?1.65 yella terra rocker arms resulting in oil consumption??

[wsa111]

Has anyone had a drastic increase in oil consumption since the installation of 1.65 yella terra rocker arms which use the oil through pushrod oiling system.Even using spring loaded teflon seals oil consumption has trippled since installation compared to the oiling through the rocker shaft.
Do i need to deflect oil spray from the rocker arm orifice to the fulcrum,restrict oil flow from the rockers?? Or put in chevy o'ring seals below the keepers to prevent oil from flowing down the valve stems??
Has anyone experienced the same problem. William

 

[Anonymous]

I have seen an increase as well. I can't say what it's attributed to exactly because I've done lots of other things (full rebuild) at the same time and I know that I'm seeping a bit at the crank bolts out back.

 

[wsa111]

Per Doug, mustanggeezer, i checked my pcv valve for possible sucking oil into the intake via the pcv system. I moved the valve about 2" via a adapter above the chrome aftermarket valve cover. The shield below the pcv had oil puddled right below the valve & the valve was wet with oil.
The oil consumption has been reduced by 90%.
With the yella-terra rockers which use the pushrod oiling system, oil is sprayed all over the top of the valve cover, which does not have proper baffling to keep the pcv valve dry.
I still plan to pull the head & install a thinner head gasket & at that time will install chevy valve stem o'ring seals which go right below the keepers & the seal is trapped at the bottom of the taper of the retainer. this will stop the flow of oil through the keeper gap to the valve stem.
I will also rebaffle the pcv area from direct oil spray at the top of the valve cover. I also plan to restrict the oil from the rocker arm adjuster orifice. Another possiblilty is to spot weld a shield to direct oil which is sprayed from the rocker adjust orafice to the fulcrum area of the rocker arm rather than have it spray all over the top of the valve retainer & spring,& guide area. At the same time i might change the valve guide seals to a different design.
Chevy & small block fords have been fighting over oiling of the valve area for years. In a stock sbc-sbf with stock oil pressure over oiling is not a problem, but add more oil pressure & these 6 cylinders have 60# of oil pressure & the over oiling rears its ugly head. William

 

[Anonymous]

The oil consumption has been reduced by 90%

Hey....one of my lucky guesses was finally right!

Glad to hear that you solved the problem!!!

Later,

Doug

 

[wsa111]

Doug, thanks for the pcv baffle over oiling issue. As i said I still plan to cut the flow of oil to the valve area so I can bury this complete over oiling problem. The oil holes in the yella-terra rocker arms are way too large. I may press in a plug or something similiar & drill a lot smaller oil hole to restrict the massive oil flow. The design allows oil to be sprayed all the time , where a sbc rocker arm has the squirt hole at a 30 degree angle and sprays oil only at a certain time in the valve lift.
Just another time where aftermarket parts have to be properly re-engineered. William

 

[xctasy]

Most GM L6's and Ford I6's with Hydraulic lifters have a priorty system to the head via pushrods.

When we swap lifter , push rod and rocker parts, two things that must be noted. The sump must always be over filled stock, or a larger capacity stock. Then, then should be some restriction to the flow of oil to the head unless it is being raced.

If its raced with restricted flow to the cylinder head, valve spring failure rate will increase as valve spring life is based on temperature and maount of work being done. In old racing Boss 302's and 351C 4v HO's, running past 7500 rpm on a lap of a 25 lap race could push the valve sptings over the edge into 'spring yield', and the springs have to be junked for that meeting.

Lifters need a full supply of oil, and hardworked Holden L6's and Ford I6's need to have oil to the lifters. The lifters take all the oil, then leave nothing there for the main bearings and crank pins. The valves could litterally be drowning in Black Gold, yet the bearings would be run!

On the valve springs, its okay to strangle oil supply on lightly worked parallel valve sixes, but on canted valve x-flows, restricting oil flow the the head can creates those valve spring problems. This was a lesson learned in 1969 with the Boss Mustangs in the TRANSAM races. Lee Morse, a Fo Mo Co power train engineer, said the difference in valve spring life in a race engine unrestricted verses restricted is massive.

 

[strat1960s]

Has anyone had simular problems with AZ coupes roller rocker arms? I wander if this is where my oil/smoking issues may be comming from?

Ted

 

[Anonymous]

ted, do you have one of the aftermarket chrome valve covers? It sounds like William found the real source of the oil consumption in the drowning PCV valve. When and how much and what color is your smoke?

 

[wsa111]

The 1.65 full roller yella-terra rockers arms are a quality part, but i wish they had a choice of oil feed restrictors at the adjusting screw end.
If you don't have proper valve guide seals & better baffling around the pcv vent your engine will consume oil. When i get the head off i will look at several methods to slow the oil volume. William

 

[strat1960s]

63 DROP

AZ Coupe gave me one of those powered by ford valve covers. Looks nice and all, but I don't really think it is the source of my oil problems.
Here's what I have so far.
The motor doesn't smoke much until the it is in the 185* to 200* range. I have also noticed that it smokes worst when I am at a stop with the trans in drive. At the same time my oil pressure drops down to about 20 PSI. I was thinking that my oil was heating up and thining out so much that it was somehow seeping past the rings. I am running straight 30 wt now, but I plan to go up to 40 wt to see how that works. If my oil pressure still continues to drop when at a stop, I'll go up to 50wt.
I wish I had taken pictures of my valves when I changed out the intake and header gasket this last week. The vavles were looking realy nasty. Could it be bad seats and seals causing my oil consumption, again?
All I know is that the motor is burning oil and smoking so much that it really isn't much fun to drive anymore.


Ted

 

[wsa111]

Ted, I hate to be the guy that tells you that you need to pull the engine, regrind the crankshaft & put the proper size bearings in , bore the block, with oversize pistons & install positive valve guide seals.
The engine needs a complete overhaul. With 10w-30 oil you should have 35-60# oil pressure at all times depending on rpm's. William

 

[strat1960s]

William,

I know, that I am looking at yet another rebuild. I had a machine shop do the work for me a little over a year ago. They did the port & polish, spin balance, grind and polish on the crank and if I remember correctly, they also borded the cylinders 30 over.
When I took the head back to the same machine shop, the replaced the valves and seals. They used vitron (SP) seals. They also replaced the guides with custom bronze. I put well over 1000 miles of city driving on that motor before and after the head work. The only reason I took it to a different shop for the second rebuild was becasue the second shop would pull the motor for me and the first, due to insurance issues, could not. The funny thing about the second shop is that they complemented the first shops work. The technician I have delat with said that the cam, crank and bearings showed absolutely no signs of any wear or tear. I had heard that the first machine shop sometimes cut there tollerances too close. Is that possible????
Anyhow, yes, I am looking forward to a third rebuild in the fall or early winter, when I get back from my deployment to Iraq and Mike has those aluminum heads up for sale. Hine, hint, hint.
On a side note. I droped my 30 wt oil and put in some 50 wt with a new filter. I know this won't solve my oil consumption/smoke problem, but after driving it around for a while the motor did not smoke......... Ok, it only smoked a teeny weeny bit. With the motor running at 195* to 200*, at idle and while driving the oil pressure was at +/- 45 psi, while in gear and stopped it fell to +/- 40 psi. I'll take it out on the highway tomorrow and see if the motor likes the 50 wt or not.
I'll keep you all posted.

Ted

 

[addo]

I have been thinking about this engine of Ted's all day. (Is that why I hit my finger with the nailgun? )

It's really into "brainstorming" territory as so many of the usual culprits are readily dismissed.

Would/could bore flex be occurring? What about harmonic patterns setting up that conspired to work oil past rings or valve guides? It could be highly interesting to put the car on a dyno with piezo transducers on the motor, hooked to an oscilloscope.

Before you laugh at the possibility of harmonics, remember people whose flywheel bolts always back out.

What about an over-efficient oil pump that submerged the valve guide tops and seals in oil? Just some wacko ideas that aren't really that wacko.

Cheers, Adam.

 

[AzCoupe]

Has anyone had simular problems with AZ coupes roller rocker arms? I wander if this is where my oil/smoking issues may be comming from?

Ted, you have the RAS roller tipped rockers, not the full roller rockers that Will is talking about. The roller tip rockers use the stock shaft oiling system. So I doubt this is the issue in your case.

 

[strat1960s]

Thanks Mike,

I'm going to take my oil/smoke issues and start another forum topic so as not to distract from this topic.....

 

[wsa111]

90% of the oil was being sucked up by the pcv valve being flooded by oil spray. Any engine with oil through lifters has valve covers which are designed to disipate the direct oil spray to that area. Using a valve cover for a rocker arm oiling system which is designed from just gravity supply of oil to the pushrods, & rocker arm tips oil consumption is not an issue. The extra .015 lift is going to bring out the design faults of this engine. you have to change your thinking of oil control to a SBF,or SBC & BBC.
I give credit to doug mustang-geezer for pinpointing the oil problem.
You need positive valve seals, & anyway to limit the oil spray to the valve stems with this type of top end oiling situation. If you had solid lifters an oil restrictor could be put in the lifter oil supply. But hydraulic lifter require the full oil supply. you just have to either restrict the flow downstream or have proper valve shielding of oil spray. With stock v-8 oil pressure the stock engine will have no problem, but these six's put out 60# of oil presssure. i'll let you know the final results. William

 

[64xm]

Digging up a very old post here but how’d you end up with this mate

 

[78_200_C4]

The Rocker Arms Unlimited high lift rocker assembly won't have the excessive oil thru the pushrod problem.

Ford Rocker Arms Assembly Re-Build

Rocker Arm Assembly rebuild for Ford

www.rockerarms.com

 

[chad]

64xm:
a new thread on it (yella terra rockers). Pipe cleaners in the hollow, oil thru PR, oh boy, all sorta stuff tried by some1

?1.65 yella terra rocker arms resulting in oil consumption??

Has anyone had a drastic increase in oil consumption since the installation of 1.65 yella terra rocker arms which use the oil through pushrod oiling system.Even using spring loaded teflon seals oil consumption has trippled since installation compared to the oiling through the rocker shaft. Do i...

fordsix.com

BTW: it seems "over consumption of oil" means burn?
or is it just hi 'pressure' with in the head??

To me it could mean 'hi use of oil w/o (or w/)burning, w/o head g. or other issue (water jacket), w/ or w/o leak seen or unseen
and so forth.