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video-300 on dyno 
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Post video-300 on dyno
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMPnlEWW43w


Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:19 pm
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Post Re: video-300 on dyno
Nice! :thumbup:

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'83 F150 300, 0.030 over, Offy DP, Holley 4160/1848-1 465 cfm, Comp Cam 260H. P/P head, EFI exhaust manifolds, Walker Y Pipe, Super Cat, Turbo muffler, Recurved DSII, Mallory HyFire 6a, ACCEL Super Stock Coil, Taylor 8mm Wires, EFI plugs.


Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:24 pm
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Post Re: video-300 on dyno
:thumbup: :thumbup: wicked

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Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:14 pm
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Post Re: video-300 on dyno
Interesting, sure would like to know the details on the build. :D


Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:06 pm
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Post Re: video-300 on dyno
Link to builder's website was in leader of video. Sent him an e-mail requesting info about build and an invite to join our merry band of six maniacs.
Let see if there is a response.

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Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:02 pm
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Post Re: video-300 on dyno
This is the response I got.


We used a 6.200 Chevy rod and cut the crank down to fit. Modified a 351 N head flat top piston so it would guide the rod since the Chevy rod was narrower than the Ford. The valves were Chevy 1.94 intake valve and 1.6 exhaust. The valve springs were the 26918 Comp for a Hemi/ LS1 replacement. Flat,Solid lift .565/575 custom ground cam. Built the oil pan and pickup using parts from a Chevy Dirt track pan, the original 300 pan and LS1 oil pick up. Some port work on the head, Milled the head and decked the block to get the compression up to 12-1. We also used a few parts from other engines as needed. Modified a set of BB Chevy 1.7 rockers and custom built P/Rods & guide plates.



Think what has me wondering, if anyone remembers the col flashman build and the numbers the shop claimed...makes a person think...as they say, cant race dynos. :D Interesting build nontheless.


Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:20 am
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Post Re: video-300 on dyno
It looks like it made enough torque to lift the engine off of the right side jack stand.

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Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:50 am
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Post Re: video-300 on dyno
That jack stand did look a bit shaky.

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'83 F150 300, 0.030 over, Offy DP, Holley 4160/1848-1 465 cfm, Comp Cam 260H. P/P head, EFI exhaust manifolds, Walker Y Pipe, Super Cat, Turbo muffler, Recurved DSII, Mallory HyFire 6a, ACCEL Super Stock Coil, Taylor 8mm Wires, EFI plugs.


Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:40 pm
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Post Re: video-300 on dyno
Here is a reverse engineered scenario (using very abbreviated hand calc process) that could match the motor build pretty closely. Granted there are some assumptions I made. For instance I assumed the headers used 1 5/8 primaries, which effectively utilizes the 12:1 static compression to an even bigger gain, even if the exhaust lobe was not optimally placed and sized. I also assumed 300 cid. I also assumed the intake manifold was capable of flowing equal to the intake runner in the head casting (or close). Other assumptions too, that I use in valve event calcs.

One end of the scenario places the intake runner flow capability is in the 215 cfm (28") region, with intake duration (.050) in the mid/upper 230's, installed ~110 intake CL or so.

The other end of the scenario places the intake runner flow capability in the 235 cfm (28") region, with intake duration (.050") in the upper 220's/low 230's, installed around ~112 intake CL or so.

The thing that has me really wondering is that with 12: 1 static CR, a motor that makes peak hp in the 5100 region ought to be freakin coming unglued in its good cylinder filling rpms when the required static compression is nowhere near 12:1. Within this, some part of my assumptions are off base. The 1 hp/cid in the low 5000's shows good cylinder fill and appropriate use of port velocities (crossectional parameters) with nominal compression. However, with high compression you will see significant low and mid range that will carry thru into the upper range as well. I am not sure about the intake manifold, its an Offy, but dont know if a C series or Dual Port. the intake could be the real issue with the calcs not mimmicking the output as closely as I would have though. It also could be counterproductive with the high static compression, simply because the chamber has less fillable room. Pair that with a possible restrictive intake manifold, and it can hurt drastically. I have seen restricted motors respond negatively with high compression. though, this gets back to waht the flows and actual cam specs are.

BUT! I am not familiar with the chamber's contribution on these motors, with respect to flow, or cylinder combustion dynamics. So there could be some wide variation from reality to the engine/valve event process (also I did it pretty much by hand calc, as opposed to at home with my normal methods). I am looking at flow in and flow out, and the relationship of cylinder demands at this rpm range.

I enjoy these kinds of threads. It broadens my thoughts on these motors, more and more data points.

I wonder if we can get more cam data, as well as what intake was used, and header diameters. heck flow data too.

This is such a drastic change from the v8 stuff I normally dink with, too funny.

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It doesn't run quick at the track, but it gets long stares wherever it goes.
Never in a million years did I think I would have an antique hot rod truck, much less with its own name emblazoned on the front fender and a freakin' six cylinder for power;
but it is a Ford, it is old, and it is definitely one of the funnest vehicles I have driven.


Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:39 pm
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Post Re: video-300 on dyno
Buddy, considering the carb looks like it's in a north-south configuration, I'd assume the intake is an Offy "C". DP's want the carb mounted east-west.


Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:58 pm
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Post Re: video-300 on dyno
1951-F1-NC wrote:
Buddy, considering the carb looks like it's in a north-south configuration, I'd assume the intake is an Offy "C". DP's want the carb mounted east-west.



I did not notice. the DP definitely faces the head, and this one faces the front of the motor, so it pretty much has to be the C series or some similar version thru the years. thanks for pointing that out.

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It doesn't run quick at the track, but it gets long stares wherever it goes.
Never in a million years did I think I would have an antique hot rod truck, much less with its own name emblazoned on the front fender and a freakin' six cylinder for power;
but it is a Ford, it is old, and it is definitely one of the funnest vehicles I have driven.


Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:25 pm
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Post Re: video-300 on dyno
Interesting vid, but I did notice that it looked like they were running the engine without a PCV valve. (Caught a little smoke out the rear of the valvecover.)Then again, its a dyno...who the heck is gonna run the engine with emissions stuff on it?


Loved hearing it turn up...and what a wicked Idle!

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Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:06 pm
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Post Re: video-300 on dyno
I spoke to the builder. That engine was built with a budget of $4,500. I would like to know the total $ of machine work and parts.


Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:53 pm
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Post Re: video-300 on dyno
Buddy Rawls wrote:
Here is a reverse engineered scenario (using very abbreviated hand calc process) that could match the motor build pretty closely. Granted there are some assumptions I made. For instance I assumed the headers used 1 5/8 primaries, which effectively utilizes the 12:1 static compression to an even bigger gain, even if the exhaust lobe was not optimally placed and sized. I also assumed 300 cid. I also assumed the intake manifold was capable of flowing equal to the intake runner in the head casting (or close). Other assumptions too, that I use in valve event calcs.

One end of the scenario places the intake runner flow capability is in the 215 cfm (28") region, with intake duration (.050) in the mid/upper 230's, installed ~110 intake CL or so.

The other end of the scenario places the intake runner flow capability in the 235 cfm (28") region, with intake duration (.050") in the upper 220's/low 230's, installed around ~112 intake CL or so.

The thing that has me really wondering is that with 12: 1 static CR, a motor that makes peak hp in the 5100 region ought to be freakin coming unglued in its good cylinder filling rpms when the required static compression is nowhere near 12:1. Within this, some part of my assumptions are off base. The 1 hp/cid in the low 5000's shows good cylinder fill and appropriate use of port velocities (crossectional parameters) with nominal compression. However, with high compression you will see significant low and mid range that will carry thru into the upper range as well. I am not sure about the intake manifold, its an Offy, but dont know if a C series or Dual Port. the intake could be the real issue with the calcs not mimmicking the output as closely as I would have though. It also could be counterproductive with the high static compression, simply because the chamber has less fillable room. Pair that with a possible restrictive intake manifold, and it can hurt drastically. I have seen restricted motors respond negatively with high compression. though, this gets back to waht the flows and actual cam specs are.

BUT! I am not familiar with the chamber's contribution on these motors, with respect to flow, or cylinder combustion dynamics. So there could be some wide variation from reality to the engine/valve event process (also I did it pretty much by hand calc, as opposed to at home with my normal methods). I am looking at flow in and flow out, and the relationship of cylinder demands at this rpm range.

I enjoy these kinds of threads. It broadens my thoughts on these motors, more and more data points.

I wonder if we can get more cam data, as well as what intake was used, and header diameters. heck flow data too.

This is such a drastic change from the v8 stuff I normally dink with, too funny.


Intake =235cfm, exh=165, according to builder.


Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:35 pm
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Post Re: video-300 on dyno
From Demos Cams-

Nick the cam we used in the engine for D & A was grind #SL100-90-8A3.The specs on this cam are @.020"in.276 ex.280 @ .050"in.245 ex.248 Valve Lift In..534" ex.542" lobe separation is 108. Looking at the cam you are running now these cam are close.We do custom grinding so we can grind just about any thing you need.To recommend a cam I would need more information on your car. Thanks for contacting us and if you have any questions let me know.Thanks Steve Demos


Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:24 pm
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Post Re: video-300 on dyno
that comes in on my hand calc process right in the 300 hp region. But I show the exhaust events were too late. I am showing nearly equal relationship to the lobes if I use his intake lobe dimensions as my baseline, but I show the exhaust placement needs to be earlier. Could be they used head data for the valve event design, and not header/exh system capability for the exhaust lobe needs.

I now really wonder if the high compression could have been a hinderance. taking fillable room away from the cylinder, and not letting it go soon enough, can be a hinderance.

Now with that being said, for the 300cid motor to be able to achieve 310 hp, utilizing 235 cfm (on the inlet side), is going to require an inlet lobe with about 248 (.050) (imagine that!!). the changes from my original concepts are that I said that 12:1 was a large contirbutor to the power capability of the motor, therefore bringing the valve event demands in much softer. However, if I take the data at face value and do not attribute gains to the 12:1 high compression ratio, but rather assume that there may be filling problems due to decreased fillable volume, then the valve events contribution will have to do its full job. If that is the case, then the motor build up matches the engine calculation very closely. Once again, chamber behavior and the response of higher compression on this motor is really unknown to me.

On col Flashman's motor, we got to see decreased compression ratio (~10:1) and SIGNIFICANTLY milder valve events produce nearly equal total horsepower, but at a still lower rpm, as well as the huge bump in the midrange as that motor acheived 400ftlbs of torque that the compression should have enabled, helpfully supplementing the cylinder fill and dynamic compression. I have to assume col Flashman's motor in hindsight would have dropped output with a major increase in static compression.

I am really starting to theorize that for a mild build up of these motors you cannot use compression much over 10:1. the restriction on the inlet side (even with nicely ported heads) cannot take a lot of compression, there is just not good "fillability" (spur of the moment term). If the motor build-ups are really going to attempt taking on higher rpms, then those valve events will require the additional static compression to maintain good dynamic compression. BUT using high compression to supplement a mild set-up hinders cylinder fill.

this is wonderful stuff! thanks for making that build-up available for this recent 300 ford. More and more of this engine's characteristics are beginning to peak out from behind the door.

_________________
It doesn't run quick at the track, but it gets long stares wherever it goes.
Never in a million years did I think I would have an antique hot rod truck, much less with its own name emblazoned on the front fender and a freakin' six cylinder for power;
but it is a Ford, it is old, and it is definitely one of the funnest vehicles I have driven.


Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:29 pm
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