Camshaft considerations

tri-power 250

Well-known member
I have an opportunity to pickup a Crane PowerMax Mechanical #H-228/3067-2-12. As described by Crane: Fair idle, daily performance usage and high HP, 3200-3600 cruise rpm, 9.5 to 10.75 compression, Basic rpm 2500-6000. Lift int/exh: .460/.480. Advertised duration 290/300, @ .050 duration is 228/238. Lobe separation 112. I'm sure the lift is for 1.5 rockers.
The lift doesn't seem to encourage coil bind. The duration is my question, will this duration completely kill any hope in getting fuel mileage?
Thanks,
Ken
 
That is THE cam in my 250 its a mechanical cam , when comparing it to a hyd take about 10 degrees of duration away at .050 it runs out of breath on my motor at 5500 , on a 200 it would pull to 6 , it Idles at 16 in of Vacuum , but I have 12.3-1 compression , still its a performance cam , NOT for milage , but in a 250 with a stick it should still be decent
 
Sounds like a good cam. Like Faron says take about 10 degrees out @ .050. It would be like 218 I & 228 E comparing it to a juice lifter cam.
Make sure you have the proper springs as recommended on the cam card.
On a 200 you need 10.5 compression & advance it 2 degrees on a stick shift & 4 degrees with an automatic trans.
On a 250 i would install it straight up.
This cam is not for someone concerned about fuel miliage.
A solid lifter cam is only as good as proper valve clearance is adjusted.
Adjust it right & reap the benifits of a solid lifter camshaft. Bill
 
This is a standard cam for triple DCOE Weber 45 or 2" SU/Stromberg CD175 carbed six cylinder cars in Australia. Its very much like the Wade and Waggot circuit racing camshafts found in Aussie Speedway engines. In similar profiles in Aussie Chrysler slant engines in the 225 (to 245 bored out) size, or the Hemi I6 245 to 265 cubic inches, they have trouble making lots of extra power above 5300 rpm, but will still rev to 6500 rpm (5500 in the slant), even with a 1.56:1 rod ratio and long stroke engine. With 200 cubic inches, such cams make power to 5800rpm, but will rev cleanly past 6000 rpm. As such, the triple carbed Holden Torana XU1 GTR's and E38/E48 Chargers and with solid lifter versions of this cam always were under carbed even with venturi areas of 7.2 to 11.7 sq in. Consequently, peak rpm was always lower than in installations where bigger Weber DCOE 45/ 40 venturis or DellOrto DHLA 48/43 mm venturis were used. Then, the cam would rev to 7000 rpm in each installation, with power to over 6000 rpm. Basically, as soon as a cam like this gets independent runner air flow and enough carb area to reduce the idealised Weber chart super critical air speed to a low enough value, these cams produce unreal low end torque, but a wide, elastic rev range. An example was a famous 2V Ford Cortina circuit car in New Zealand with a cam similar to that, but with triple Dell Orto DRLA 48 /42's. It yielded a much better rev range. With smaller 1-bbl carbs, your rev range is pegged back to that of a 2-bbl 500 cfm Holley as three 1-bbls cary about the same venturi area as one big Holley 2-bbl.

When you drop down to a single 2 or 4-bbl carb with even a good intake design and state of the art booster venturi, the curb idle suffers hugely on these I6 engines with this cam, but if its set-up as a syncronised triple 1-bbl or 2-bbl carb engine, the idle becomes rock steady. Holley 2-bbls don't like big cam duration unless you can contol and contain fuel standoff with a good air cleaner and carb adaptor to maximise the distance from the carb entry to the intake valve. Power valve and pump squirter calibration cannot mask a big cam unless you are able to optimise the exhast closing event. These are reasons why wsa 111 has very specific terms for duration and cam retarding on his engines. I've exprienced in Pinto 2000 engines complete inabilty to create stasble off idle progression with just a 295 degree cam on a big valve SOHC Ford with just a Holley 500 cfm 2-bbl carb, yet a 390 cfm 4-bbl would work fine.

The profile above looks designed to reduce valve train load stress and allow over reving in situations when your between gears on a circuit. It won't produce problems with a way too high top end as the 200 and 250 I6 makes great effective compression, is long stroke, and has a rod leverage to crank throw ratio which drags the power peak down from a similar sized Chev L6 engine with bettwe bore to stroke and rod ratios.
 
8) the quick way to tell if this cam is good for fuel economy or not is to look at the rpm range the cam is designed for, in this case 2500-6500. that means it is a good performance cam for a street/strip engine. it is not a good cam if maximum fuel economy is what you are after. on the other hand with the increased power the engine will make, and if you have proper gearing, and a proper stall converter, you wont lose too much fuel economy, probably 3-5mpg depending on how well you can tune the engine, and what you baseline economy was.

it also depends on the rest of the combination as well. personally if i were looking for best fuel economy, i would not use that cam.
 
Thanks for all your answers. Fuel economy is not my biggest concern. I just don't want to build a fuel hog. I can live with a 15mpg car no problem. A 1mpg car wouldn't be fun to drive.
The engine will have 10.2:1 compression. The car will be a daily drivable car. The 4 speed has been a fun addition, next the engine and matching, to the engine, rear end gear. Probably a 3.5 to 3.8 gear.
Thanks again,
Ken
 
tri-power 250":2h5qosqk said:
Advertised duration 290/300, @ .050 duration is 228/238
wsa111":2h5qosqk said:
take about 10 degrees out @ .050. It would be like 218 I & 228 E comparing it to a juice lifter cam.
my hydralic cam is 214/224-110 lobe, and .450 lift with 1.5 rockers, can get .495 lift with 1.65 rockers. and I don't have the maintenance of adjusting my valves as often as you will have to. I am using street gas, with my 9.3 CR, and even with the cam degreed @ 11.5* advanced I was getting 20 city and 25-28 highway! in my opinion, if you can get the same performance out of hydrolic vs solid, I would go eaiser maintenance...

but then agian I don't know the advantages of solid cam vs hydrolic cams. and from what I do understand this cam isn't goign to be much different than my cam in a 200ci. Maybe someone can point me in the right direction.
 
MPGmustang":3fonmh10 said:
but then agian I don't know the advantages of solid cam vs hydrolic cams. and from what I do understand this cam isn't goign to be much different than my cam in a 200ci. Maybe someone can point me in the right direction.

8) in the old days, a solid lifter cam was able to run at higher rpms without valve float because the lifters didnt pump up like hydraulic lifters do. and if you adjusted the rockers to where the hydraulic lifters didnt affect the valve train as far as holding the valve open at high rpms, they tended to fail because the snap ring that held everything in place was usually fairly weak and not designed to hold everything together, as well as hold oil pressure as well.

these days though hydraulic lifters are much better, and the rpm differences are quite close, about 200rpm or so instead of 1000rpm.
 
For a daily driver i would choose the hydraulic lifter camshaft.

For occasional use or racing i would definetely choose a solid lifter camshaft.

You can get a profile with extremely faster lift rates than a hydraulic lifter camshaft.

This will require much stouter valve spring pressures to control the faster rate of lift. I'm talking seat pressures in the 135# area & 350# open pressure.

For everyday use this much pressure is more prone to wear. The camshaft would require a nitride process to up the surface hardness to resist wear.

The crane camshaft is in between as far as rate of lift goes. It would perform great if you didn't mind adjusting valves frequently.

For just street use i would pick the hydraulic camshaft just because of maintenance or lack of in adjusting valves. For your application i would go hydraulic. Bill
 
Ok , Having MECHANICAL Cams in ALL My Toys , and customers motors ,I have to say this --- the days of readjusting your lash have been over for years I check my lash ONCE a year and guess what , it dosent change , AND it wont unless something is wearing prematurely , here is a list The 250 six about 45 passes , checked when I pulled it out , NO CHANGE , My Blown 390FE Built in 1996 over 1000 1/4 mile passes ,NO CHANGE !! The 306 inch small block , NO CHANGE 5 years of NOTHING but 1/4 mile runs , 409 inch Blown Chevy Small Block 8 years Street Car , NO CHANGE , see a pattern , I do agree Hyd in our 6's are fine especially since the hardley ever see the high side of 5000 , oh and for spring pressures , with the small valves in them 105 on the seat and 250 over the nose is fine , if you want to turn 7000 youy already have the WRONG MOTOR
 
FalconSedanDelivery":rlejbgrw said:
Ok , with the small valves in them 105 on the seat and 250 over the nose is fine , if you want to turn 7000 youy already have the WRONG MOTOR

If you have a camshaft with 264 @ .018" valve lash & the duration @.050" is 234 degrees & the total lift is .568" you will need at least 135# on the seat & 350# open. The rate of lift & total lift determines the necessary spring pressures.

A mechanical cam with 100# on the seat is a mild street cam.

Yes the lighter valve train requires less pressure, but the sound of an engine with a radical valve rate of lift just has that sound & the performance to be proud of.

I would rather not discuss the camshaft grinder or the modifications necessary to achieve this, so don't ask. Bill
 
FalconSedanDelivery":1sbdylfa said:
I agree on the cam you just posted , BUT , we ( at least I thought we were ) talking about the mild Solid cam that started this discussion ,.

That is true,i was just making the point about the high valve spring rates.

To finalize if i'm going to run solid lifters i'm going to go the fast rate of lift design.

For normal street use the new hydraulic cams are maintenance free.

To use the fast rate of lift & high lift solids the complete valve train has to have the very best componets.

Full roller rockers, the best pushrods & the rest of the valve system top notch. Bill
 
Ok , Now we agree , LOL , the cam in My Blower car has Specs close to your ealier post and I run 135 on the seat and 425 over the nose , its seen 7200 :D ,
 
I bought the new cam and lifters for $75.00. Now I'm looking for the pistons, bearings and a really good harmonic balancer. I am also looking for a 3.80 8" gear set.
So far, my budget build 250 is well on its way.
Ken
 
Ken, pull up Mike's website classicinlines.com & he has the pistons, bearings & crankshaft balancers.

His prices are right & he can recommend whats needed.

The price on the camshaft was a good deal. Just make sure you have the proper valve springs for that camshaft. Bill
 
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