Any tips to installing cam gears and cam?

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Any tips to installing cam gears and cam?

Postby nti06 » Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:22 pm

I have a 300 from an 86 Bronco that im rebuilding. I ordered a cam and lifter kit from Sealed power. This kit came with the original style cam gears with the fiber teeth on the larger gear. Are there any tips for installing the cam and crank gears. I just realized i need the woodruff key (i think) for the crank shaft so I can install the gear.
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Re: Any tips to installing cam gears and cam?

Postby StrangeRanger » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:02 pm

Ditch the Phenolic gear :bang:
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Re: Any tips to installing cam gears and cam?

Postby Lazy JW » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:41 pm

X2, get a set of all-metal gears; you can choose between the all-steel type or the set which has an aluminum cam gear and a steel crank gear; I recommend the aluminum type from Cloyes as it is likely to be quieter than the all-steel.

You will also need the small "wedding ring" spacer from the old cam and also the camshaft thrust plate. The thrust plate is VERY brittle so do not put any force on it whatsoever when removing the old gear.

Heat that aluminum gear up to about 300º in the oven and it will slide right on there, make sure the spacer is in place though because when it cools down it's TIGHT!
Have fun,
Joe
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Re: Any tips to installing cam gears and cam?

Postby nti06 » Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:16 pm

so go with a 3 piece timing kit.


I went out today to try and remove the gear off the old cam so i can get the retainer plate and find that spacer you mentioned. which brings me to a new question. how do i get this old gear off?
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Re: Any tips to installing cam gears and cam?

Postby Lazy JW » Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:53 pm

nti06 wrote:so go with a 3 piece timing kit?........

Huh? Not quite sure what you mean there matey :?

You need an appropriate puller to remove the old cam gear; as cautioned above, do NOT pull on that thrust plate!
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Re: Any tips to installing cam gears and cam?

Postby nti06 » Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:51 pm

Cloyes calls it a 3 piece kit. Cam gear, crank gear, and chain.



So a large 3 jaw puller should take care of removing the old gear off the old cam?


In case the gear breaks while pulling, where could i find another thrust plate and spacer?
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Re: Any tips to installing cam gears and cam?

Postby StrangeRanger » Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:19 pm

There is no chain on a 300. Not in stock form, not in aftermarket, not ever. It cannot have one, the cam would turn backwards. It can ONLY use a 2 piece gearset.

Cloyes makes all-metal gear sets both OEM replacement and an aftermarket adjustable version. See page 21 of this for the aftermarket:

http://www.cloyes.com/pdf/Cloyes_2010_HP_Catalog.pdf

The ONLY source for the cam retainer plate and spacer is to cannibalize an existing engine
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Re: Any tips to installing cam gears and cam?

Postby Seattle Smitty » Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:20 pm

If the car is anything other than a lifetime keeper, why spend more money to replace a new phenolic gear? Mine went well over 100kmi before shreddiing.
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Re: Any tips to installing cam gears and cam?

Postby nti06 » Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:45 pm

Okay, well pulling the old gear off the old cam was not a success. The gear cracked, and i think it flexed against the thrust plate and broke it. So crap!
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Re: Any tips to installing cam gears and cam?

Postby The Plankster Prankster » Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:59 am

nti06 wrote:Okay, well pulling the old gear off the old cam was not a success. The gear cracked, and i think it flexed against the thrust plate and broke it. So crap!

find a junkyard cam and try it again.
when i did mine, breaking the gear was a given. i was careful to stay clear of the thrust plate while breaking off the gear (after breaking the first one i tried), and broke the gear all the way down to its steel hub. from there, i took my smallest 3-jaw puller on the little spline-teeth of said hub, and applied too much force breaking off the area one claw held against. so i set up again, and took a propane torch to that hub while applying torque to the puller. after maybe 30 seconds it started moving.
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Re: Any tips to installing cam gears and cam?

Postby F-250 Restorer » Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:08 am

Or, you take the entire cam and gear to a machine shop, and say, "do it." $20 should do it. Heck, you might want to splurge and tell them to put on the new gear too.
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Re: Any tips to installing cam gears and cam?

Postby mrbecker85 » Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:15 am

If you need a Thrust Plate and spacer. Check out this website, http://headbolts.com/ford6cylinder.html believe it or not they sell quite a bit of minor stuff for cheap..... i know i broke the thrust plate too. :P
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Re: Any tips to installing cam gears and cam?

Postby Lazy JW » Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:35 am

Thanks for posting that link, I bookmarked it.
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Re: Any tips to installing cam gears and cam?

Postby tom954x4 » Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:58 am

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Re: Any tips to installing cam gears and cam?

Postby Buddy Rawls » Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:04 pm

mrbecker85 wrote:If you need a Thrust Plate and spacer. Check out this website, http://headbolts.com/ford6cylinder.html believe it or not they sell quite a bit of minor stuff for cheap..... i know i broke the thrust plate too. :P



Thanks for that link. I got one on the way.
It doesn't run quick at the track, but it gets long stares wherever it goes.
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Re: Any tips to installing cam gears and cam?

Postby Buddy Rawls » Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:20 am

I got my thrust plate from the "headbolts.com" company. It is a cast iron model. The part number is the pf120, listed for the 240/300 six. I do not have diagrams of the parts or a measurment comparison.

Has anyone seen this thrust plate available in a cast iron version? Are the replacements typically cast iron? I have no experience with this particular motor. I will get some pics, and real measurments when I can.
It doesn't run quick at the track, but it gets long stares wherever it goes.
Never in a million years did I think I would have an antique hot rod truck, much less with its own name emblazoned on the front fender and a freakin' six cylinder for power;
but it is a Ford, it is old, and it is definitely one of the funnest vehicles I have driven.
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Re: Any tips to installing cam gears and cam?

Postby Lazy JW » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:43 am

When I broke mine some years ago it snapped like very brittle cast iron does.
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Re: Any tips to installing cam gears and cam?

Postby The Plankster Prankster » Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:58 pm

Lazy JW wrote:When I broke mine some years ago it snapped like very brittle cast iron does.

x2
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Re: Any tips to installing cam gears and cam?

Postby nti06 » Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:38 pm

I now have a new thrust plate from headbolts.com.

I also got their finish kit that comes with head dowels, crank and cam keys, and bolts for the thrust plate. Those little pieces that tie the job together.


I have a new question, is there a special process to installing the cam gear on the cam?
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Re: Any tips to installing cam gears and cam?

Postby bubba22349 » Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:32 pm

If you do a shearch you will find it covered by heating it up in the oven other choise is to take cam to a shop and have it pressed on :nod:
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Re: Any tips to installing cam gears and cam?

Postby The Plankster Prankster » Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:25 am

prep for the job by having the shaft firmly held in a vertical position not too far from the oven, turn the oven on and put the gear inside. IIRC the recomended temp was around 300, so i set my oven to 400. after its good and hot, prepare to suitable tool that will thread into the end of the camshaft and force the gear down if needed, then apply some lube to the thrust plate, set it properly on the end of the shaft, put on the heavy insulated leather gloves, take the gear from the oven, ensure it has the correct side up, note the position of the keyway so you can quickly align it to the key on the shaft, set it on there, and use the tool you set up to drive it home. once the gear touches the shaft, work FAST, as it will cool and get tight QUICKLY.
it is also helpful to prepare the camshaft by putting it in the freezer for an hour or so, as this will provide a little more clearance against the gear.
NEVER try to install that gear at room temperature.
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Re: Any tips to installing cam gears and cam?

Postby chico71 » Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:06 pm

should this thread get a sticky?
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Re: Any tips to installing cam gears and cam?

Postby rikard » Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:47 pm

With 215k miles now showing I'll probably be doing this job soon. In the past on my timing gear replacements I have purchased an adjustable set that lets you install the cam advanced 4 deg/retarded 4 deg or straight up. I think the cam in the EFI engines have a 4 deg retard for emissions purposes and I'm curious what effect installing the cam straight up or 4 deg advance would have on performance. Using the 1.7 chevy 6 rockers might help too but I don't want to pull the head. In the past advancing the cam on my SBC, 250 I6 and a 302 gave good low end torque. Interesting thread.

X2 on this becoming a sticky
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Re: Any tips to installing cam gears and cam?

Postby john-dickjr » Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:18 pm

Lazy JW wrote:X2, get a set of all-metal gears; you can choose between the all-steel type or the set which has an aluminum cam gear and a steel crank gear; I recommend the aluminum type from Cloyes as it is likely to be quieter than the all-steel.

You will also need the small "wedding ring" spacer from the old cam and also the camshaft thrust plate. The thrust plate is VERY brittle so do not put any force on it whatsoever when removing the old gear.

Heat that aluminum gear up to about 300º in the oven and it will slide right on there, make sure the spacer is in place though because when it cools down it's TIGHT!
Have fun,
Joe

i was searching on here on seen this post..old but i need some info..what is this (wedding ring) you are talking about
getting it done with 6 what it takes you to do with 8
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Re: Any tips to installing cam gears and cam?

Postby john-dickjr » Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:32 pm

found it
getting it done with 6 what it takes you to do with 8
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Re: Any tips to installing cam gears and cam?

Postby woodbutcher » Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:04 pm

:? At the risk of sounding like a complete ass(which I can do quite easily at times)could a new thrust washer be made from another type of metal?Thanks.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
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Re: Any tips to installing cam gears and cam?

Postby StrangeRanger » Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:04 pm

Thrust washer?
Are you asking about the wedding ring spacer or the retainer plate? The spacer is steel, exact composition and hardness unknown. It could safely be duplicated in a very good grade of alloy steel such as 4140 HT but that's probably overkill.

The retainer plate is cast iron, harder than the hinges of HeII and twice as brittle. A good rule of thumb is that whenever anything is made out of a material other than mild steel, there is a reason for it. In this case I suspect that the grade of cast iron used was the least expensive material which provided the required combination of lubricity and hardness. If there were no lubricity requirement,it could probably have been made from case-hardened steel.
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Re: Any tips to installing cam gears and cam?

Postby tiapetra » Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:28 pm

The spacer is sandwiched tight between the camshaft land and the cam gear. there should be no movement, so I doubt the necessity beyond mild steel is necessary, although better steel is usually not a downside.
The inside diameter of the spacer has a radius so as no to interfere with the radius of the camshaft.

The thickness is critical. Measure both the thrust plate and the spacer thickness. The difference will be the end play in the camshaft. Ford specs are from .001" to .008".
Either the thrust plate of the spacer may have to be surface ground to meet specs.

Here is a pic of one. Hope it helps.

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i242/ ... pacer1.jpg
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Re: Any tips to installing cam gears and cam?

Postby woodbutcher » Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:11 am

:oops: Hi SR.Retainer was what I was thinking of.My bad.I don`t need one.I was just wondering if a person could fab one up from something laying around the shop.Thanks for the reply.
And to tiapetra.Thanks for the pics.
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