Alcohol for the Street

[Anonymous]

I have questions for future reference.

I can buy ethanol for $1.50 a gallon if I combine it with some thing that makes it non drinkable.
I have read that acetone will stop the alcohol from absorbing water if added at a 5% level.

: What else should be added?
: What octane rating will I have? I have seen reference sources list it from 113 to 160
: This alcohol is 194.8 proof. So it is not exactly pure, but is it close enough?

I'm just gathering information on cheap fuel for a weekend toy.
It's funny that this distillery has been here for 35 years and no one has ever used it for fuel.

John

 

[Thad]

I forget the ratio of alcohol volume to gasoline volume for the same amount of caloric energy. But it takes a bunch more alcohol. So $1.50 / gal is not the economic deal it seems. And you can not switch back and forth with the same fuel system without a lot of adjustments.
Fine for racing and great for very high compression or mega boost applications but a real PITA for street.
You will need a special fuel system, carb or injection set-up for alcohol, it is corrosive due to water content, erodes injectors and alcohol eat most rubber products normally used in a gasoline fuel system.

You can ran 10 to 12 % with gasoline if you jet for it, but you would have stay with that mix or re-jet each time you went back to straight gasoline.

Sorry

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Thad,

I'm not talking about a daily driver but a weekend warrior

Now methanol is very corrosive but ethanol is not. It's safe for rubber hoses and seals.
We store ethanol in carbon steel tanks at the distillery.

It's also a lot cheaper than racing fuel at the track.

John

 

[MustangSix]

You have to flow about twice as much fuel to get the same power. That's why alcohol carbs have such massive jets and fuel passages.

In terms of streetability, it can be done, but alcohol is harder to light when cold (not usually a problem in Florida), and you will burn twice as much of it making it kind of expensive.

 

[XFlow_Fairlane]

this is onyl worth it if you are building a boosted engine since the extra fuel will soak up alot of heat from teh aircharge.

nick

 

[Thad]

Week end warrior, OK, kick the tires and light the fire. That would work, Just don't try to tune a rich carb in a closed space. :roll: :roll:

Totally missed ethanol in your first post, reading faster than I can think, DUH.

It is ethanol that can be ran up to 12% with no problems, common in Brazil.

There were several ethanol plants built in the sugar cane area of Louisiana in the '80s when the price of oil made it a viable fuel supplement. And when alternate fuels were reaching a point of economical usage the price of oil dropped. Don't know if the plant were ever put in production.

 

[rbohm]

8) a few things to keep in mind;
1: the minimum proof you need for motor fuel is 160.
2: alcohol is, like brake fluid, hydroscopic so keep it in sealed containers, and run the tank as dry as possible before you put the car away, especially if you live in a high humidity area.
3: as was stated you need to run about twice as much alcohol as gasoline, but that only means that a lean mix for alcohol is 12:1. a normal mix will be something like 10-10.5:1 as opposed to 14.7:1 for gasoline.
4: you can run higher compression and more ignition lead than with gas, as alcohol is more detonation resistant.
5: tune the motor in open air, otherwise your eyes WILL be stinging badly(the voice of experience).
6: you might want to consider making your own fuel as you can control the quality, as well as the quantity. you will need to register with atf though, but that only means they wont send the revenuers after you for running an illegal still. as long as you stay at or under the maximum weekly production amount you dont need to pay taxes. if you decide to make your own fuel, there are a few good books on the subject. it has been a while since i bought mine(about 15yrs), so i dont remember the titles off hand. i found the first book in popular science magazine, and the second book in mother earth news. the books teel you what mods need to be done to a carb to run alcohol.

if you decide to run fuel injection, contact hilborn and get their expertise on your side as they have been doing FI since the 50's. www.hilborninjection.com is the website. while efi can be tuned for alcohol, i like to use a constant flow system, the the toughest part is getting a barrel valve that works properly at part throttle. i had the fun of tuning an alcohol system on a b/fa car in ahra racing many years ago. when they are right the throttle response is second only to a supercharged car. a real pita when the tuning is off though.

 

[Anonymous]

BTU's per Gallon:
Methanol: 56,800
Ethanol: 76,000
Isopropyl: 87,400

Latent Heat of Vaporization:
Methanol: 3340
Ethanol: 2378
Isopropyl: 2100

All three are 101 octane (RON+MON)/2.


-=Whittey=-

 

[Anonymous]

Hey Whittey,

What source did you get the 101 octane figure from? :

Now I've seen every thing from 101 to 160 Don't they know that I'm old and easily confussed!

What has me interested is the fact that I can get a good high performance fuel for one forth the price of racing gas. And that ain't bad

John

 

[StrangeRanger]

BTU's per Gallon:
Methanol: 56,800
Ethanol: 76,000
Isopropyl: 87,400

Latent Heat of Vaporization:
Methanol: 3340
Ethanol: 2378
Isopropyl: 2100

All three are 101 octane (RON+MON)/2.


-=Whittey=-

For comparison's sake
Gasoline BTUs per gallon: 127,650
Latent heat of Vaporization: 715 BTUs per gallon

Stochiometric air/fuel ratios:
Gasoline: 14.7-15.1 depending on source of info
Methanol 6.5
Ethanol 9.0

The high latent heat of vaporization of the alcohols not only reduces detonation, it also increases volumetric efficiency by cooling the incoming air charge. An added plus is that conbustion temperatures are low enough that NOX is not generated. You can run the engine piston-burning lean, eliminate nearly all unburnt hydrocarbons, reduce CO to minimal levels and generate zero NOX. Nearly the perfect fuel if only we could get around the hygroscopic thing.

 

[MustangSix]

And the fuel mileage thing. Refilling your tank every 150 miles is kind of annoying.

 

[Anonymous]

Floridaphatman, if you google for 'ethanol methanol isopropyl octane' there are a number of 'Homebrew Octane Boosters' FAQ's that come up for that info...

Also, 4.5:1 is stoichiometric for Isopropyl alcohol.


-=Whittey=-

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Whittey,

I ran a little test

I took two one gallon containers and filled them with ethanol. One had 5% acetone and one didn't. I left the lids off for 24 hrs. The proof of the container with no acetone fell by 24. The one with acetone fell by 1.5. So the acetone does help a lot.

Thanks for all the imput. For now I'm just making the world happy, one barrel at a time.

John

 

[Anonymous]

An extra bit of info for you:
http://www.fao.org/docrep/T4470E/t4470e08.htm
I believe the octane figures are RON, rather than (RON+MON)/2 as we use in the US.


-=Whittey=-

 

[xctasy]

Whittey, I loved that article

This is my idea of a Top Fueller

Drink and drive?Sure, as long as its just the big block in the front!