I have a Holley 500 I want to try out on my 200. Right now I have the 350. The car is 67 Falcon 200 C4 8" rear 350 gear. The mods so far are 67 200 block D8 head ported and port divider 3 angle valve job,milled 075 comp cams 260 302HO valve springs one piece retainers. Hooker headers with 2" duals, DS2 ignition 14x3 K&N. electric fan. The C4 has a shift kit. What I need to know is what jets to use and power valve, pump cam to use. what pump nozzle and other mods? This will be used on modifed adapter. Thanks for any help. Russell
500 Holley set up?
- Thread starter 67 Falcon
- Start date
Russell, you can start with 71 main jets, 7.5 power valve, stock .028 accerator pump discharge nozzle & stock 500 pump cam.
Also make sure you have manifold vacuum to the distributor at idle, do not use ported vacuum, any combination with a decent camshaft will love the extra advance at idle & part throttle. the comp cam is real mild, you could really purk up the top end with more camshaft, but the comp cam will suffice. The throttle response with the 500 carb is a dramatic change over the 350 carb.
I hope you are using at least a 1.6 rocker arm to add a little more camshaft duration @.050 & another .030 lift.
Russell are you using a bolt on adapter to the 1 barrel carb mount, or have you milled the intake log & have modified it to get full benifit of the extra carburetion. such as
Keep us informed. william
Also make sure you have manifold vacuum to the distributor at idle, do not use ported vacuum, any combination with a decent camshaft will love the extra advance at idle & part throttle. the comp cam is real mild, you could really purk up the top end with more camshaft, but the comp cam will suffice. The throttle response with the 500 carb is a dramatic change over the 350 carb.
I hope you are using at least a 1.6 rocker arm to add a little more camshaft duration @.050 & another .030 lift.
Russell are you using a bolt on adapter to the 1 barrel carb mount, or have you milled the intake log & have modified it to get full benifit of the extra carburetion. such as
Keep us informed. william
A
Anonymous
Guest
That is a sweet set up on that head...Can i get a little more info on what to do???I have a 82 Mustang with a 3.3L I6 200 and the car lacks alot of power.....alot. I did find a 2BBL carb off of a 3.8L V6 mustang (84 Vintage) that i was just going to put on with an adaptor from Clifford, but i thought that the adaptor will not do much for the performance part of the engine due to it still has to go into the small hole.
What else can i do to hop this engine up to give it a little more umffff..Timming set at,tune up stuff, cat already missing...that sort of stuff
..Keep in mind this is going to be the daughters car very soon.
What else can i do to hop this engine up to give it a little more umffff..Timming set at,tune up stuff, cat already missing...that sort of stuff
..Keep in mind this is going to be the daughters car very soon.
was111 Thanks for the info. The Rocker arm is a stock NOS 1.52 adjustable I found at a swap meet new still in box for $20. The adapter is a Holly looks somthing like Cliffords. I hog the adapter and the inlet on manifold out. I dount want to direct mount the carb, my try the offy set up later. Do you think the 500 Holly would out perform the Offy set up? I love the cam, has a nice loppy idle and runs strong after 2000 RPMs to 5000. Russell
Howdy Russell:
It might be a good idea for you to do some serious planning- starting with, what do you want this engine to be in the end. You have a nice balanced package right now. In truth, your current configuration of the head cannot use much more than about .400" lift, even with the improvements you've made. By that I mean, if you were to put this head on a flow bench and measure CFM at various lifts, usually at .050" intervals, it would peak out just under .400" of lift. Additional lift beyone that does not increase cfm. It just adds to wear, stress and control issues. Increase duration and a fatter profile cam would help
To take advantage of the 500 Holley over the 350 you will need to step up to a direct mount and eliminate the funnel. I'm not saying you won't notice the difference, you just won't get all of the potential.
William is the man on the 500 so start where he says to. I am not understanding his recommend to using the full manifold vacuum port for vacuum advance to the DSII on this carb though. Please explain your thinking William. I've used full manifold vacuum before with my setup and loved the leave, but got plug peppering at cruise, even with colder plugs. I've settled on a ported vacuum source for my Autolite and run 16 to 20 initial advance for the bottom.
My Holley #4412 is ready to go on. I just need to recover from some knee surgury first.
86Caprirs- You might want to do a search on '80 - '82 engine improvements first, and then start your own thread on your '82. The lack of power on the '80 - '82 200s has several causes. The smog ladden 1946 one barrel, retarded cam timing, high gearing and restrictive exhaust. Switching to a Holley/Weber two stage two barrell will help, but requires specific tuning to get it right. Search here for that too. It's been discussed a bunch.
The other items can be dealt with too, just a little more involved. Know that you already have a great head and ignition.
Adios, David
It might be a good idea for you to do some serious planning- starting with, what do you want this engine to be in the end. You have a nice balanced package right now. In truth, your current configuration of the head cannot use much more than about .400" lift, even with the improvements you've made. By that I mean, if you were to put this head on a flow bench and measure CFM at various lifts, usually at .050" intervals, it would peak out just under .400" of lift. Additional lift beyone that does not increase cfm. It just adds to wear, stress and control issues. Increase duration and a fatter profile cam would help
To take advantage of the 500 Holley over the 350 you will need to step up to a direct mount and eliminate the funnel. I'm not saying you won't notice the difference, you just won't get all of the potential.
William is the man on the 500 so start where he says to. I am not understanding his recommend to using the full manifold vacuum port for vacuum advance to the DSII on this carb though. Please explain your thinking William. I've used full manifold vacuum before with my setup and loved the leave, but got plug peppering at cruise, even with colder plugs. I've settled on a ported vacuum source for my Autolite and run 16 to 20 initial advance for the bottom.
My Holley #4412 is ready to go on. I just need to recover from some knee surgury first.
86Caprirs- You might want to do a search on '80 - '82 engine improvements first, and then start your own thread on your '82. The lack of power on the '80 - '82 200s has several causes. The smog ladden 1946 one barrel, retarded cam timing, high gearing and restrictive exhaust. Switching to a Holley/Weber two stage two barrell will help, but requires specific tuning to get it right. Search here for that too. It's been discussed a bunch.
The other items can be dealt with too, just a little more involved. Know that you already have a great head and ignition.
Adios, David
Russell, you are first on the list.
If you use an adaptor you are wasting your time with a 4412-500 cfm carb. Use the 7448-350 cfm carb with 59 main jets,8.5 power valve,.031 accerator discharge nozzle & an orange cam in the #2 position. this may work if you have hogged enough to get decent flow to the intake.
David, hope your knee surgery was sucessful. If its a knee replacement it is a six month full recovery time. depending which knee it was will play into when you get back to normal.If is was the left knee & you have a stick shift it will add to your recovery time. Hope you a speedy recovery.
This could get technical on the benifits of using full vacuum at idle with the 500 cfm carb.
First, this carburetor was really designed for class racing. If you look at the throttle blade there is a .060 hole in the blade. This was put there by holley for the user with a long duration camshaft with a 106-108 lobe center camshaft. This type of camshaft has very low vacuum at idle & requires a considerable amount of throttle opening to maintain a decent curb idle. Since you are using this carburetor on a small cubic inch engine, the port for vacuum advance does not even produce vacuum advance even at crusing speeds if you have a camshaft with 112-114 lobe center with 214 degrees @ .050. That is why full vacuum to the distributor is essential for great driveability & good fuel miliage when driving.
If you use ported vacuum you will not even use vacuum advance till higher cruising speeds. the X factor is the wilder the cam the greater the throttle opening will be & thus will expose the off idle vacuum port.
If you have a camshaft over 212 degrees @ .050 the full vacuum advance is the only way to get great driveability.
David, lets get back to what you said about full vacuum advance at idle. If you have a lot of vacuum advance degrees you could have the condition which you described.
You as the owner will have to experiment with vacuum advance total to get the right combination. Good luck. Any questions are welcome. I am here to help. Williaml
If you use an adaptor you are wasting your time with a 4412-500 cfm carb. Use the 7448-350 cfm carb with 59 main jets,8.5 power valve,.031 accerator discharge nozzle & an orange cam in the #2 position. this may work if you have hogged enough to get decent flow to the intake.
David, hope your knee surgery was sucessful. If its a knee replacement it is a six month full recovery time. depending which knee it was will play into when you get back to normal.If is was the left knee & you have a stick shift it will add to your recovery time. Hope you a speedy recovery.
This could get technical on the benifits of using full vacuum at idle with the 500 cfm carb.
First, this carburetor was really designed for class racing. If you look at the throttle blade there is a .060 hole in the blade. This was put there by holley for the user with a long duration camshaft with a 106-108 lobe center camshaft. This type of camshaft has very low vacuum at idle & requires a considerable amount of throttle opening to maintain a decent curb idle. Since you are using this carburetor on a small cubic inch engine, the port for vacuum advance does not even produce vacuum advance even at crusing speeds if you have a camshaft with 112-114 lobe center with 214 degrees @ .050. That is why full vacuum to the distributor is essential for great driveability & good fuel miliage when driving.
If you use ported vacuum you will not even use vacuum advance till higher cruising speeds. the X factor is the wilder the cam the greater the throttle opening will be & thus will expose the off idle vacuum port.
If you have a camshaft over 212 degrees @ .050 the full vacuum advance is the only way to get great driveability.
David, lets get back to what you said about full vacuum advance at idle. If you have a lot of vacuum advance degrees you could have the condition which you described.
You as the owner will have to experiment with vacuum advance total to get the right combination. Good luck. Any questions are welcome. I am here to help. Williaml
William, I have my 4412 mounted on an adapter that I also hogged out along with the manifold inlet and the performance is fantastic. We weren't sure if I was going to lose some off the bottom end with the big carb. As it turns out we lost nothing and gained a ton at the top end. The only problem now is that the car knows exactly what to do with the extra fuel and in a hurry too. I actually think the added height of the adapter may help with the fuel distribution in the log.
.................Alex
.................Alex
Howdy back All:
William: The knee surgury was arthrascopic repair to the miniscus of the righ knee. Too many years of high school and collegette wrestling and youthful exuberances. I'm also an active horseman, which adds to the wear-and-tear. Anyway I should be back on the gas within two weeks. Thanks for your concern and insight.
I'm most appreciative of your knowledge of the #4412. I'm at 5,000 Ft elevation here in eastern Idaho, so low vacuum is a given. The 260 Comp cam also adds to the vacuum problem. I have had my DSII recurved for less vacuum advance, a quicker centrifugal curve and more initial. I may have to refigure.
Thanks for reminding me of the fact that true "Tuning" has to take place with every change. No two carbs are the same. I may be back for more help on refinements.
Adios, David
William: The knee surgury was arthrascopic repair to the miniscus of the righ knee. Too many years of high school and collegette wrestling and youthful exuberances. I'm also an active horseman, which adds to the wear-and-tear. Anyway I should be back on the gas within two weeks. Thanks for your concern and insight.
I'm most appreciative of your knowledge of the #4412. I'm at 5,000 Ft elevation here in eastern Idaho, so low vacuum is a given. The 260 Comp cam also adds to the vacuum problem. I have had my DSII recurved for less vacuum advance, a quicker centrifugal curve and more initial. I may have to refigure.
Thanks for reminding me of the fact that true "Tuning" has to take place with every change. No two carbs are the same. I may be back for more help on refinements.
Adios, David
Alex, I'm glad the 500 works for you. If you measure the square inches between the adapter vs. the carb the adapter comes up short.
David, at your 5000 ft elevation you may want to try a 70 main jet instead of the 71 when you go to the 4412-500 carb. William
David, at your 5000 ft elevation you may want to try a 70 main jet instead of the 71 when you go to the 4412-500 carb. William
66Sprint6
Famous Member
Ive got a holley 500cfm using a cliffy adapter and it worked pretty well. We were going to direct mount the carb during this rebuild, but the machine shop wouldnt do the adapter?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? That and time is not on our side so for now we will be going blow thru with the 500 on the adapter till I can direct mount. Kinda made me mad at first, but feeling the difference when I finally direct mount will be fun!
Matt
Matt
Russell, I can't find a holley listing for the 6391-2 carb.
Is this a oem 2 barrel or what is it . Can you send a photo & or give the throttle bore & venturi diameter?
The next step give holley a call on their tech line. Good luck, sure depends who you get to answer the phone for an intelligent response.
this is the guy who I normally call.
Chris Reid @ holley tech
1801 russellville rd
Bowling Green, KY 42101
866-464-6553
by the way this is a toll free call, you readers might just want to remember this # because if you want to call holley otherwise it is on your $$$. William
Is this a oem 2 barrel or what is it . Can you send a photo & or give the throttle bore & venturi diameter?
The next step give holley a call on their tech line. Good luck, sure depends who you get to answer the phone for an intelligent response.
this is the guy who I normally call.
Chris Reid @ holley tech
1801 russellville rd
Bowling Green, KY 42101
866-464-6553
by the way this is a toll free call, you readers might just want to remember this # because if you want to call holley otherwise it is on your $$$. William
Now I know way it runs out of steam at 5000 RPM. The next time I go to a swap meet I will look for a 350. Russell
Russell, with the adapter you can try the 7448-350 cfm carb, if you have the modified log like i have go right to the 4412-500 cfm carburetor.
I have no experience using an adapter. You will have to try both.
I know from experience if you have a modified log with a direct mount the 500 cfm is way ahead of the 350 carb in performance. If you want an increase in performance but better fuel miliage then use the 350 carb.
william
I have no experience using an adapter. You will have to try both.
I know from experience if you have a modified log with a direct mount the 500 cfm is way ahead of the 350 carb in performance. If you want an increase in performance but better fuel miliage then use the 350 carb.
william
kirkallen143
Famous Member
Reading this makes me think that the 500 directly mounted on the log and being blown thru with the turbo will work perfect. I too, will run the manifold vacuum to the advance and then run the port-side to the retard on the dual vacuum dizzy. This was explained in one of the turbo books as far as ignition timing goes, so as to retard timing under boost and advance timing off the line. Looks like to me it will work.
Will, with the 71 jets (and all the other advice), think they also work for the 200 blown(8-10psi max) @ sea level with the 500? You probably said it elsewhere and I missed it. Thank you sir.
Kirk ' 73 bronco
Will, with the 71 jets (and all the other advice), think they also work for the 200 blown(8-10psi max) @ sea level with the 500? You probably said it elsewhere and I missed it. Thank you sir.
Kirk ' 73 bronco
Kirk, I have no experience with a turbo setup.
You need to post it in turbo section of this forum.
A turbo setup is a great way of increasing power, but you need the expertise of someone who has done the necessary modifications with a blower. William
You need to post it in turbo section of this forum.
A turbo setup is a great way of increasing power, but you need the expertise of someone who has done the necessary modifications with a blower. William
kirkallen143
Famous Member
I appologize about that, I have gotten you mixed up w/ someone else, even though it never hurts to ask. Have a good one.
Kirk ' 73 bronco
Kirk ' 73 bronco
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