300 6cyl swap

Mr. Bob

Active member
Yes an F350 is really handy size truck I had severial over the years and like them better than an F250. They are able to haul a quite a lot of weight, my 1965 could do most anything I ever needed to do including moving some smaller buildings like a few two car garages, numorious storage sheds that a used to delivery to customers etc. Mine also had a stake bed with a dump. Your 1986 doesn't really look that bad of shape how much is the frame bent? Does it still drive?
Yeah it still drives I drive it around my yard20210716_121127.jpg20210715_194807.jpg20210716_121239.jpg
 

Mr. Bob

Active member
You cannot get the passenger door open because when he hit me it shoved the bed into the cab which is why the dent is there behind the passenger door on the cab and on the right hand side of the bed is where he hit me and went underneath the truck the bad wobbles around while driving it the only thing that kept the bed on the truck was the U-boats there was wooden blocks between the bed and the frame but those are all busted out now so now the bed sit down on the frame my head hit the back window and shattered it eventually it just fell out I sold the back tires off of it I'll try to get some pictures when it's daylight of where the frame is bent
 

Mr. Bob

Active member
You cannot get the passenger door open because when he hit me it shoved the bed into the cab which is why the dent is there behind the passenger door on the cab and on the right hand side of the bed is where he hit me and went underneath the truck the bad wobbles around while driving it the only thing that kept the bed on the truck was the U-boats there was wooden blocks between the bed and the frame but those are all busted out now so now the bed sit down on the frame my head hit the back window and shattered it eventually it just fell out I sold the back tires off of it I'll try to get some pictures when it's daylight of where the frame is bent
The pictures showing the driver side of the truck that's about how much spacing was between the bed and the cab before he hit me as you can see on the passenger side of the truck there's not as much spacing now because the bed is sitting crooked
 

Mr. Bob

Active member
The pictures showing the driver side of the truck that's about how much spacing was between the bed and the cab before he hit me as you can see on the passenger side of the truck there's not as much spacing now because the bed is sitting crooked
That bed is diamond plate flooring overlaid on top of two by sixes didn't damage the bed except for in that one corner and crack some welds
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bubba22349

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I have done lots of body and paint work and to me that Cab corner isnt all that bad I think I could straighten the corner out in an hour or two with a Porta A Power (or even a good larger base bottle jack) at least enough to make the door open and close again. By putting a wood block in the cab just beside the corner at the outside door handle height and using the jack or porta a power to push about six inch above the door handle its not going to have to move very much to get the door gap back into line again so it will open looks like roughly 3/8 to 1/2 inch in the picture. It would of course take severial more hours (4 to 6) in metal working and prepping if you were ever wanting to get it back closer to its original condition and do a repaint of that corner. The rest of the back of the cab I can't really see any other damage to it. And the back window frame still looks like it's nice and straight were you could just install another new or used glass into it, those small flat glass windows are real easy to install using a cord to pull them into place. The bed could be unbolted and set or blocked up on 4 55 Gallion Druns and drive out from under it. With the bed removed it would make it much easier to work on the cab and rear frame section.

The bed though is bent in that corner pertty good so it will take the most amount work to fix but it could also be straightened out just enough so to be able get it bolted down properly on the trucks frame then you could use the truck again that would include making and fitting some new wood blocks for the frame mounting. That part of the job would take about 1 full day to 1 1/2 days of work. It would take quite a bit of heat and pushing to get that right rear corner even close to being straight (it could be left that way and still be serviceable) but if you were wanting to get it to look it's best again you could just cut that back section off and fit and weld a new piece back in its place might even be a bit quicker that way. I can't really see much on the trucks frame though if it still drives it might not even need any straightening or maybe not very much in the way of work to straighten it up again. I am thinking since that right rear corner of the flat bed took the brunt of that hit than maybe the trucks frame was saved from very much damage. I would do some diagonal measurements of both sides to see how much it's off. The truck is in decent enough condition and you invested a good amount of time and money it already I think it would be wroth spending 3 or 4 days as your able to fix it up so you can keep using it. best of luck
 

Mr. Bob

Active member
I have done lots of body and paint work and to me that Cab corner isnt all that bad I think I could straighten the corner out in an hour or two with a Porta A Power (or even a good larger base bottle jack) at least enough to make the door open and close again. It would of course take severial more hours (4to 6) in metal working and prepping if you were wanting to do a repaint of that corner. The rest of the back of the cab I can't see any real damage to it and the window frame still looks like it's nice and straight were you could just install another new or used glass into it, those small flat glass windows are real easy to install using a cord to pull them into place.

The bed is bent in that corner pertty good so it will take the most amount work to fix but it could also be straightened out enough so to be able get it bolted down properly on the trucks frame then you could use the truck again that would include making and fitting some new wood blocks. That part of the job would take about 1 full day to 1 1/2 days of work. It would take quite a bit of heat and pushing to get that right rear corner even close to being straight but if you were wanting it to look it's best again you could just cut that back section off and fit a new piece back in its place might even be a bit quicker. I can't really see much on the trucks frame though if it still drives it might not even need any straightening or maybe not very much in the way of work to straighten it up again. I am thinking since that right rear corner of the flat bed took the brunt of that hit than maybe the trucks frame was saved from very much damage. I would do some diagonal measurements of both sides to see how much it's off. The truck is in decent enough condition and you invested a good amount of time and money it already I think it would be wroth spending 3 or 4 days as your able to fix it up so you can keep using it. best of luck
The cab is offset slightly on the frame now the frame looks sort of like this il the bed just leaning over off the side the only thing holding it on is the u-bolts whenever you drive it around the yard the bed wobbles that one picture is not actually the frame it underneath the bed to show the two-by-sixes that the diamond plate flooring is overlaid on and actually on the back of the bed you could just either cut it back down to 10 foot from 12 length because actually they had it onto that bed it was originally 10 foot and put Channel iron across the back or cut that section on the back off and weld another piece going across but he broke every weld on the the supports underneath the bed your advice sounds good except for the time and money factors I'm a life member of the DAV I'm still waiting on the VA to cough up my increase from a judge's decision back in 2018 and give me a rating decision on it and I'm 61 years old trying to get my house fixed and have a mechanically sound reliable truck I appreciate your input and your advice I think my best bet would be just to find another truck body because it'd be a whole lot easier just to put the engine and transmission in it
I have done lots of body and paint work and to me that Cab corner isnt all that bad I think I could straighten the corner out in an hour or two with a Porta A Power (or even a good larger base bottle jack) at least enough to make the door open and close again. By putting a wood block in the cab just beside the corner at the outside door handle height and using the jack or porta a power to push about six inch above the door handle its not going to have to move very much to get the door gap back into line again so it will open looks like roughly 3/8 to 1/2 inch in the picture. It would of course take severial more hours (4 to 6) in metal working and prepping if you were ever wanting to get it back closer to its original condition and do a repaint of that corner. The rest of the back of the cab I can't really see any other damage to it. And the back window frame still looks like it's nice and straight were you could just install another new or used glass into it, those small flat glass windows are real easy to install using a cord to pull them into place. The bed could be unbolted and set or blocked up on 4 55 Gallion Druns and drive out from under it. With the bed removed it would make it much easier to work on the cab and rear frame section.

The bed though is bent in that corner pertty good so it will take the most amount work to fix but it could also be straightened out just enough so to be able get it bolted down properly on the trucks frame then you could use the truck again that would include making and fitting some new wood blocks for the frame mounting. That part of the job would take about 1 full day to 1 1/2 days of work. It would take quite a bit of heat and pushing to get that right rear corner even close to being straight (it could be left that way and still be serviceable) but if you were wanting to get it to look it's best again you could just cut that back section off and fit and weld a new piece back in its place might even be a bit quicker that way. I can't really see much on the trucks frame though if it still drives it might not even need any straightening or maybe not very much in the way of work to straighten it up again. I am thinking since that right rear corner of the flat bed took the brunt of that hit than maybe the trucks frame was saved from very much damage. I would do some diagonal measurements of both sides to see how much it's off. The truck is in decent enough condition and you invested a good amount of time and money it already I think it would be wroth spending 3 or 4 days as your able to fix it up so you can keep using it. best of luck
The white line on the frame behind the cab is where the cab used to sit20210717_154332.jpg20210717_154412.jpg cracked a lot of Welds underneath the bed20210717_154530.jpg the side of the frame that's bent 20210717_154706.jpg another weld cracked 20210717_154716.jpg
 

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Mr. Bob

Active member
The cab is offset slightly on the frame now the frame looks sort of like this il the bed just leaning over off the side the only thing holding it on is the u-bolts whenever you drive it around the yard the bed wobbles that one picture is not actually the frame it underneath the bed to show the two-by-sixes that the diamond plate flooring is overlaid on and actually on the back of the bed you could just either cut it back down to 10 foot from 12 length because actually they had it onto that bed it was originally 10 foot and put Channel iron across the back or cut that section on the back off and weld another piece going across but he broke every weld on the the supports underneath the bed your advice sounds good except for the time and money factors I'm a life member of the DAV I'm still waiting on the VA to cough up my increase from a judge's decision back in 2018 and give me a rating decision on it and I'm 61 years old trying to get my house fixed and have a mechanically sound reliable truck I appreciate your input and your advice I think my best bet would be just to find another truck body because it'd be a whole lot easier just to put the engine and transmission in it

The white line on the frame behind the cab is where the cab used to sitView attachment 7676View attachment 7677 cracked a lot of Welds underneath the bedView attachment 7679 the side of the frame that's bent View attachment 7680 another weld cracked View attachment 7681
And right now the Toyota which is what I have been driving first truck in my entire life that has air conditioning and a radio and they both work normally it was just the radio if that, is needing to have the timing chain replaced and that's the F-150 that I'm working on Message_1620604829811.jpg
 
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Mr. Bob

Active member
And right now the Toyota which is what I have been driving first truck in my entire life that has air conditioning and a radio and they both work normally it was just the radio if that, is needing to have the timing chain replaced and that's the F-150 that I'm working on View attachment 7682
The 27 year old kid that rear-ended me went up under the bed of the truck and hit the rear tires bent the rims also but I did take what you suggested into deep consideration was almost going to try to do something about it to that effect until I noticed that the engine is sitting cockeyed also so basically there's no hope for the frame
 

Mr. Bob

Active member
Yes that probably could work. The only thing I wouldn’t be sure of is if the piston dishes would match (all depends on what the rebuilder used in the 1986 short block) if they would be the same, but you woukd see that as soon as you pulled the heads off.
I pulled the head off and here's a picture of the Pistons would I be able to put a EFI head on?20210720_140521.jpg
 

bubba22349

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Yes you could, its got one of the right piston dishes in it. But I don’t know what your compression ratio will be with those maybe 8.5 to 1 instead of an 8.8 of an EFI engine.
 

Lazy JW

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Those don't look like the EFI pistons I used in my White Ox; they have a dish that matches the shape of the Fast-Burn EFI head. I just now did a quick skim-read of all four pages of this thread, did anyone mention the fact that the 86 carby engine probably doesn't have any provision for the Knock Sensor?

I do like the looks of your F-350, I like the Bullnose cabs better than the old Dentsides.

Good luck with your project,
Joe
 

Mr. Bob

Active member
Those don't look like the EFI pistons I used in my White Ox; they have a dish that matches the shape of the Fast-Burn EFI head. I just now did a quick skim-read of all four pages of this thread, did anyone mention the fact that the 86 carby engine probably doesn't have any provision for the Knock Sensor?

I do like the looks of your F-350, I like the Bullnose cabs better than the old Dentsides.

Good luck with your project,
Joe
What is a fast burn EFI head? Also could you include a picture of where the knock sensor is supposed to go
 

Pontus

Well-known member
Supporter 2021
What is a fast burn EFI head?
All EFI heads are "fast burn" or "high swirl/squish". Basically, there's a flat portion of the combustion chamber and matching portion in the stock piston behind the valves which squishes the mixture into the main combustion chamber @tdc for faster burn. It allows the engine to run a higher compression without detonation. At least that's my understanding of it.

I can't find any reference to the size of the dish on those pistons, so it's hard to say whether the compression ratio would be stock or less, but it would be missing the squish factor. Those pistons do get brought up in an application search for EFI motors, but that's not necessarily always correct. Fuel air ratios wouldn't need to change, so the computer could probably handle it. Honestly, I think it would be fine, but it's a risk. And I'm no expert.
 

Frank

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Supporter 2021
Mr. Bob, on a side note- was the boy injured who hit you? I drove tractor-trailer trucks for 20 years, and some of the ugliest wrecks were 4 wheelers at speed running under the back of a trailer. Usually fatal. . . Also the point about the knock sensor is important, you will need it for EFI. It mounts 1 1/2 inches in front of the top engine mount bolt, about on the same plane as it, just below the lifter cover. it's a 3/8 threaded hole. (driver's side) can't send pic, still a flip phone guy. :shock:
 

Mr. Bob

Active member
All EFI heads are "fast burn" or "high swirl/squish". Basically, there's a flat portion of the combustion chamber and matching portion in the stock piston behind the valves which squishes the mixture into the main combustion chamber @tdc for faster burn. It allows the engine to run a higher compression without detonation. At least that's my understanding of it.

I can't find any reference to the size of the dish on those pistons, so it's hard to say whether the compression ratio would be stock or less, but it would be missing the squish factor. Those pistons do get brought up in an application search for EFI motors, but that's not necessarily always correct. Fuel air ratios wouldn't need to change, so the computer could probably handle it. Honestly, I think it would be fine, but it's a risk. And I'm no expert.
If you click on the picture and enlarge it there is some information on the top of the first cylinder you can read
 

Pontus

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If you click on the picture and enlarge it there is some information on the top of the first cylinder you can read
Yup, that's how I looked them up. It's these. It just says 0.300" deep. But that doesn't tell you the volume which is needed to know the compression ratio.

Edit: The page on Rock Auto says they're 7.8:1 which I'm assuming is for a non-EFI motor.
 
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Pontus

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Supporter 2021
They look exactly like these from Enginetech without the coating, but these state that CR is 8.8:1 which is the stock EFI CR. And these show up in the applications listed all the way up to 1995. So I think they may be stock CR but without the D shaped EFI dish.
 

Mr. Bob

Active member
Mr. Bob, on a side note- was the boy injured who hit you? I drove tractor-trailer trucks for 20 years, and some of the ugliest wrecks were 4 wheelers at speed running under the back of a trailer. Usually fatal. . . Also the point about the knock sensor is important, you will need it for EFI. It mounts 1 1/2 inches in front of the top engine mount bolt, about on the same plane as it, just below the lifter cover. it's a 3/8 threaded hole. (driver's side) can't send pic, still a flip phone guy. :shock:
Yeah he was injured but I don't know how bad exactly he was driving a Chrysler 300 wasn't even his car no insurance was supposed to have a license operator in the front seat and he already has four prior counts in the county I live in when he hit me I thought the ground had gone out from underneath me and when I came back down I was already down shifting into second gear to maintain control and he hit me so hard so fast it's spun me around I watched all this stuff flying past me & him going off into the ditch they pulled him out on the passanger side was assisting him up out of the ditch
 

Mr. Bob

Active member
Yup, that's how I looked them up. It's these. It just says 0.300" deep. But that doesn't tell you the volume which is needed to know the compression ratio.

Edit: The page on Rock Auto says they're 7.8:1 which I'm assuming is for a non-EFI motor.
That link it states those pistons are for this yr model:
Hypereutectic Pistons
  • 1969-1979 Ford 300 ci / 4.9L L6
  • 4.000 in. (Standard)
  • Dish Top, 0.300 in. Deep
Mine is 1986 would that make a difference?
 
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Frank

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Supporter 2021
Glad it wasn't any worse. . Thanks. . Knock sensor: I just compared my '79 block to my '90 block. there is significant differences in that area of the block. The back of the boss for the mechanical fuel pump is about where the knock sensor goes on the newer block. This is going to require some creativity to mount the sensor. . My first reaction is to tap the rear hole of the mechanical pump mount out to 3/8 and mount the sensor there. . But a block-off plate has to go there too. . Hummm. Doable but may not be the best solution. Some of the other men with more Ford experience need to chime in on this.
 
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