84DA EFI Conversion

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What's involved in this swap? If I had a fuel pump, injectors, fuel line and throttle body what else would it require. What electronics are required? From a performance stand point, would a good 2 or 4 barrel setup perform better? I know EFI would be more effeicient but I'm not really concerned about MPG. Weekend car. Want to add grunt.
 
The EFI setup I am referring to is what their calling 83-88 series. Another manifold carby set up I'm seeing is for an EA or EB. Are either one of these better than what I have?
 
You have to be aware that the early set-ups before the OHC3.9/4.0's were
'brain dead'
cast offs of BMW 323i technology.
No EPROMS.
None had a 3-way cat or feedback systems like the later ones had.

Jack Collins said its much better replaced with a SDS system, and get rid of the horrible air vane meter.

It's not entirely dreadfull, but its only a good thing if you can get the stock system easily.

The stock XE and XF EFI set-up can be hard on fuel if not set-up correctly. It does have globs of snatch free low-end grunt quite unlike most 4-bbls. thats 240 lb-ft, better than an 83 5.0 GT 2-BBL. It's like a good EFI 302 for low end torque, but runs out of grunt rapidly past 4000 rpm.

The XE EFI swap is so easy its funny. Cam is the same, the compression is 8.8:1 via a differntly machined chamber, but if you run US 93 octane grade, the 9.35:1 copmpression won't cause problems.

The stock ECM is wired seperately from the factory. The stock pump is hung off the steel gas tank on the wagons and utes, and its very easy to us the stock aftermarket return line or still pot kits the 5.0 EFI guys use. The air box fits where Jack and his son have there's in the Crossflow Chronicles 66 Mustang. The stock reinforced rubber gooseneck doesn't fit the engine bay as well as the Aussie Falcon. The early American Mustangs and Falcons have heaps less space to each spring tower. The pressure regulator and basic gear is easier to get as a junked EFI engine than pay on each part. No different here as it is in most junk parts in the states.

The worst issue is the later XF engines. They are high swirl, and you don't dare swap a carby 4.1 to EFI unless you use all the right bits. The EFI runs a wilder cam, and very different chamber machining. There are some early leaded carby 4.1's which have 9.35:1 compression and are desiged for your 93octane. Herein lies a problem for low grade gas users:-

If you put later unleaded EFI system on 4.1 carb leaded engine, and run it on your 87, it'll ping it s head off. With or without the knock sensor

XF engines are great if kept stock, but you must reduce the compression ratio or go to 93 octane for safety's sake. If you run the same SDS system as Jacks XF engine, then it should be fine, as its a whole lot smarter.


The XF EFI has heaps more power at 162 hp, verses the 149 of the XE efi. There is 246 lb-ft on the XF, and 240 on the XE EFI

The carb 4.1 has the same factory 131 hp (it was rated at 141 earlier, but was never actually dynoed at that level). stock torque was about 229 lb-ft.

The SDS system elimates the air vane, and gives a great performance boost. mustangsix2's device must have 200 hp just as it stands with the better cam and headers.
 
xtaxi, I think you have confused XE efi with XF efi - VERY different electronically!! You are right about XE being similar to early BMW stuff; it is a full Bosch LE Jetronic system, that used the coil -ve signal for timing the injection. The XE system is fuel only.

XF, however is -sortof- based on a Bosch Motronic system, and is full engine management (fuel and spark). It is very similar to V8 stuff and the like. XF efi has an Eprom, but it is a special kind that cannot be read with normal Eprom readers. Like the V8 stuff, the XF ecus have a J3 port on the back, and if someone got excited enough a new control map could be used instead of the factory one.

There are two versions of the XF efi system. One is leaded (84da series ecu) and unleaded (86da series ecu, with knock sensor).

The XE vane airflow meters look similar to the XF items, but are very different electrically. The throttle bodies and injectors are different but most other bits are the same.

The rotten things chew heaps of fuel, but!
 
Let's see if I got this right. Either one will work, XE will require fuel management, XF requires both fuel and ignition management. Also, sounded like you said the XF requires a different cam. I'm not quite ready for a new cam. Heck, I don't even have the carby running yet. While it's real close, thanks in part to you guys, it's hard to work on your car when your 5 states away from home working a job with no end in site... Ooops, almost started venting there...

I've been seeing these EFI's for sale and it really has me thinking about bolt ons for these engines. Also reading your other threads, you guys are true hot rodders. More and more a lost art with crate motors and available OTC hosepower. I enjoy myself every time I come visit. Thanks a lot guys,
Dave
 
Speedy, if you want a very simple efi setup, go with the XE system. It will work with your existing distributor and is a piece of cake to wire up. That way, you can muck around with the ignition timing (I think that is where most of the extra power hides) and it should work with just about any 'sane' cam, etc. You will need the wiring harness, airflow meter (try and get a good one), the coolant temp sensor, injectors, throttle body and of course a high pressure fuel supply. These are mostly bosch bits so you maybe able to even source them new in the states! If you need part numbers I maybe able to dig them up, but it may take me a while to gather the information.

Hope I have helped.
Kendall.
 
Kendall,
That sounds like the trick. Good infomation. Definately an achievable goal for myself as well as others. I'm somewhat familiar with everything you mentioned except on the fuel pump. I see fuel pumps's on ebay all the time for the mustang guys. I think it was Dean who mentioned the tank mount forced feed fuel pumps. I'm seeing Walbro pumps for just about every aplication but I would like one designed for retrofitting an older style gas tank. I've just been fortunate enough to never have had to replace one so I don't know what they look like or how they mount.
 
Speedy, the fuel pump you need for and efi 250 will need to push about 45psi and deliver around 2 litres/minute. Maybe the pump and pickup out of a fuel injected f-truck or something would be suitable?? You will also need to install a return line to the tank and ensure both feed and return pipes are big enough - otherwise you will have allsorts of dramas! 3/8 for the high pressure (feed) and 5/16 for the return should be OK. Make sure you use proper efi fuel hose and clamps for any joins (not the el-cheapo carby stuff).

Kendall
 
Almost forgot... If you are going to go efi using a setup sourced from Australia, I would make sure the ecu is checked or reconditioned by an Australian ecu repair mob before it is sent out to you - this will save you from getting a dud and spending hours (weeks?) (months) (years) {now I am venting} trying to fault find the rotten thing. If you need some names I can suggest a couple. Just let me know.
 
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