine with domed pistons and it ran beautifully on pumpgas, and my friend runs his turbo 3.8 gokart on 87 with 9.4:1 and it doesn't start pinging till it hits 6 PSI of boost which would calculate to approximately 13.2:1 CR after boost. Thanks.

_________________
1990 F-150, 4.9l, C6


Sat Dec 26, 2009 11:37 pm
Profile
Global Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 10:49 pm
Posts: 5502
Location: The Great state of Ohio!!
Post Re: 300 I6 Cam ideas
Lazy JW wrote:
With that much compression you do NOT want a short-duration, RV-type cam; make it at least 270º with a wide LSA so as to have a late intake closing event and you might get away with it. Maybe.
Joe


Joe is right on this one. 11.25 comp doesn't go with a "little cam"
In fact 1 11.25 compression ratio, 2 4500 lbs, 3 towing, 4 MPG, 5 2.75 gears .
Usally one of these is NOT found with the others. One exception with propane,E85, straight alky, fine but if you run out do NOT try to run it on ANY 87 octane.

_________________
OAPSE Union Member

Real men don't wear Bowties
When it come to engines If its .001 loose nobody knows, But if its .001 too tight EVERYBODY KNOWS!!
80 bronco FUV (farm utility vehicle)300 T-18 3.50s EFI head, offy C dual plenum, 500 edel carb, 1.7 roller rockers, Crane 260 cam EFI Exh


Sun Dec 27, 2009 1:59 am
Profile
FSP Moderator

Joined: Fri May 16, 2003 10:25 pm
Posts: 6274
Location: Careywood, Idaho
Post Re: 300 I6 Cam ideas
84FordVan wrote:
........ It will be used mainly for towing a trailer........

..........my friend runs his turbo 3.8 gokart on 87 with 9.4:1 and it doesn't start pinging till it hits 6 PSI of boost which would calculate to approximately 13.2:1 CR after boost.....


Please do not misunderstand, there is a world of difference between trailer towing for long periods of time and short-duration gokart acceleration.

There is a reason why the Ford engine designers actually REDUCED the compression ratio on the Heavy Duty 300's that were destined for use in the larger trucks (up to 26,000 lbs gross). I have no idea what your trailer towing scenario involves, but any time you tie a tail onto a pickup it is wise to consider the consequences.
Joe

_________________
74 F-350 300-6, EFI manifolds into single exhaust, Carter YF, T-18B, Dana70 w/4.11, Flatbed dually w/dump bed. Great farm truck!
Image


Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:54 am
Profile
VIP Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 6:54 pm
Posts: 8004
Location: Copley, OH
Post Re: 300 I6 Cam ideas
If you're intent on keeping the 2.75 gears, you're going to want an engine/trans build that makes beaucoup torque at low RPM and maintains a wide torque band to carry you through the gears. The cam that does that (as JW pointed out earlier) is not compatible with 11.5:1 compression. In the long run you're going to be much happier with a 9.0:1 CR (or less), an RV cam and a WR gearset in that C6.

So other than being able to brag that you have 11.5:1 compression, why exactly do you want it? The increases in performance that you get from that sort of a CR are more than offset by the loss of usable RPM range that it also creates, not to mention the additional expense of premium (or better) fuel.

_________________
1996 F-150 (tow missile)
1993 Mustang 5.0 (hot rod and auto-x monster)
1982 Tiga Formula Ford (SCCA racecar)
2013 Hyundai Elantra Coupe (daily driver)


Sun Dec 27, 2009 12:14 pm
Profile
Registered User
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:34 pm
Posts: 280
Location: North Alabama
Post Re: 300 I6 Cam ideas
filling the cylinder (within a particular rpm range) involves an area under the lift curve and starting points and closing points in relation to piston position, read in terms of crank rotation. the engine's static compression is pretty much matched to supplement the engine dynamic compression capability, maintaining a good margin of dynamic compression which produces good torque and utilizing the inlet charge as well as possible (volumetric efficiency). Knock rating of the fuel dictates how much of a positive margin of dynamic compression the motor can tolerate, and use to its benefit.

high static compression is required when valve events are positioned in a manner (typically wider) that dynamic compression is compromised. Those valve events typically will not produce as clean of off-idle response and extreme low end that conservative valve events would. The reason being the wider valve events are more productive at the higher rpms.

When conservative valve events are dictated but there is a mismatch in regards to the static compression, the main thing that has to occur is for the motor (ignition and dynamic compression primarily) to be fooled into thinking everything is right. This means the seat events need to be widened and the position of the exhaust lobe in such a manner to start the evacuation earlier (killing cylinder pressure). In short, wider seat durations, lazy ramp rates, and earlier exhaust events (typically as a wider lobe sep angle). Likewise on the flip side, too low of static compression needs to be met with narrower seat events and higher ramp rates.

Basically, you take cylinder filling (performance) capability away from the motor and let the higher static compression fill in that gap. If you have regular selection of higher octane fuels then that cushion can be absorbed somewhat, but you have to acknowledge that as a tow vehicle and high rear-end ratio that your rpm range is going to be optimized in pretty low ranges (1800-2400). Valve events that promote performance in this range, paired up with a pretty serious static compression, even with good fuel, are not going to be something that a blind stab at a cam catalog based on rpm range alone is going to compensate for.

_________________
It doesn't run quick at the track, but it gets long stares wherever it goes.
Never in a million years did I think I would have an antique hot rod truck, much less with its own name emblazoned on the front fender and a freakin' six cylinder for power;
but it is a Ford, it is old, and it is definitely one of the funnest vehicles I have driven.


Sun Dec 27, 2009 12:37 pm
Profile WWW
Registered User
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 3:56 pm
Posts: 767
Location: Rivervale, Central Antonica
Post Re: 300 I6 Cam ideas
84FordVan wrote:
No hostility intended by this. I'm sorry I didn't specify this thing's use. It will be used mainly for towing a trailer and driving myself around.


Then the last thing you want to build for that truck is an engine with an 11.5:1 compression ratio.

No readily available pump gas formulation (including E85) has enough octane to run well in an engine with a CR that high and a daily driver/tow rig style cam.

_________________
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
-Henry Louis Mencken


Sun Dec 27, 2009 1:06 pm
Profile
Registered User

Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:40 pm
Posts: 75
Location: Mankato, MN
Post Re: 300 I6 Cam ideas
By "Throw a little cam at it" I by no means meant little cam, I meant a little more cam duration. It's an expression I use.

_________________
1990 F-150, 4.9l, C6


Sun Dec 27, 2009 9:02 pm
Profile
FSP Moderator

Joined: Fri May 16, 2003 10:25 pm
Posts: 6274
Location: Careywood, Idaho
Post Re: 300 I6 Cam ideas
84FordVan wrote:
By "Throw a little cam at it" I by no means meant little cam, I meant a little more cam duration. It's an expression I use.

Go for it! Keep us posted on the results,
Joe

_________________
74 F-350 300-6, EFI manifolds into single exhaust, Carter YF, T-18B, Dana70 w/4.11, Flatbed dually w/dump bed. Great farm truck!
Image


Sun Dec 27, 2009 9:55 pm
Profile
VIP Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 6:54 pm
Posts: 8004
Location: Copley, OH
Post Re: 300 I6 Cam ideas
Crower Cams does a lot of custom cam design in their skunk works.
You really should contact them, or another cam grinder about your intended build.

_________________
1996 F-150 (tow missile)
1993 Mustang 5.0 (hot rod and auto-x monster)
1982 Tiga Formula Ford (SCCA racecar)
2013 Hyundai Elantra Coupe (daily driver)


Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:17 pm
Profile
Registered User

Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:40 pm
Posts: 75
Location: Mankato, MN
Post Re: 300 I6 Cam ideas
Changed my plans, going with 8.5:1 and a turbo. Will keep everyone up to date though.

_________________
1990 F-150, 4.9l, C6


Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:14 am
Profile
VIP Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 6:54 pm
Posts: 8004
Location: Copley, OH
Post Re: 300 I6 Cam ideas
Do yourself a favor. Start with a turbo map and develop the plan from there.
And remember that the head gaskets for a 300 won't hold high boost pressures

_________________
1996 F-150 (tow missile)
1993 Mustang 5.0 (hot rod and auto-x monster)
1982 Tiga Formula Ford (SCCA racecar)
2013 Hyundai Elantra Coupe (daily driver)


Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:26 pm
Profile
Registered User

Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:40 pm
Posts: 75
Location: Mankato, MN
Post Re: 300 I6 Cam ideas
I'm only gonna run 5 PSI boost, I'm sure it'll hold that.

_________________
1990 F-150, 4.9l, C6


Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:07 pm
Profile
VIP Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 10:25 pm
Posts: 4689
Location: FRENCHTOWN
Post Re: 300 I6 Cam ideas
Like nitrous, 5 psi has a habit of becomming 8 psi, then 10 then...

Build it to last at twice that boost then you wont be looking at oily puddles on the ground.

_________________
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING


Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:14 pm
Profile
Global Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 12:00 am
Posts: 1639
Location: Phoenix , AZ
Post Re: 300 I6 Cam ideas
FTF, whats your thought on this cam?
Comp Cams Hyd, XE274 rpm range 1800-6000
advertised 274-286
@ .050" 230-236
Valve lift .519 -.523
LSA 110

Very strong torque and throttle response, 2500+ stall

_________________
Image 300's make good truck motors....not race motors


Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:10 pm
Profile
Registered User

Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:40 pm
Posts: 75
Location: Mankato, MN
Post Re: 300 I6 Cam ideas
F100, what kind of vehicle would this cam be put in, just curious.

_________________
1990 F-150, 4.9l, C6


Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:02 pm
Profile
Global Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 12:00 am
Posts: 1639
Location: Phoenix , AZ
Post Re: 300 I6 Cam ideas
84FordVan wrote:
F100, what kind of vehicle would this cam be put in, just curious.

Mostly a street/strip vehicle .Check online at CompCams.com, Check their profiles for the sbf Exreme Energy grinds,I'm using the Extreme Energy 262 in my motor and someone else used a similar grind in a 200,motor put out 1 hp per cu.in. You'd would probably be better off with something within the lower rpm range for towing etc.

_________________
Image 300's make good truck motors....not race motors


Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:00 pm
Profile
VIP Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 6:54 pm
Posts: 8004
Location: Copley, OH
Post Re: 300 I6 Cam ideas
Or if he goes with a Turbo, a turbo-specific cam like Isky's 331-TA

_________________
1996 F-150 (tow missile)
1993 Mustang 5.0 (hot rod and auto-x monster)
1982 Tiga Formula Ford (SCCA racecar)
2013 Hyundai Elantra Coupe (daily driver)


Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:04 pm
Profile
VIP Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 10:25 pm
Posts: 4689
Location: FRENCHTOWN
Post Re: 300 I6 Cam ideas
82F100 wrote:
FTF, whats your thought on this cam?
Comp Cams Hyd, XE274 rpm range 1800-6000
advertised 274-286
@ .050" 230-236
Valve lift .519 -.523
LSA 110

Very strong torque and throttle response, 2500+ stall


That cam sounds like what I am looking for to run in my nostalgia altered car. Good zoom zoom and minimal valvetrain maintenance.

Send it to me.

_________________
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING


Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:23 pm
Profile
Global Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 12:00 am
Posts: 1639
Location: Phoenix , AZ
Post Re: 300 I6 Cam ideas
FTF, that grind is for a 351W, saw some other grinds especially in the FE section of their catalog same cam series( Xtreme Energy) that would be interesting to try in a 6.

_________________
Image 300's make good truck motors....not race motors


Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:07 am
Profile
VIP Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 10:25 pm
Posts: 4689
Location: FRENCHTOWN
Post Re: 300 I6 Cam ideas
My bubble has been burst.

_________________
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING


Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:09 am
Profile
Registered User

Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:40 pm
Posts: 75
Location: Mankato, MN
Post Re: 300 I6 Cam ideas
StrangeRanger, that's the exact cam I was looking to run. I actually stumbled on it by mistake when looking through cams on their site. Sounds like one heck of a deal, cam and kit all for 440$. Can't really go wrong there. Nice 114* lobe center on that one too, I like that.

_________________
1990 F-150, 4.9l, C6


Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:55 am
Profile
Global Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 12:00 am
Posts: 1639
Location: Phoenix , AZ
Post Re: 300 I6 Cam ideas
THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:
My bubble has been burst.

?????? :? :oopsie:

_________________
Image 300's make good truck motors....not race motors


Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:40 pm
Profile
VIP Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 6:54 pm
Posts: 8004
Location: Copley, OH
Post Re: 300 I6 Cam ideas
How about Isky's 321280
advertised duration 280°
duration @ .050" 224°
Valve lift .465
LSA 109°

Or Crower's 19205
advertised duration 284/290°
duration @ .050" 220/222°
Valve lift .509/517"
LSA 110°

_________________
1996 F-150 (tow missile)
1993 Mustang 5.0 (hot rod and auto-x monster)
1982 Tiga Formula Ford (SCCA racecar)
2013 Hyundai Elantra Coupe (daily driver)


Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:03 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ] 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group.
Designed by Vjacheslav Trushkin for Free Forum/DivisionCore.