Another possible Turbo I6 on the way. Convince me guys!!

[Anonymous]

I'm planning a turbo Mustang powered by a 460 But that might take me 6+ months to complete. I need a turbo beater to tie me over until then.

The idea hit me like a pallet of bricks the other day when I was looking at an early-mid 80s I6 powered LTD thats just setting up at the shop collecting dust. I can probaly get it for $100. Fabbing the turbo kit looks like it'd be absolute cake compared to the turbo 460 Fox!! Also looks like I could do the whole setup for super cheap.

I've been talking w/some guys at turbomustangs and theyre all positive about the I6. I need it to be fast enough to beat lightly modded stangs and slomaros, as I will be doing quite a bit of "grudge" matches etc for $$$. The LTD would be a great sleeper.

Heres what I had in mind; Blowthru 2300 carb, stock GN turbo, w/a inj, 'custom' cool can, manually shifted C4 (transgo kit), slicks, 20# boost How does it sound? Think it'll be quick? What kinda #'s are other forced induction I6's layin down?? and is the 2300 carb the same thing thats on the 2 barrel v8s at the junkyard?

 

[trashline]

i would do some readin up in the turbo section. i am in the process of setting up a turbo for my inline. i am assuming this is a stock used motor correct? second i dont htin kit could handle 20 psi for a very long period of time. theres a guy here does10s has a turboed falcon with like 12 # on a stock motor i belive. i dont think the motor would handle 20. if your trying to do it cheap then its gonna be hard. alot of things are involved not jsut botl on a turbo and go. do you plan on using a stock manifold for the hot side or creating a header? you can always try it , if it doesnt work then lower the boost. i think you could run 12s with that setup if you work at it. the carb might be too small for that amount of boost. but i am sure someone will come along with more knowledge and better explain things

 

[Anonymous]

Search for ImportKiller's posts. He used a J-pipe from the stock ex. manifold to the GN turbo, (me thinks) a Holley 500. The last time I think he mentioned he was up to 12# with stock internals and a 4-main bearing 200 block and still spraying N20.

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I'm gonna use the factory manifold and stock longblock. I'm not worried about the fabbing. It'll be firetrucking cake compared to the 460 and big holset turbo Fox I have planned . I couldnt belive how simple it would be to do the I6 kit, as far as exhaust routing goes. I'm gonna run an open DP also, so it doesnt get much simpler than that

I've got a good mental picture of howto set it up w/the J pipe but I'm gonna look for ImportKillers posts to get some more ideas. Goes10s(or somthingalong thoselines) kit is the only one I've seen on the I6, and he has a custom manifold.

My goal is to go quick on a minimal budget. Shouldnt be that hard to do. What I'm not familiar with is the 2300 carb and exactly the mods to the 2 barrel carb for blowthru. Maybe theres a thread or website that details this??

I also considered stacked head gaskets for boost friendlyness, but I was told it isnt ness, as the I6 has a low comp ratio stock.

I would also like to know what kinda #s other FI inline6s are doing (turbo or supercharged) to get an idea of what this might do.

 

[Anonymous]

I've saved some photos of a turbo to J-pipe somewhere that I can send you. Also, get a later model head, the combustion chambers on those are pretty large then use the thicker head gasket and you're good to go. Pretty cheap and easy.

 

[Asa]

I've saved some photos of a turbo to J-pipe somewhere that I can send you. Also, get a later model head, the combustion chambers on those are pretty large then use the thicker head gasket and you're good to go. Pretty cheap and easy.

he said it's a mid 80s LTD, shouldn't that already have the late model head?

i dunno 'bout the LTD though... how much does that thing weigh?
you might go looking for a decent Maverick to toss the engine into, it'll add a bit more, but it'll weigh substantially less
or, toss it into the mustang body while you build the 460, they came in them in 79-82 i believe
depending on the year of yours, an I6 crossmember and a little fabbing should be all you'd need

 

[Anonymous]

Played with the numbers alittle while back. A 2000 lbs car only needs 225 RW hp to get to 100 mph in a quarter mile. Looking at mid 13's Increase the weight to 3200 lbs and your looking at 93 mph which is like a mid 14 quarter mile. To make 225 RW hp the motor needs to make almost 300 at the flywheel. Thats 1.5 to 1, hp per cubic inch in a 200. A gutted out Mav. should get down to 2200 lbs or so. The LTD on the other hand.....your looking at tons, instead of a.... ton.

 

[Asa]

would the LTD be a 250, or a 200 though?
and how much would that change it all?

i know that xtaxi is planning a build for me that'll have about 400HP/450ft-lbs at the crank, but that's gonna be a full motor build, not just slapping it together from el-cheapo stuff

 

[xctasy]

You don't need convincing, you just need to go crazy and do it!


The LTD II is a big fat Fox of about 3400 pounds without a driver. The 200 was the only in-liner offered. Ah, I remember getting Motor Trend as a 13 year old, and looking hard at the LTD II when the came out in 1983. It was soo cool to see Yank Tanks getting all Aero again after the bad old days of 8 mph bumpers and brick proportions! Why Foxes had to look so boxy when there are beauties like the Torino's, Fairlanes and Lincoln LSC's either side of that spell will allways bug me!

225 HP in a 2400 pound Maverick (which will weight 2600 pounds with a driver), well, thats 13.2 secs at 104 mph optimised.

The stock 200 has about 65 to 70 rear wheel hp, and around 83 to 90 hp flywheel net at 3800 rpm. That's a 20 second quarter mile as a stocker.

Adding a 9 psi turbo, a nice thick composite head gasket, a 350 cfm or 500 cfm Holley, is a boost of up to 80 hp. Thats 170 hp or so. Stock torque is way low at about 160 lb-ft, but a turbo adds over 100 lb-ft to 260 lb-ft. Thats just like an 82 5.0 GT 2-bbl! Can you say 16.1 second quarters with a set of 3.08:1 gears, with the C5 running to the 5000 rpm readline in second gear. If you can package a Does10's style intercooler out the front guard, then you'll get that.

No internal modes needed, but you'd be silly not to go for a head clean up, a new 264 cam, a double row timing chain. There is also the option of nitrous at your next rebuild. I know there's 250 hp there with just a squirt!

When stock 1963 2400 pound round body Falcon with 200 cubes can drop 13.6 second quarters with
a 3 speed manual,
a 500 Holley,
tube headers,
and a nitrous bottle,

then there is plenty of scope to make a real kick a$$ mutha out of the LTD.

At the wild end of the streetable 200 cube engines, then you must change gameplans. I don't agree that just an ME, SP, 2V or alloy head is the go. They are top heads, and yep, it'll bolt on 45 horses with the potential to do even more.

Real issue is that all hard charing carb turbo six in-lines end up dying becasue of detonation due to fuel distribution. Horspower is the ability to do work quickly.

Anytime you run a single carb on a 20 inch long intake manifold, you will have severe problems under lots of boost.

In Australia, the solution was to make a very good EFI type intake manifold, and ram feed it with a couple of CD175's. Enough for 180 hp as a factory bolt-on in the SL/T 3300 Torana, but up to 350 hp when they were taken out to 1.875". Even with one DCOE 45 weber and 14 pounds of boost, Hugh McInnes shows there was over 2.32 times the stock 88 rear wheel hp with a 186 cube engine.

With the log head, just a set of dual or triple 1 or 2-bbl carbs will work wonders. Independant runner set-ups are the best option for a turbo log going over the 250 hp mark

To hit the 400 hp mark just needs a Mustang Geezer style engine as a base, some durability mods to ensure there is no detonation or rod loss, and 20 pounds of boost with an intercooler. A streetable 280 to 300 is possible without any major fiddling.
Running a brace of port on port Weber 38 carbs without a blower will give an enourmus boost to stock normally aspirated performance. There is 185 hp there at least with a 264 degree cam on the log head. Add 12 pounds of boost to that, and you are into the 300's.

It's not rocket science. Drag200 noted that his draw through 200 leaned out on 2 and 5 when running the raggard edge. Simply because the fuel can't take the turns, and any fuel delivery issues with a single carb are only woorse when you turbo it.

Get one of these made up...

Or one of these

 

[Anonymous]

DBzOkole, those pics would be great!! Could you post up for all to see??

ol boy, I had NO idea the Mavs could be soooo light!! If I run across a cheap body I might consider. I like the LTD for its crazy sleeper style tho LOL

would the LTD be a 250, or a 200 though?
and how much would that change it all?

Actually I was told its a 250, but I'll check it out

The LTD II is a big fat Fox of about 3400 pounds without a driver. The 200 was the only in-liner offered.

3400 isnt that bad, or not as bad as I thought it would be. Shouldnt be that hardfor me to drop to around 3k. I was told its a 250, but youre probaly right

If you can package a Does10's style intercooler out the front guard, then you'll get that.

An air-air cooler is out of the budget range for this project (lol), my intercooler will consist of water/alky injecton (or is it 'anti det' ), and I'll have a cool can chilling the fuel. So its almost like I have 2, w/a cooling the charge, and chilled gas cooling the charge further... I guess *the charge would be way cooler than with just an air-air*. Couldnt hurt. I want to run a minimum of 15#, but really want togo 20 tho.

No internal modes needed, but you'd be silly not to go for a head clean up, a new 264 cam, a double row timing chain.

Actually, if I didnt stack head gaskets, I wasnt even gonna remove the valve cover :!: lol If the power gain is minimal, then I'd just wait, as the cam and cleanup work would be a large % of what I currently plan on spending... Maybe down the road.

There is also the option of nitrous at your next rebuild. I know there's 250 hp there with just a squirt!

NO WAY JOSE!!! I'm not a nitrous fan at all. For me, its turbos or nothing (N/A 8) )

When stock 1963 2400 pound round body Falcon with 200 cubes can drop 13.6 second quarters with

Isnt Goes10s Falcon around 3k#? Or just under? If I can get the LTD in the 3K range, I'll be happy.

And on the intake, the guy you said had bad lean problems, you said he was running draw through. Do you think the blow thru will be diff? Goes10s and ImportKiller both are using the log intake right? (and blow-thru) If it works for them, I'm damn sure gonna do it too (remember minimal budget ) and maybe in the future I could build a cool manifold. Not now tho.

I need to know what kinda #'s other FI I6's are laying down. It seems like if I've got a 3k# car, stock I6 (w/BT 2300 carb), T3 pushing 15-20# of chilled boost, manually shifted C4 (transgo), and slicks my times should be pretty good. Any 1/4 or 1/8 estimates guys?? Come on 8)

 

[Anonymous]

Does10s posted the weight of his Falcon a while back and it's below 3K, I can't give you the exact #s or the thread. The mid-eighties LTDs are two-door cars with the more-than-normal-slant rear windows? Those are big cars, I hope it is a 250 in that car.

Does10s has the log head 250 and ImportKiller has the log head 200, both are nice. Does10s has an intercooler dunno which brand. I believe ImportKiller has a volvo intercooler which you can probably find at the local pick-a-part for cheap. Here in LA you can get them for $50 each. You may want to consider this if you plan on 20# of boost.

I'll find those photos for you, they're somewhere in one of my machines, I just need time to find them. It's pretty detailed but I will not post them since the owner has not given me permission to post. I've gotten hollered at for doing this in the past. :roll: :roll:

You should "direct mount" that 2300 holley to the log. The Schjeldahls[sp] and mustang-geezer have perfected this. Geezer estimates 200hp on his naturally aspirated 200 engine, not bad huh.

Good luck, keep us posted. I'll hopefully get mine built soon.

 

[Anonymous]

Does10s posted the weight of his Falcon a while back and it's below 3K, I can't give you the exact #s or the thread. The mid-eighties LTDs are two-door cars with the more-than-normal-slant rear windows? Those are big cars, I hope it is a 250 in that car.

Yeah, I think youre talkin about the same 1 except this is a 4dr. Seems like itd be a 250...

Does10s has the log head 250 and ImportKiller has the log head 200, both are nice. Does10s has an intercooler dunno which brand. I believe ImportKiller has a volvo intercooler which you can probably find at the local pick-a-part for cheap. Here in LA you can get them for $50 each. You may want to consider this if you plan on 20# of boost.

But I've beenunder the impression that the w/a will be about as good as a cheap air-air with less intake plumbing. Am I not right? Filing the washer fluid bottle is no prob either, and it'll only consume the 'anti-det' mix when the motor is seeing boost, as I'll have it rigged up to a pressure switch 8)

I'll find those photos for you, they're somewhere in one of my machines, I just need time to find them. It's pretty detailed but I will not post them since the owner has not given me permission to post. I've gotten hollered at for doing this in the past. :roll: :roll:

thats cool, just PM me when you find them

You should "direct mount" that 2300 holley to the log. The Schjeldahls[sp] and mustang-geezer have perfected this. Geezer estimates 200hp on his naturally aspirated 200 engine, not bad huh.

isnt there some adapter for this? Where do I get it and how much does it cost?

Thanks for the replys guys, keep the tech comin!! And toss in some 1/4 and 8th estimates in too!!

 

[Anonymous]

You'll have to fabricate your own adapter for the holley. xtaxi's post above show one with three of those adapters. I'll pm/email you pics of other adaptes too.

oh, what's your email.

DB

 

[Anonymous]

DBz, you have PM. Wouldnt happen to have links w/prices would you?

O/T but seems kinda dead here during this work day. Are we the only ones sneakin to automotive BBS during work hours

lol

Back to the tech...

 

[Asa]

you should be able to search google for "stovebolt adapters" or check ebay
shouldn't be too expensive

but i think that the general consensus for the "best way" to do it would be to modify the head to make the hole bigger, if that's possible in your build up

 

[Anonymous]

you should be able to search google for "stovebolt adapters" or check ebay
shouldn't be too expensive

but i think that the general consensus for the "best way" to do it would be to modify the head to make the hole bigger, if that's possible in your build up

Cool, I'll check it out

 

[J.R.]

There were 2 types of LTDs in the 1980s. One was the big giant 4000+ lb. behemoth, while the other was a gussied up Fairmont. Huge difference in weight, maybe 1600 lbs.! That latter one could probably do alright. It's a Fox-body derivative chassis, so some early Fox Mustang chassis pieces might even fit.

J.R.

 

[xctasy]

The LTD II is a big fat Fox of about 3400 pounds without a driver. The 200 was the only in-liner offered. Ah, I remember getting Motor Trend as a 13 year old, and looking hard at the LTD II when the came out in 1983. It was soo cool to see Yank Tanks getting all Aero again after the bad old days of 8 mph bumpers and brick proportions! Why Foxes had to look so boxy when there are beauties like the Torino's, Fairlanes and Lincoln LSC's either side of that spell will allways bug me!

The car in question, a 'mont wilth all the coners shaved off!


200 was the only in-line option. The 2.3 was standard, 3.8 option, 5.0 LX was the ultimate Detective Mobile, with Mustang 5.0 running gear and a had a bad need for laying black lines with its 3.08:1 8.8" diff.