Adjustment wheel all the way out with new cylinders & shoes

bubba22349

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Yep sometimes it takes a lot to get them right. Does the brake pedal have a return spring hooked on the brake / Clutch pedal hanger? With the pedal all the way up it should have 1/8 inch minimum free travel before touching the master cylinders piston. One other thing you might look into is the brake pedals bushings they are like a nylon and after this many years they might be worn out usally fairly cheap to replace, some people are using roller bearing kit in place of them for easier pedel movement. Best of luck (y) :nod:
 

63flcn

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It doesn’t seem to be related to the pedal.

There is roughly 1/8” of play before the pedal rod pushes the master cylinder.

After applying the brakes... wether or not I pull the pedal back to the top (1” left), the shoes remain against the drums. After about 10 seconds, the shoes retract. Doesn’t matter if I pull the pedal up with my foot or let it do it on it’s own.

Do I need to rebleed them? As I’ve mentioned and shown... EVERYTHING is now new. Maybe the new master cylinder is bad?
 

bubba22349

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From your description sounds like the brake shoes are not retracting properly. Did you see any wear marks into the backing plate guides? These are small rectangle raised blocks on the baking plate. For even wear of the shoes they should set at 90 degrees to baking plate and also slide very easy in and out on those slides. Sometimes if you listen you can hear the shoes sticking / jumping before applying and also when they return, instead of a nice quite even apply or return.

Might not hurt to blead the brakes again if you think there's a chance of any air in them. The master cylinder is the hardest the blead properly and for best results should be bench blead before install. Hope that helps you some. (y) :nod:
 

63flcn

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Backing plate guides had no wear marks. I greased them with white lithium grease. Maybe that wasn’t enough. I have to pull it apart again soon so I’ll make sure it’s all set in place. Any recommendations on grease?

Think I’ll bleed them too.
 

bubba22349

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I use the white lithium grease to. Usually get it in a large 32 oz. can from NAPA but I do lots of brake jobs, I also use a small brush to apply it onto the parts, it dosen't take very much a little dab. Something like this should work for you. https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/LUR10533

Main brake parts that move get a little grease, i.e. were the brake shoes slide on baking plates, the top anchor pin and round cut outs on top of shoes, the pin ends the go into the brake cylinders. The adjuster wheel threads, the adjuster ends were it slide onto the bottom of the she's, the adjuster arm were it slides on the shoe, the cable slide, the rear exmergency brake linkage were it pivots on shoe, and the cross bar ends at the shoe.

They also have spray cans of white Lithium grease (CRC, WD40, Liquid Wrench and a few others) this' works excellent for doing harder to reach areas like door latches, window regulators, hood hinges, hood and trunk latches, etc. :nod: (y)
 

63flcn

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I think I've got the brakes 90% of the way there.

The factory drums were not able to be turned as they were already at the limit. Napa replaced them at no cost for bending the last set.

Got them installed and adjusted and they stop even better now. Pedal feels good to and it returns to top on its own.

Last thing to do is bleed them. It brakes much better if I give it a quick pump before depressing the pedal. Assuming that means there some air in the line or not properly bleed. Let me know your thoughts.
 

bubba22349

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:beer: Excellent glad to hear of your progress! From your description it sounds as though everything is in very good order and there isn't any need to take them apart anymore. This lag of having to double apply the brakes would indicate three possable causes, that there may still maybe some air left in Hydrolic system or that master cylinders push Rod has to much free travel. Or that the brake shoes need to be adjusted a little more. Also the shoes still haven't bedded themselves into the new drums compleately yet so there will be better brakes with in about 200 to 500 miles of use with your new drums.

Try checking free travel first, to regally feel if this is right I get down near the brake pedal and use my hand to be able to feel the free travel better between a 1/16 to an 1/8 inch before starting to push the piston forward. After that try bleeding the brakes again to see if that helps. I am thinking it's going to be one of the first two If not do a few of the reverse stops as described above to check the final shoe adjustments. Best of luck (y) :nod: Edited
 

63flcn

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Front shoes drag with anymore adjustment outward. On the last set of drums that was causing them to overheat.

I'll check the pushrod free play but it was about 1/8'' or so last I checked. What I am describing is that I have more braking "power" if I give it a quick pump and then brake normally. It feels like there is much more force after a quick pump as the same amount of foot pressure if I don't.... I hope that makes sense. Maybe I am just over thinking it.
 

bubba22349

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Ok if you have an 1/8 inch of travel that ps great. Shoes should have only a very slight drag those front brakes may need to be backed off some especially if the drums are getting hot, to be able to get a little more matched or balanced braking. Check the rear shoes are adjusted out the same as front. Pumping the brakes is preloading the brakes and rasieing the Hydrolic pressure some. This can be from one set of brakes not applying as quickly as the other set. Front brakes do the majority of the braking job anyway around 65 to 80 percent depending on the car or truck. :nod: (y)
 

63flcn

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My issue with the fronts is that they do not stay centered (or assuming that is what it is). No matter how I set them and center them initially, after the first push of the pedal they drag in one spot. I have verified they are not hanging up on anything internally.

Basically the drum will do 75% rotation, then skim a shoe, then 75% rotation, then skim a shoe etc. Has done this with all 3 set of drums.

So they are backed off far enough this does not happen.

The rear drums/shoes are not doing this. I centered them and set to a slight drag and it has stayed that way.
 

bubba22349

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:hmmm: Well now we are getting somewhere I have seen this happen only a few times before. :shock: It's no wonder your having all this trouble with shoes dragging those drums were just not machined properly during their manufacture, so that after the drums are pressed on your hubs they aren't spinning in a true circle. To fix this you will need to have then turned just enough to get them round again and running true. Good luck. :nod:
 

63flcn

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I would agree with however I have had 3 sets of drums on, the factory ones, ones from MACs and now a set from NAPA. They all drag in the same spot. NAPA told me they didnt need to be turned. I don't know
 

bubba22349

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Yes for sure those brake shoes will eventually wear themselves into and conform matching the shape of the drums over a period of time and with more use, at that point you will then have your best brake operation. It all depends on how bad the problem is, if it's not draging all that bad than let it go and within that amount of time the problem will self correct. Turning the drums would just speed that all up the shoes would conform to the drums would practically be immediate. Drive it easy for awhile until everything wears into each other. Best of luck :nod:
 

63flcn

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Adjusted the front shoes out a few more clicks.

Car was pulling to passenger or driver side for no apparent reasons. Put new rubber lines on the front and that seems to have stopped it. Also made the ENTIRE braking feel better. Pedal is smooth and consistent and braking force is predictable now.

Once the shoes wear in a little more and I get the ball joints replaced I think we will be 100%
 

bubba22349

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:beer: glad to hear that you are making more progress on the brakes operation. (y) :nod:
 

B RON CO

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Hi, on the front drums, I would not loosen the adjustment. I know the scrape, no scrape you are talking about. I would adjust the shoes tighter, as long as the wheel still spins. The same on each side. When the shoes are adjusted up the pedal has very little travel.
Then drive it and if it feels good, leave it.
I have been known to bleed the brakes again, a week or so later, after using the car and guess what, you get a little more air that worked it's way through the system.
So if the brakes seem good after another adjustment, drive it a couple of weeks, then you can jack up a wheel, check the scrape scrape sound and do a final bleed. Hopefully all will be perfect.
Good luck
 

mustang6

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Did you mention if you changed the front flex hoses in all of this? I have had them deteriorate internally and create crazy unequal braking scenarios that I couldn't chase down mechanically. Fairly common when they fail to constrict inside so they act like a valve, won't let fluid through until it hits a certain pressure (delaying braking to that side when you hit the brakes), then holds onto pressure longer (dragging) when you release the brakes.
 
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