Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

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Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby 80broncoman » Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:26 am

I wasn't watching but listenting while i was here at my computer.
Next Week?? I'm gonna look online to see what i can find.

Nothing found yet
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby Crash5291 » Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:34 pm

As per the website:

Buildup of Ford's Classic Inline Six

After rescuing a 300 inline from the boneyard, the HorsePower guys will show how to completely prep and machine the block and assemble the cylinder head.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby keysrat » Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:52 pm

9:30 AM ET Saturday on Spike TV.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby nightwatchman59 » Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:32 am

It is my hope that the talent and experience I have found HERE was used to produce the program. Powerblock has been informative w/ regard to "what's new", but pricey at times.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby motzingg » Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:34 am

http://www.powerblocktv.com/episodes/HP2013-18/a-buildup-of-fords-classic-inline-six


so this is their parts list... what are they going to be using the chebby heads and exhaust manifolds for?!?!

or is it a typo... i hope its not a typo. usually these shows go by tried and true bolt on type stuff, i cant imagine they are going to cut and weld a chevy head to go on the 6!!
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:17 am

I don't think that is their parts list. It also lists small block exhaust manifolds and (tell me they're kidding) a 950 csm throttle body with 600 hp nitrous capabilities.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby 80broncoman » Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:50 pm

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:I don't think that is their parts list. It also lists small block exhaust manifolds and (tell me they're kidding) a 950 csm throttle body with 600 hp nitrous capabilities.


Wonder what intake manifold they are going to use. ??

That is odd. While it doesn't explain the manifolds maybe they are welding some GM heads together for a 300??
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby Fordman75 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:41 pm

More likely they are also doing some work on a sbc or just showing the sbc parts at the end of the show.

What I didn't care too much for is they had .060" over pistons listed. I hope the block actually needed to be bored that much and they didn't just do it for a couple extra cubes.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:20 am

Nice job Horsepower TV - way to go building a six!

As I watched there were just a few teeny weenie things I would have done had I been the producer.

One of the early pics of the six build up had headers and an aluminum intake - except it wasn't a Ford 300.
The lifters the host removed were worn almost flat. This would have been a good time to explain that lifters have a convex shape and wear into the lobes.
If the block freezes the most likely area for the block to crack is the bottom of the bores. If the crack isn't too long it can be repaired (ask me how I know).
Before cleaning remove all the threaded plugs at the ends of the block. You can save money cleaning by taking the block to a quarter car wash. Take a can of Simple Green (or equivalent cleaner) and some brushes and wash it out yourself.
I also like to beburr and grind the outside of the block smooth. It will make it easier to handle, easier to clean, and look great when painted.
During the head prep work I was disappointed that they did not mention smoothing the bowls and grinding out the exhaust port thermactor bumps. Pity. That is going to costthem on the dyno. Likewise a simple 30 degree back cut on the intakes.
And on the valve job a third 60 degree back cut to help blend the bowl and narrow up the seat width into spec would have been nice.
I hope they get rid of the phenolic gears and also mention that those flat tops will likely require premium fuel.

I'm really looking forward to the dyno test and I can't wait to see what manifolds they use. That way we could have speculated all week on how much power that baby will make on the next episode.

Overall I'd give them an 8 on a scale of 1 - 10. Great show.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby Fordman75 » Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:21 pm

I was kind of disappointed. They didn't do much of anything to the head.

I noticed a few things during the 300 information too. besides the picture you mentioned. The first picture they showed was a small 6 not a 300. They said the 300 became the base engine in 78 instead of 75. And the kept showing pictures of a Ranger which never came with the 300.


I don't have high hopes for the dyno results with what they have done to the engine.
Last edited by Fordman75 on Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby 80broncoman » Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:19 pm

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:Nice job Horsepower TV - way to go building a six!

........
During the head prep work I was disappointed that they did not mention smoothing the bowls and grinding out the exhaust port thermactor bumps. Pity. That is going to costthem on the dyno. Likewise a simple 30 degree back cut on the intakes.
And on the valve job a third 60 degree back cut to help blend the bowl and narrow up the seat width into spec would have been nice.
I hope they get rid of the phenolic gears and also mention that those flat tops will likely require premium fuel.


I'm really looking forward to the dyno test and I can't wait to see what manifolds they use. That way we could have speculated all week on how much power that baby will make on the next episode.

Overall I'd give them an 8 on a scale of 1 - 10. Great show.


I was thinking the very same thing about the bowls and the flat tops.
I think pinning the studs is fine for a hyd cam in a 300.

I'd like to see dyno run with a completly stock 1bbl and log exh manifold before they go to the 4bbl and whatever exh they use.

Wonder how low of a RM their dyno will show results?
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby FordBoy300 » Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:43 pm

They also said ford discontinued the 300 six in 96 WRONG it was in 97 when the f150 was redesigned!
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby Soldmy66 » Sat Oct 19, 2013 2:19 pm

80broncoman wrote:
THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:Nice job Horsepower TV - way to go building a six!

........
During the head prep work I was disappointed that they did not mention smoothing the bowls and grinding out the exhaust port thermactor bumps. Pity. That is going to costthem on the dyno. Likewise a simple 30 degree back cut on the intakes.
And on the valve job a third 60 degree back cut to help blend the bowl and narrow up the seat width into spec would have been nice.
I hope they get rid of the phenolic gears and also mention that those flat tops will likely require premium fuel.


I'm really looking forward to the dyno test and I can't wait to see what manifolds they use. That way we could have speculated all week on how much power that baby will make on the next episode.

Overall I'd give them an 8 on a scale of 1 - 10. Great show.


I was thinking the very same thing about the bowls and the flat tops.
I think pinning the studs is fine for a hyd cam in a 300.

I'd like to see dyno run with a completly stock 1bbl and log exh manifold before they go to the 4bbl and whatever exh they use.

Wonder how low of a RM their dyno will show results?


With respect to head prep, did they not say they were going to send it out for a valve job and porting -- I thought so???
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby Fordman75 » Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:19 pm

Soldmy66 wrote:With respect to head prep, did they not say they were going to send it out for a valve job and porting -- I thought so???


I didn't hear that. If they were going to send it out then why did they grind the valve seats and lap the valves?
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby Soldmy66 » Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:16 pm

Fordman75 wrote:
Soldmy66 wrote:With respect to head prep, did they not say they were going to send it out for a valve job and porting -- I thought so???


I didn't hear that. If they were going to send it out then why did they grind the valve seats and lap the valves?


Can't say.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby jack orchard » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:19 pm

What do you guys know about the cam. I thought they said it was a Comp 219 degree cam. Maybe i heard wrong. I thought Comp cams were 252, 260, 268, etc. Thanks, jack
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby Fordman75 » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:47 pm

Their website said it was a Comp 268.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby jack orchard » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:59 pm

I replayed the show. They did say 219 degrees, .456 lift
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby Fordman75 » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:09 pm

jack orchard wrote:I replayed the show. They did say 219 degrees, .456 lift


Scroll down the page with the video and it says it's the comp 268.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby StrangeRanger » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:43 pm

219° @ .050" LIFT

That was pretty much a half hour of my life that I'll never get back. :roll:
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby Baron Von Ottomatic » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:50 pm

I would liked to have seen them port and prep that head for a set of SBC valves. They're leaving a lot of meat on the bone.

Seeing the dyno results at the end of it all should be pretty enlightening though. Everyone always asks, "how much power will it make if I do x, y, and z?"
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:34 pm

Most of us seasoned veterans of this web site can pick apart the show for its inaccuracies and omissions. But to the unwashed masses of car enthusiasts I think it may have shed a lot of light on working with inline sixes - particularly the 300 - as a wise alternative to a V8.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby Asa » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:41 pm

There is only so much work they can do to the engine before they start spreading out the build across multiple episodes. I imagine they'd hit the point of diminishing returns fairly quickly.
However, if enough people write in, later in the season they might mention how much of the power is released when you work on the head. Then they might do another episode later on.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby Fordman75 » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:55 pm

Asa wrote:There is only so much work they can do to the engine before they start spreading out the build across multiple episodes. I imagine they'd hit the point of diminishing returns fairly quickly.
However, if enough people write in, later in the season they might mention how much of the power is released when you work on the head. Then they might do another episode later on.



But it is a multiple episode build. So why not get into it some more! :D

But it is still good to see a 300 build on a show.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby motzingg » Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:32 pm

pretty good show, i think they understand their audience and went for middle of the road approach. most people who are building a big six are probably looking for a stock-ish replacement for a classic car or truck, so a stock-ish rebuild makes sense. Even though it was pretty much just standard rebuild stuff, its still good to see and totally attainable by the average garage dude with a minmum of fancy tools.


also, do you usually heat the small end that much? it looks like it got pretty blue. Usually when i heat fit bearings i try not to go beyond 'straw' colored.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:18 pm

Heating the small ends was standard procedure at Engine Build-up, FoMoCo R&E. They had a little more elaborate burner system with multiple heads. I also wondered about that but I've never heard of a small end rod failure attributed to too much heating during pin install.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby MechRick » Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:17 pm

They will turn a bit blue at 400f (the recommended temp for slipping pins). Doesn't hurt anything. I've done it with two propane torches, an infrared gun and some quick hand work.

Machine shops will sometimes go warmer to prevent the pin from getting stuck in the wrong place. I've had it happen to me, and it's a pain in the *ss. You have to make a fixture to support the piston and use a press to slide the pin into position.

Like FTF said, the small end of the rod usually doesn't break. With Fords, at least in my 27 years of experience, it's usually the rod bolts that let go, which is why all of my rebuilds get ARP bolts.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby F-250 Restorer » Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:58 pm

It will be interesting to see how flat tops, a comp 268 cam, intake and header effects the hp. I'll bet you $10 they throw a DP on it, sadly.

One aspect that did surprise me was the cam choice after mentioning the 300's 'legendary' low end torque. 'Whoops, no more low end torque.'
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby motzingg » Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:11 am

why is the DP 'sad'... just because on a horsepower build you would rather see the open plane, or is the DP otherwise flawed?

at $1500 this could be the cheapest per hp build ever, except for maybe a SBC. Might beat the SBC as cheapest per ft-lb.


good to know on the ARP rod bolts, i'll have to keep that in mind, i had ruled them out as being unnecessary for a stock-ish build. What kills them, RPM? What RPM do they let go?
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby F-250 Restorer » Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:49 pm

F-250 Restorer wrote:It will be interesting to see how flat tops, a comp 268 cam, intake and header effects the hp. I'll bet you $10 they throw a DP on it, sadly.

One aspect that did surprise me was the cam choice after mentioning the 300's 'legendary' low end torque. 'Whoops, no more low end torque.'


For an engine without a ported head, I believe a DP is fine. But with an engine that has a cam and other mods, like a ported head, all working together to cycle more air in and out, it seems foolish (a step in the wrong direction) to use a DP that constricts the primary runners to less than half their capacity.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:34 pm

F-250 Restorer wrote:It will be interesting to see how flat tops, a comp 268 cam, intake and header effects the hp. I'll bet you $10 they throw a DP on it, sadly.

One aspect that did surprise me was the cam choice after mentioning the 300's 'legendary' low end torque. 'Whoops, no more low end torque.'

Maybe a different camshaft would be most beneficial for low end, but I bet even with that cam the torque curve will be higher at low speed with a good carb and aluminum intake than with a stock cam, stock intake and carb. That seems to be the case on hot rods I have with similar builds.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby CNC-Dude » Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:37 pm

A group of us a few years back over on Inliners did some very involved dyno builds and tests over there with several of the Chevy Inline engines, the 292 and 250. We made over 200 dyno pulls combined and tested the results of many cam, intakes and various stages of cylinder head porting and valve size combos,and even Langdon's dual exhaust manifolds vs. headers. The very mildest baseline test on the 292, which was basically a stock engine with unported head, stock cam but had an Offy single plane intake made 300 Ft lbs of torque starting below 1800 RPM and carried it well past 3000 RPM. It would be nice if someone did this thorough of a test with the Ford 300 engine, im sure it would provide a lot of answers and solve some mystery's about its capability.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby 1951-F1-NC » Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:44 am

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:I don't think that is their parts list. It also lists small block exhaust manifolds and (tell me they're kidding) a 950 csm throttle body with 600 hp nitrous capabilities.


My take on the "parts List" is that is a list of the parts that were mentioned on the entire show, not just the big six build.

This is very timely for me as I am just about ready to tear into one of my 300's for the '51 F1 project. Anyone have any experience with pinning the studs? I have one head that has pulled a stud (Previous Owner issue with starting fluid, I think) and plan to do this instead of machining for screw-ins.

Thanks.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby motzingg » Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:37 am

I might be baised because I run machine tools a lot, but i think tapping the studs would be pretty easy. You would want to make a tap block (or have a machine shop make one for you) with hard tool steel. Both holes, one sized for clearance in the drill bit, one sized for clearance in the tap. Then drill and tap them by hand. Even better if you could make the block so it bolts to the stud next to it.

I'm sure the alignment has to be pretty close, but doing it by hand you could definitely get within spec, especially since you're following a pre-existing hole.

Even paying a machine shop to do it in a bridgeport probably wouldn't be that expensive, 50 maybe 60 bucks, should take less than an hour including setup.


I pulled one out when i was timing my engine and it backfired. It came out about 1/16" and when it tapped in, took suprisingly little force. It scares the crap out of me knowing how easy they are to pull out. Plus while you're at it, you can use the chev rocker studs and make your life easy for the rocker install.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby motzingg » Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:39 am

a third option would be to use a set screw.

something about drilling through the stud just doesn't set well with me, although i'm sure it is plenty strong
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:05 pm

Drilling a hole in the stud weakens the stud. But the smooth part of the stud is below the threaded portion is stronger than the threaded part because threads also weaken the stud. I worry that the hole may cause the stud to break, but I worry about everything so if you are less neurotic than me I would say that if you are using a cam that is not too aggressive on ramp rates and doesn't have a lot of lift (e.g. a solid roller cam) it is OK to pin the studs. Just follow these guidelines:

Keep the pin size small - like 3/32" or less.
Put the pin squarely through the middle of the stud.
Place the pin sufficiently far enough below the top of the pin boss - one stud diameter is enough.
If the pin has already pulled out coat it with Locktite Stud Mount compound and press it back in place then pin it.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby MechRick » Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:03 pm

jack orchard wrote:I replayed the show. They did say 219 degrees, .456 lift

Fordman75 wrote:Their website said it was a Comp 268.


the 268H (advertised) is 219@.050"

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:Maybe a different camshaft would be most beneficial for low end, but I bet even with that cam the torque curve will be higher at low speed with a good carb and aluminum intake than with a stock cam, stock intake and carb.


I ran the 268 with a DP. It was a bit lazy below 1500 but was studly at 2000.

I'm beginning to think the best street (as in pump gas) cam for the 300 is the Comp 260.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby MechRick » Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:10 pm

motzingg wrote:good to know on the ARP rod bolts, i'll have to keep that in mind, i had ruled them out as being unnecessary for a stock-ish build. What kills them, RPM? What RPM do they let go?


https://www.dropbox.com/s/m1kdnpxiz4yhj60/400rp.jpg

That one let go at idle.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bbmr90nijociru8/mangled.jpg

Can't really see the bolts there, but the cap had them intact.

I think it's a quality control issue. Probably microscopic cracks in the metal, but I'm guessing.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby Fordman75 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:15 pm

Guys just a little warning if anyone is thinking about using those pistons they listed. The link they have provided is:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem-s ... /overview/

They are a shorter compression height then a 300 piston. To me the specs on them look like 240 pistons. They will sit almost a quarter inch below the deck surface. So even though they are flat tops they will actually lower your compression on a 300. :roll:





MechRick wrote:
Fordman75 wrote:Their website said it was a Comp 268.


the 268H (advertised) is 219@.050"


I know that, I've owned a Comp 268 cam in the past. :thumbup:
Last edited by Fordman75 on Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby 80broncoman » Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:33 pm

pinning studs is great way to save money on a engine that only see single valve springs and moderate lift amounts.

As far as doing them yourselves it can be very easy. 99% of the time the bottom dia of the stud is 3/8.
3/8th hole needs no drill, as it is ready for a 7/16th tap.
BUT you do need to mill the top of the stud boss. on most fords its .230 to .300 of an inch that needs removed. many auto tool companys had them but there are getting more scarce as time goes on.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby motzingg » Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:50 am

80broncoman wrote:BUT you do need to mill the top of the stud boss. on most fords its .230 to .300 of an inch that needs removed. many auto tool companys had them but there are getting more scarce as time goes on.



that is interesting... but i don't understand why that would be? does the chevy rocker need more clearance or something? Doesn't it just float held up against the pivot washer by the spring/pushrod force?

i wonder if you could get away with doing it with a spot-facing tool by hand? I have a mill but am trying to think of ways to avoid putting it in the mill.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:14 am

There are two ways to upgrade studs - pinning the stock ones or installing threaded screw-in studs.

For the screw-in threaded studs there is usually a hex head used to tighten the stud into the (now threaded) hole. this hex head is about 1/4 inch tall and usually has a large fillet radius above it to reduce stress risers. If the stud boss is not milled down this hex head / fillet radius would interfere with the bottom of the rocker arm when valve lash is set.

When pinning the studs the boss need not be milled down.

Two different solutions to the problem of pulling studs.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:19 am

motzingg wrote:
80broncoman wrote:

i wonder if you could get away with doing it with a spot-facing tool by hand? I have a mill but am trying to think of ways to avoid putting it in the mill.

By hand the depth of cut is going to be hit-or-miss. Don't be afraid to do it in the mill. My Jet mill does not have a tilting head so I just made two shim blocks from hardwood that have the correct stud boss angle built in. That makes it easy to clamp the head down, set the cutter depth, and sweep across the bosses.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby CNC-Dude » Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:29 pm

motzingg wrote:
80broncoman wrote:BUT you do need to mill the top of the stud boss. on most fords its .230 to .300 of an inch that needs removed. many auto tool companys had them but there are getting more scarce as time goes on.



that is interesting... but i don't understand why that would be? does the chevy rocker need more clearance or something? Doesn't it just float held up against the pivot washer by the spring/pushrod force?

i wonder if you could get away with doing it with a spot-facing tool by hand? I have a mill but am trying to think of ways to avoid putting it in the mill.


I worked in a race engine machine shop for over 15 years and the main reason you would need to mill the bosses down is because in addition too the screw-in studs, you might be installing guide plates, and you need to reduce the height of the boss to compensate. Or you are converting from pedestal mount rockers to stud mount. It also can be is necessary to trim them down some to allow for the large hex at the base of the screw-in stud. Trying to do this by hand isn't advisable, it can be real easy to tap the hole crooked or mill it at an angle other than what is needed with a spot face tool.

The main issues I saw with pinned rocker studs is that if you feel the need for pinning them, you also need a better quality stud than the 20-30 year old stud that your trying to pin, and most people don't change them. I have seen a lot of them broken off in the head, some flush with the rocker boss and others right through where they were pinned. Its also a problem when the person who pinned them originally didn't do it correctly and only drilled part of the way into the boss creating a blind hole so you couldn't remove the roll pins when they wanted to upgrade to screw-in stud later on. Half the cost of installing screw-in studs is in removing them, so you can save a fair amount by taking them out yourself and them a machine shop can drill and tap them for you a bit cheaper at least.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby 80broncoman » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:45 pm

I think the mill is the best way And I'd leave the two end studs in place so you can check cutter alginment before removing them.

Here are 2 examples of cutters for drills
Here is one you can leave the studs in place with (caution HIGH DOLLAR!!!) $165 cutter +$35 for 3/8ths pilot
http://www.cylinderheadsupply.com/kl9311.html

And here is the type I have used in the past (sold by comp cams)
http://www.amazon.com/Competition-Cams- ... B000A8MQSG
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby F-250 Restorer » Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:54 pm

CNC-Dude wrote:
motzingg wrote:
80broncoman wrote:BUT you do need to mill the top of the stud boss. on most fords its .230 to .300 of an inch that needs removed. many auto tool companys had them but there are getting more scarce as time goes on.



that is interesting... but i don't understand why that would be? does the chevy rocker need more clearance or something? Doesn't it just float held up against the pivot washer by the spring/pushrod force?

i wonder if you could get away with doing it with a spot-facing tool by hand? I have a mill but am trying to think of ways to avoid putting it in the mill.


I worked in a race engine machine shop for over 15 years and the main reason you would need to mill the bosses down is because in addition too the screw-in studs, you might be installing guide plates, and you need to reduce the height of the boss to compensate. Or you are converting from pedestal mount rockers to stud mount. It also can be is necessary to trim them down some to allow for the large hex at the base of the screw-in stud. Trying to do this by hand isn't advisable, it can be real easy to tap the hole crooked or mill it at an angle other than what is needed with a spot face tool.

The main issues I saw with pinned rocker studs is that if you feel the need for pinning them, you also need a better quality stud than the 20-30 year old stud that your trying to pin, and most people don't change them. I have seen a lot of them broken off in the head, some flush with the rocker boss and others right through where they were pinned. Its also a problem when the person who pinned them originally didn't do it correctly and only drilled part of the way into the boss creating a blind hole so you couldn't remove the roll pins when they wanted to upgrade to screw-in stud later on. Half the cost of installing screw-in studs is in removing them, so you can save a fair amount by taking them out yourself and them a machine shop can drill and tap them for you a bit cheaper at least.


Thanks for explaining that regarding milling down the boss. I have wondered about that for some time. I got lucky. I am using an 82 head. I had screw in studs installed before I knew anything about these engines. The shop did not mill the bosses, but since I did not use guide plates I didn't need it done.

BUT, I would add: make sure the shop installs grade 8 studs. I learned that lesson because I was using Isky valve springs with 134 lbs at the seat! When I changed to 1.7 comp racing roller rockers, 3/8" shaft for a 409 bbc, it sheared off the top of two of my studs. At freeway speed I was extremely lucky I did not suck a valve. I now use ARP sbc studs, about $55, with the large hex head, and it does not interfere with the rocker movement. I also removed the inner spring from the Isky springs to give me a respectable 117 lbs. If you're installing the studs yourself, I would add that the threads enter the coolant passages, so use plenty of loctite on the threads. Oh yeah, I thought it prudent to switch back to the oem rockers. However, if someone comes out with a transparent valve cover then I'll have to reinstall the rollers.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby motzingg » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:25 pm

sometimes despite my best efforts of collecting data online, figuring stuff on the computer, and reams of various notes, I end up having to just dive in and figure it out.

i think this will be one of those situations, get an extra head and plan on taking some time to compare the various components.

i was thinking of just using hardware-store grade 8 automotive studs and turning them in with 2 nuts. hadn't thought of the specific rocker studs where they have the hex base. I guess since you're not putting full tension on them, like you would in a conventional clamping application, you would need the land to ensure they are square and torqued in, otherwise you'd need a jam nut or something like that, which would take a lot of room.


I have all the mills and everything you'd need, just a matter of being kinda lazy/ doing it in the truck without pulling the head. I still think a tap block would get you plenty straight, but you'd be dropping chips into the coolant passages and oil galley, and by the time you take the hood off and all that, taking the head off is pretty minor.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby xrwagon » Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:15 am

i watched part one of the 300 build today, when is part two on?
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby bubba22349 » Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:56 am

Part II is tomorrow and probably is replayed on Sunday too, the time depends on your locale cable or Sat. provider you will need to check your listings in your area.
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Re: Powerblock TV to do a 300 six build up !!

Postby Fordman75 » Sat Nov 02, 2013 2:12 am

bubba22349 wrote:Part II is tomorrow and probably is replayed on Sunday too, the time depends on your locale cable or Sat. provider you will need to check your listings in your area.



Really? My listings said tomorrow is a lsx race engine build. I didn't realize the 300 was in the ls engine family. :D
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