Adjustment wheel all the way out with new cylinders & shoes

bubba22349

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:beer: congrats the brake hardware and shoe install looks excellent, it's a job that's well done! I am glad you have good braking as it's so important to have brakes and tires that are in top condistion now days for safety!

The self adjusters will only tighten up when going in reverse and only tighten so far, they are designed to not over tighten. I usually find a place with lots of room and is safe and start backing up at approximately 5 to 7 mph stepping on the pedel rapidly in short bursts of three or four taps of the brake pedal. Then I drive the car and see how the brakes work and how much pedal travel before brakes grab if nessisary I repete this. (y) :nod:
 

63flcn

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Thank you!

Only thing I need to figure out now is that the diver side catches about half a second before the passenger. They are both adjusted to the same "drag point". Once the passenger catches up it brakes straight.

I found an empty lot and did some hard reverse braking, hard to tell if it did much.
 

bubba22349

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I have had few were the adjuster wheels that were bottomed out so tight they wouldn't start to self adjust. I will always preset the shoes close to drum diameter so that it doesn't take very much backing up to get them adjusted right. I use a little white lithium grease on the adjuster threads so they will turn easier, also on the baking plate slide pads, the top anchor pins and shoes, the adjuster pivot, emergency bake parts, or anywhere else it needs to move for a little less fiction also quiets the brakes as they are moving. Are the shoes sliding easily on the backing plate slide pads? Somtimes they will have groves worn in the pads that causes the shoes to stick before they will start moving. I have even had to weld the pads up and grind them smooth on some of them that were really deeply groved to fix that. Good luck (y) :nod:
 

Econoline

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Nice work! There's something very satisfying about rebuilding drum brakes to like new.
 

B RON CO

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Hi, to me it looks like the rear brake, drivers side has a small primary shoe in the rear. The front drivers side looks good. I would check the right rear and make sure you don't have two big secondary shoe on that wheel. Good luck
 

63flcn

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B RON CO":32ztsbkd said:
Hi, to me it looks like the rear brake, drivers side has a small primary shoe in the rear. The front drivers side looks good. I would check the right rear and make sure you don't have two big secondary shoe on that wheel. Good luck

Damnit. I bet you are right.

I also bet I have the pads flopped on the front passenger side because it does not feel right. IE: it feels like there is a high spot in the drum or something.

I guess I am doing the brakes again :thumbdown:
 

B RON CO

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Hi, while your in there, I would dab some white grease on the star adjusters, and where the shoes rub the backing plates, and I pinch the
c clip that holds the e brake lever fully closed. Good luck
 

bubba22349

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X2 B Ron Co is right! The first picture of the front wheel brake looks to be assembled correctly with the short secondary shoe in front and long primary shoe in the rear. :shock: That rear bake assembly got by me :banghead: yes it does look like its assembled backwards. Well if any of the other brake units are assembled incorrectly i.e. They don't have a short secondary shoe at each of the front positions (always facing the front of the car) and long primary shoes at the rear positions (always facing the rear of the car) then that will explain why you have uneven braking. In the below picture from your above post #16 it shows the correct assembly that you removed from the passenger side rear axle backing plate.

"Also attached is a photo of how the rear shoes/hardware came out. No self adjusters in the rear either. "

YB77TrN.jpg


The divers side assembly should be a mirror image of it. Sorry that's a major mismatch of parts for having correct braking operation, Hope you get it togeather right this last time. (y) :nod:
 

63flcn

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Passenger side shoes are in the correct order.

Noticed the drum has discoloration from heat, non of the others have this. This normal for new drums?

YTrLYNn.jpg

5jQz6Hb.jpg
 

bubba22349

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No that's not normal that would indicate that the brake shoes are maybe set to tight and dragging. Did the wheel turn easy? Try to set both of the front wheels shoes so they are equal. Test them by spinning the front wheels should be very little or no drag of the shoes. After that the self adjusters will keep them in adjustment with just normal driving. Make sure you are also setting the front wheel bearings correctly too. Good luck (y) :nod:
 

bubba22349

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HI 63flcn, were the rear brakes shoes installed wrong? Did you get all your brakes stoping in a straight line now without pulling to one side? :nod:
 

B RON CO

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Hi, I was looking at your brakes again and noticed you are missing the thick metal piece called the shoe guide plate. It goes on the top anchor pin before the cable and return springs. Good luck
 

63flcn

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Was able to get the rear shoes flipped around and in the correct orientation and adjusted properly. I greased everything up while I was in there. Car brakes MUCH better now. I adjusted all wheels so the shoes were tight against the drums then backed it out for proper amount of drag in the rear and no drag in the front.

Front brakes are a different story. Turns out more bad parts from MACs. The drum on the passenger side is warped. Confirmed it was NOT the spindle and the hub is flat against the drum. They are sending me a new one, then everything should be dialed in. Heres a video:


While I have been doing all this I swapped to a dual reservoir master from a 67 mustang as well.
ktRjbIt.jpg

iSYQsVB.jpg


B RON CO":2znf5loy said:
Hi, I was looking at your brakes again and noticed you are missing the thick metal piece called the shoe guide plate. It goes on the top anchor pin before the cable and return springs. Good luck

I doubled checked and it appears those were introduced later on? If you look at the 63.5 example I found online and posted above, it is not there either. Let me know.
 

bubba22349

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:banghead: Wow that's a really bad drum that's quite shameful. I don't remember the 9 inch drums having that shoe guide plate part like the 10 inch drum brakes had. Excellent on upgrading the master cylinder too is there a proportioning valve installed for front to back balance? Should be very good braking when your done. Could you maybe put on one of the old front drums to get by until you get the new one? (y) :nod:
 

63flcn

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I unfortunately don't have a way of pressing the hubs out of the drums, I had to pay someone to do it. They are not going to charge me when the new one comes in, which is nice of them. I asked them to verify the new one is true before installing.

No proportioning valve. Based on my research, as long as the master cylinder is from a front and rear drum brake Mustang it is not needed. The proportioning is built into the master cylinder.
 

bubba22349

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Yes I agree with you that a brake proportioning valve isn't always nessisary, some people like to use them, I have used them in severial custom car applications.

In looking at your pictures of the dual master cylinder install I see a potential problem because you didn't use a brake line distribution block to keep the front and rear brakes seperate. In looking at those pictures the brake lines appear to all be T'ed togeather turning that dual master cylinder back into operating again like a single master cylinder, correct me if didn't see all the brake line hook ups right.

In the below link you can see a picture of stock type brake master cylinder distribution block couldn't find a good picture of a Ford Dist. Block but they are all this same basic construction. If it was me I would pick one up at your favorite local wrecking yard for a Ford or Mercury car from the years of 1967 to late 1970's (some years after that too but then there are some that are metric). Get it complete with the short brake lines going into the master cylinder for a quicker install, they are bullet proof in their operation separating the front and rear brakes. It also has a sliding valve that seals off one axle in the case of leaking or damaged Hydraulic brake lines or a cylinders, this sliding valve will also attavate a switch that's wired to a dash warning light lighting it up when there's a brake failure. Good luck (y) :nod:

https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums ... pg.527423/
 

63flcn

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I think it is just the angle of the photo. They are not all T'd together, front is separate from rear.

Rear reservoir goes into a T that spits into FRONT LEFT and FRONT RIGHT.

Front reservoir goes into a T that splits into REAR and Brake Light Switch.
 

63flcn

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Waiting on a new drum. Heres a pic that shows how warped the drum is. Notice how much higher the left side of the photo is then the right.

SBIldBS.jpg
 

bubba22349

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:shock: yes that really looks bad. bet that much wable in the drum can put some vibration in the front wheel too. :banghead:
 

63flcn

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Yeah it was shaking pretty bad.

Was able to swap the old drum back onto the hub today and it spins smooth. Also replaced all the wheel bearings while I was at it.

New issue: The front brakes are not engaging at the same time. I adjusted the shoes all the way on and then backed out the same about of clicks on each.

Also, the front wheel cylinders stay engaged after the pedal is released. I can pull the pedal back to the top and you can feel there is some play, after 10 seconds, the cylinders catch up to the pedal.

Always something
 
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