Drivability/starting issues 95 F150 4.9L

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Drivability/starting issues 95 F150 4.9L

Postby vw_jason79 » Sun May 30, 2010 12:25 pm

My 95 F150 4.9L was down for about 18 months waiting to get the transmission(E4OD) rebuilt. The only problem this truck had when I parked besides the transmission was a CEL(KOEO 327) and the rear fuel pump didnt work. Well about 2-3 months ago I got the truck back together and drove it home and noticed it really didnt want to start and when it did start it would really stumble under acceleration. After the truck is warm there isnt a problem starting it. I have since replaced the EVP sensor(which got rid of the CEL), EGR, plugs, wires, cap, rotor, fuel filter, air filter, coolant temp sensor, throttle position sensor, and ignition coil. I have checked fuel pressure and it reads 40psi running and did not fall 3 minutes after turning off so I have kinda ruled out a faulty or failed FPR. When I changed the plugs, cylinder 1, 2, 5, and 6 had that brownish tan deposits of burnt oil. The truck does not smoke. I am about to go check compression on it just to be sure they are all in spec. After working around in the engine compartment I am starting to notice some two wire connectors that are just not connected to anything. I am feeling completely defeated on this thing. I am starting to the the front fuel pump may be on its way out. I just dont know. Anyone have some ideas? Nudge me in the right direction before I give up for the weekend and go have some beers?

Thanks in advance guys.

Here is one of the random connectors that I found in the engine compartment. It is coming from the same wiring loom as the TPS/EVP/vacuum module wires.
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n53/vw_jason79/DSC_0017.jpg

Sorry for the link, I still havent figured out how to post pics on here using photobucket.
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Re: Drivability/starting issues 95 F150 4.9L

Postby bubba22349 » Sun May 30, 2010 7:07 pm

I have a 94 that should be about the same though mine has the 5 speed. Hard to tell by your picture were to look though for that wire? Think you will need to do the compression test by your description of plugs may be low on cylinders # 3 & 4 being they are next to each other. A possible cause would be the head gasket blown between the two cylinders. No way to know until you do the compression test first (if cylinders are within 10 to 20 pounds of each other should run good) or else you would have to pull it apart. Another way you could get an idea is to warm it up, then loosen up all the plugs wires with it running pull one at a time and listen for the change in rpm. Good cylinders are very noticeable difference a real weak or no compression one won't change it at all. Don't try this though unless you have a good set of insulated plug pliers to use you get nailed.
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Re: Drivability/starting issues 95 F150 4.9L

Postby vw_jason79 » Sun May 30, 2010 8:06 pm

Yeah Im kinda too nervous about pulling plug wires while its running, I know it hurts like heck if it shocks ya.
Ok compression test completed and looks good:
Cyl1 ~ 145
Cyl2 ~ 150
Cyl3 ~ 150
Cyl4 ~ 145
Cyl5 ~ 150
Cyl6 ~ 145
:thumbup:

Also did a longer wait for fuel pressure
turn off engine ~ 40psi
after 45 minutes ~ 25psi
after 2 hours ~ 20psi

Now Im starting to believe its the FPR after this or does that seem normal for it to drop like that? I thought it would keep the rail pressure for a longer time.

I tried to find an open connector for that plug and there just isnt anything close enough to it. I hadnt unplugged it since I owned it. I kinda think it may be on the engine harness and I just dont have the equipment that it is supposed to plug into.
Another bit of info is that when I open the throttle all the way up from idle(goosing it) it sounds like it chokes for a second then revs up. When it comes back to idle the vacuum pressure goes back to roughly 18inHg followed immediately by stumbling and nearly dying down to about 5inHg. Maybe this may help in the diagnosis.
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Re: Drivability/starting issues 95 F150 4.9L

Postby StrangeRanger » Sun May 30, 2010 8:52 pm

45 minutes is irrelevant.
What is the FPR drop 5 minutes after shutdown?
You say you have 40 PSI KOER, what do you have KOEO before you first start it?
When you pull the vacuum line off the FPR, is there gasoline or the smell of gasoline present?
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Re: Drivability/starting issues 95 F150 4.9L

Postby vw_jason79 » Sun May 30, 2010 9:45 pm

Just got in from tinkering some more.
~5 minutes after shutdown there was no drop.
~KOEO with no pressure in the fuel lines:
first time I turned the ignition to the on position - 16psi
second time - 22psi
third time - 28psi
Will not go any higher than 28psi unless running
~pulled the FPR vacuum line no moisture and no smell of gasoline.

Off topic- You race Formula Fords? Awesome! :thumbup: I work grid for NASA Southeast(We suck, no open wheel cars, :lol: ). Do you ever make it to Road Atlanta for National SCCA events?
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Re: Drivability/starting issues 95 F150 4.9L

Postby 80broncoman » Mon May 31, 2010 12:53 am

Those pressure numbers seem low to me. I'd think for good starting you would need more.
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Re: Drivability/starting issues 95 F150 4.9L

Postby bubba22349 » Mon May 31, 2010 5:01 am

Have you checked your EGR valve to see if its sticking?
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

My fleet of Sixes: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.
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Re: Drivability/starting issues 95 F150 4.9L

Postby StrangeRanger » Mon May 31, 2010 5:46 am

80broncoman wrote:Those pressure numbers seem low to me. I'd think for good starting you would need more.

Those numbers are VERY low. The KOEO reading should be twice that.
What do you get KOER with the vacuum line disconnected?
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Re: Drivability/starting issues 95 F150 4.9L

Postby vw_jason79 » Mon May 31, 2010 11:53 am

The EGR and EVP sensor are brand new.

StrangeRanger wrote:What do you get KOER with the vacuum line disconnected?


The vacuum line to the FPR?
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Re: Drivability/starting issues 95 F150 4.9L

Postby StrangeRanger » Mon May 31, 2010 12:13 pm

vw_jason79 wrote:The vacuum line to the FPR?


Yes
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Re: Drivability/starting issues 95 F150 4.9L

Postby vw_jason79 » Mon May 31, 2010 12:56 pm

Pulled it while it was running and no change in fuel pressure. just stays bouncing at 40-41psi.
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Re: Drivability/starting issues 95 F150 4.9L

Postby StrangeRanger » Mon May 31, 2010 7:58 pm

That's too low and the fact that it doesn't change with the vacuum line removed points to a problem.
You should see something more on the order of 55-58 PSI KOEO or KOER with the vacuum line pulled and plugged.
It could be a pump problem or an FPR problem or a leaky injector. I'd bet against the injector because it holds pressure very well after shutdown.

Are any of your plugs gas-fouled or maybe even wet when you pull them? That would indicate an injector.
Is there gas or the smell of gas present when you pull the vacuum line off the FPR? That indicates the FPR.
Do you have twin tanks? Does this happen on both tanks? If it changes from tank to tank, it's a pump.
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Re: Drivability/starting issues 95 F150 4.9L

Postby vw_jason79 » Mon May 31, 2010 10:37 pm

The plug had about 10 miles on them when I pulled them to do the compression check yesterday and they were clean and dry.
I didnt really smell any gas or see moisture on the FPR or the vacuum line/connector. If removing the the vacuum line didnt make the fuel pressure go up KOER could that be a fuel pump going bad or just a FPR going bad? I would think that if the FPR was going bad it would leak down faster? Im not too sure.
It does have dual tanks but the rear pump was bad when I bought it. I guess it may be time to pull the bed and replace both the pumps while I have the help of pulling the bed.
Any recommendations on where to buy OE pumps that are just as good as OEM? Or should I just but OEM? I am planning on keep this truck for a number of years so I dont mind dropping the coin.
Do you think Id be jumping the gun to just go ahead and replace both pumps since one is known bad?
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Re: Drivability/starting issues 95 F150 4.9L

Postby bubba22349 » Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:28 am

Walbro pumps are good think they maybe quite a bit lower then from Ford think they are the OEM suppliers. The tank selector valve can cause problems.
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

My fleet of Sixes: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.
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Re: Drivability/starting issues 95 F150 4.9L

Postby StrangeRanger » Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:17 am

It's a 95. There is no selector valve.

Unfortunately, you cannot replace just the pump. You need to replace the entire Fuel Delivery Module. The FDM consists of the pump, the level sender and the shuttle valve which insures that the return flow goes to the correct tank. The pump is not available as a separate service part. You will also need a tube of di-electric grease.

Don't waste the money on an OEM part. Ford doesn't make them, they buy them from Walbro and possibly some other sources.
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Re: Drivability/starting issues 95 F150 4.9L

Postby vw_jason79 » Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:55 am

Is this what Im looking for?

http://highflowfuel.com/ag-19423.19409. ... -4-9l.html

I really appreciate your help guys, I am still learning this truck as I go. :)
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Re: Drivability/starting issues 95 F150 4.9L

Postby StrangeRanger » Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:29 pm

The stock pump is rated at 105 LPH vs. 39 PSI on a 302/351 and 95 LPH vs. 58 PSI on a 4.9.
What exactly are you planning on that you need or want 255 LPH?
Also that appears to be just a pump. With twin tanks, you need the entire fuel delivery module.

Just check with a regular parts store like NAPA or even the Zoo
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Re: Drivability/starting issues 95 F150 4.9L

Postby vw_jason79 » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:14 pm

This is what you mean by Fuel pump module correct? I seem to be finding a bunch of these at the local McParts stores(excuse my ignorance)

http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail ... 28+2028020
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Re: Drivability/starting issues 95 F150 4.9L

Postby StrangeRanger » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:45 pm

"Fuel Delivery Module" not "Fuel Pump Module"
It consists of
The pump
The strainer sock
An anti-drainback check valve in the pressure line
A pilot-operated shuttle valve in the return line
A fuel level sending unit.

The shuttle valve is the critical device for a two tank application

If you have any doubts, pull yours and take it with you. "I want one of these" always seems to work if you compare yours to what they bring out.
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