T-Bucket Frame Dimensions?

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T-Bucket Frame Dimensions?

Postby Guest » Fri Feb 14, 2003 1:27 am

Going to be working up a frame for my T soon. Does anyone have a t-bucket they could measure for me? Needs to be a 26 or 27, the earlier frames are different, I think.

Specifically, I want the length of frame, width of frame, distance from firewall to front of frame and to the radiator. This is so I can change it to allow enough room to stuff a 300 in there. I'm assuming also that you're rear-end is centered under the rear crossmember, if not could you also tell me how far forward or back you've got it. Also, I am assuming that the frame is 2"x3" with 3" tube for front and rear crossmembers, if otherwise let me know.

If you can do it, I'd really appreciate it. If not, no worries. I'll just have to wait till I can get to a car show to find out. Thanks a bunch!
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Postby MustangSix » Fri Feb 14, 2003 10:06 am

Biggest difference between the '27 and the earlier variations is the longer wheelbase.

There's some good illustrations of a buildup at http://members.tripod.com/~Jackak10/tbucket.html
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Postby Thad » Fri Feb 14, 2003 6:39 pm

No need to re-invent a 74 yo wheel, go to "www.tbuckets.com"
They have chassis kits and just about everything else.
Bet if you talked with them no problem to meet your needs.

There is an advert pg 22, April "Street Rodder". One of the featured cars is a "T"
Enjoy.
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and there are those who do more than dream. ><> = +
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Postby Guest » Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:38 pm

The pics are good, but without dimensions of little practical value, thanks for the try though.

The frames currently on the market are all for the small block chevy. Trying to use one of those frames with a six is probably not going to have enough room. Also most have a kick-up in the rear to provide axle room. This kick-up goes into the turtle-deck or the pickup bed. As I have a touring I need that space for the back seat. Going to have to be a perfectly flat frame. Speedway has them but I don't want to spend 300 or so plus freight just to have to cut and lengthen it.

Thanks again.
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Postby Guest » Sat Feb 15, 2003 3:42 am

can't help with the aftermarket stuff, but i can supply you with dimensions from an original frame. wheelbase for the 26/7 did not change from earlier models. the rear crossmember was widened for the "new" body design. frame length remained same. the body mounts on frame were changed quite a bit as well as the front fender to frame mounts. the "tt trucks" have a longer and thicker frame, but it is the same width as a car frame. the frame material is heavier too.
engine dimensions remained same from about 1910 through end of production in 1927. the really early cars (1908-1912) were changed some as design improvements were found and implemented.
i have an "early" frame that i can take pics of for you, and i think one of my friends has a 26/7 frame i can get pics of too.
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Postby Thad » Sat Feb 15, 2003 2:08 pm

IIRC the "T" had transverse "buggy springs" in the back.
The kits have coils, and in your car the kick-up would be too high.
OK, the lowest set up I can remember is 1/4 elliptic springs w/ trailing link locator bars. With that design it would be possible to have the frame end before the rear axle and the only "kick up" would be in the last cross member just in front of the rear axle. This "kick up" would be to clear drive shaft during suspension movement.
Another option would be torsion bar suspension.
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Postby Guest » Sat Feb 15, 2003 5:17 pm

I was pretty sure the 26-7 was wider just didn't know how much. I actually have the original frame that I'm going to use as a re-assembly jig. The real problem is how long to make it.

The coil spring setup will work without the kickup. Quite a few are built that way. The purpose of the kick up is to get the car level and low. Myself, I kinda like the stinkbug stance. Was planning on using a drop straight axle with traverse spring in the front (typical T) and coil overs in the rear with axle located directly under the rear crossmember. I will have to be careful to keep it from getting too high, but shouldn't be too difficult.
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Postby addo » Sat Feb 15, 2003 6:14 pm

What about shorter springs boosted by airbags (for effect, not looks)?
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Postby Guest » Sun Feb 16, 2003 11:21 pm

From the firewall to the center of the rear crossmember/axle is 74.5 inches, give or take. From the center of the front crossmember to the back side of the fanshroud would be 8.5 inches. This leaves about 2.5 inches in between the shroud and front crossmember. If you add all that up and allow 37 inches for the motor (300 cid v belt) and allow that the crossmember tubes are 2.5 inch dia. (I measured from the center, remember), the frame would be 122.5 inches long. However that leaves no room for a fan, or any space between the motor and body. Add 6 inches or so and the frame should finish at 128.5 inches, or 10 feet 8.5 inches.

The place I'm going to get the steel from, sells in 20 foot sticks. Looks like I'm going to end up with two extra peices just over nine feet long. There's a chance I might be able to get it at 11 feet, but it's not real likely.

Still those should be good numbers to work with if anyone else desires a T-six. I'll try to remember to post the width when I get a chance to measure the stock frame.
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Postby Ranchero63 » Fri Feb 21, 2003 12:53 pm

I'm gonna pass along some advice I've learned while building my roadster, which isn't finished yet.

There are alot of different variables involved when building cars from scratch. Your best friend is the "mockup". That's the only way you can be sure the parts you have chosen will work together. My experience with the "kit" type t-buckets is that either the chassis' are too short (Total Performance,CCR) or too long (Spirit Ind.) even with a chevy V8. Don't try and modify there ugly designs to fit your engine.

Start from scratch, and figure out what works. Be sure to have the wheels and tires you intend to use. I think you should begin your mockup with a Model A wheelbase of 103.5". That is with a spring over axle frontend, with the axle underneath the frame. That is how mine is setup. I'm using a stock Model A chassis with a 6 inch rear kickup, tranverse spring over rear axle. Front is stock crossmember, reverse eye spring and 4 inch drop axle. It's forties style, so it's probably a little too high for you and it's not gonna give you enough engine room.

So, you need more engine room and you want it lower. Start with the front suspension. You need to get that axle out from under the frame. The axle hitting the frame is the limiting factor. Go suicide, but keep the spring on top if using a deep drop axle. For a shallow drop you can put the spring behind. You can't forget basic suspension priciples. A deep drop and spring behind coupled with a suicide mount is gonna give you scrub line problems. Keep the steering in mind also. A lot of those kits have the tie rod in front of the axle. That's no good, the Ackerman is all fouled up.

Ditching the Model A crossmember (theoretically)in favor of a suicide mount will increase the wheelbase, but not the overall length of the frame. It will give you more engine room and get you lower. If you look at a Total Performance type car you'll see that they are suicide front suspension but they kept the shorter wheelbase. The proportions are all wrong. The Spirit type chassis' have the same suspension but they also extended the frame. Even with a longer six cylinder motor, there is too much of a gap between the radiator and the front end. The wheels are just floating in space. Also use a falcon/mustang radiator, it will provide enough cooling and is thinner than the street rod type radiators, plus it's 1/4 the cost.

Now back to the rear. With a 26-27 roadster body you can't change the axle centerline from the stock position. These bodies have wheelwells, if you move the axle centerline, it will look funny. You want it low but you need to factor in the trunk. Increasing the kickup will get you lower, but it will eat up all the trunk space. On my chassis I have a stock spring on top Model A spring and crossmember with a 6 inch kickup. I takes up a lot of trunk space, and isn't all that low (the body is also channelled 4 inches by the way). If I want it lower I have the option of lowering the spring (reverse eyes, dearching) or I can move the spring behind the axle and down. This would necessitate extending the chassis but not the wheelbase. Doing so would lower the car and increase trunk space. For coil over shocks, these priciples apply with a little alteration.

I mentioned my body is channelled. In case you don't know, it's the lowering of the body over the frame rails. This lowers the overall profile of the car but takes up valuable interior space in the process. It's not a problem in my situation because I'm short and skinny and I'm planning on running a low profile seat. If you're tall and like a cushy seat, then you have a few options, which can be combined in different ways. You can choose to not channel the body. You can kickup the frame rails in front of the firewall and behind the seat to get the car lower but save the interior space. Or you can build a perimeter frame so you drop the seat down between the frame rails. Or a combination of all four. Also factor in your transmision choice.

The main thing here is to build a car that fits you and doesn't involve costly bad design decisions. You want to avoid buying parts that you can't use, because either they don't fit or require drastic changes to other parts of the buildup. And you want to be able to drive the thing when your're done. It's no fun to spend lots of effort and money on car that you can't drive.

If anyone has more questions I'll be happy to help.

And one more thing, a fun, powerful T should cost less than $5K. If you spend more than that, you've spent too much.
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Re: T-Bucket Frame Dimensions?

Postby Cool23 » Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:58 pm

Why does it look to me like this topic has just appeared in the last few days :?: :shock:

Anyway, one of the reasons I am on this forum is the fact I have a 170 Pursuit Inline six in my 1923 T Roadster. Chassis had to be much longer than standard to allow the motor to fit, plus the fact I have adapted the motor to a Toyota five speed geabox.

Image
V8's are great but Six Inlines Just Fine. Cummins Advert.

The link to my project on this forum http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41598
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