E85 ???

T

texacejr

Active member
My 82 futura with a 200-6 runs extremely rich due to the removal of smog equipment so I decided to try E85 ethanol.
All the sites I found stress the need for larger jets or slightly engaging the choke to richen the mixture. I also know ethanol will tolerate higher compression.
What I need to know is will it tolerate more timing advance and how much?
I'm very interested in converting this car over to E85 only for a test mule.
Looks like the fuel of the future with all the pollution concerns, high price of gas and renewable energy debate going on.
Any help will be very much appreciated.
Thanx in advance !!!
 
Yes it'll take a bit more timing due to the octane level of E85. How much will depend on the state of the engine condition. So some testing will be needed.
Just keep adding timing until it pings under load, then pull it back a few degrees.
Later,
Will
 
It will never ping with e85! I would add 4 to 6 deg's. the only way to tell is by power, but you will need a watch to test that...or a dyno!
 
what about degridation of seals, hoses, etc...? Wouldn't you have to change most of that. Can that stock fuel pump handel it?

just some thoughts.
 
Personally, I think E85 is a waste of time. It's going to cost just as much as regular gas, you don't get as good mileage, and you lose a little power. It doesn't reduce emissions either becuase since three way cats are used now, no emissions are coming from the tailpipe. They're also not going to start selling E85 at every gas station. That's just my opinion though, more power to you for trying it. I hope you have success with it.
 
actually the whole east coast is switch to a ethonal mix and all the stations have to clean there tanks out by may 1st, guess thats thanks to good old c.a.r.b. i wander how it will affect performance, damn emissions :cry:
 
So far all I have done is add 10 degrees initial timing and reset my vaccuum operated choke pulloff to leave a smaller opening. Cold starts don't seem to be a problem with this setup yet.
Car also seems to pull harder but I can't tell on fuel mileage yet.
Biggest drawback is that the closest station with E85 is 20 miles away. The station I buy E10 from (owned by same CO.) is only 3 miles but on the way to work. They are supposed to start selling E85 there but no word as to when.
Will post results as I get them.
Thanx for the help.
 
Titleist16":3dbvztfe said:
Personally, I think E85 is a waste of time. It's going to cost just as much as regular gas, you don't get as good mileage, and you lose a little power. It doesn't reduce emissions either becuase since three way cats are used now, no emissions are coming from the tailpipe. They're also not going to start selling E85 at every gas station. That's just my opinion though, more power to you for trying it. I hope you have success with it.
Click to expand...

If you take full advantage of the fact that E85 is 104 octane by raising the compression ratio, you can gain back the power and the economy. Just something to think about
 
jgetti":11m1ct7s said:
Just something to think about
Click to expand...

here`s another thing to consider.

there are some interesting PDF and PPS to be found on a google search using the keywords "E85" and "corrosion", as well as some fascinating SAE publications.
 
Question...if I'm running too high a compression ratio right now for a blower, if I switch to E85, can I run a blower then??
 
Geezer 300,
It will definately help over normal pump gas. 103-105 octane vs. 91 will always help a super/turbocharged motor. And E85 also helps because of the cooling effect that alcohol has over gas.
Will
 
"What happens if you just run it without switchin nothin?"

2 problems so far
(1) Cold starts are hell if I don't reset the choke vacuum pulloff
(2) E85 pump was out of order last week, so I had to use E10
(This of course resulted in the need to reset Choke pulloff again)

Looks like I'm going to have to design a threaded rod to set and reset the choke pulloff for these issues.

Will post as I go.
 
texacejr":1rj4qnso said:
"What happens if you just run it without switchin nothin?"

2 problems so far
(1) Cold starts are hell if I don't reset the choke vacuum pulloff
(2) E85 pump was out of order last week, so I had to use E10
(This of course resulted in the need to reset Choke pulloff again)

Looks like I'm going to have to design a threaded rod to set and reset the choke pulloff for these issues.

Will post as I go.
Click to expand...

This may be a good application for a manual choke.
Joe
 
don't forget that E85 is corrosive...it may damage your carb/fuel lines/fuel tank/pump...

E10 is fine to run in anything...Here in Minnesota-state law requires a 10% blend of ethanol in EVERY gallon of gas sold...

Step up the compression, advance the timing, figure out a way to deal with the corrosive nature of E85... E85 is cheaper here (I saw $1.69 versus $2.27 for 87 octane).

Is E85 worth the time? Hmmm do I want to send my money to the middle east and south america or do I want to send my money to hard working american farmers?

A lot of E85 is being made from a by-product of beer...I think Coor's is big into this...

Drink beer, use renewable fuels, put money back into the US economy rather then send it overseas, refineries mean jobs for Americans...As if I needed a reason to drink to beer...

But I geuss Titlest16 and the other naysayers probably have good reasons to trash E85.
 
Pick up the new issue of Car Craft, they outline everything you need to do to safely run E85 with a carbed motor. They also explain all the pro's and con's to it.
 
Megasquirt users have hacked th eGM flex fuel sensor and have code to run it. once I get my MS motor up and running and I can find a sensor I am going flex fuel. I can't get it down here very easily but will be nice to have the option.
 
RE: e10

I don't really like the stuff at all. I'm over in stillwater, MN a couple times a week and usually try to fill up in Wisconsin when I can, as ethanol isn't required in 'sconnie as far as I know. Usually results in a happier engine, more torque, a little better economy. If i was building an engine, i'd set it to run 91/92 octane as that can be had in MN without ethanol. It's illegal, but I think not having the choice of what gas to put in my car is just as bad.

I can't imagine the total system efficiency of ethanol production as being very good. Most of it's made from corn which is quite intensive to produce, especially since most of the fertilizer uses massive amounts of natural gas in production. Plus, half the energy in whatever you're fermenting is used in the fermenting process, and isn't recoverable with anything but a Stirling engine. If you want biofuel, Diesel is a much better option at around 80% recovery in the fuel, with the other 20% or so in glycerine which has either high energy to throw back into the process (heat for cooking) or good market value.

ok, rant over
E
 
Check out the last issue of Consumer Reports. They go through the whole E85 thing. In their tests, they needed 20% more fuel to go the same distance as gasoline.
In the Wall Street Journal, they had an article about two weeks ago reporting how boat owners were having no end of problems with the fuel gumming up the valves and jets. PLUS the ethanol is a solvent and it is melting their fiberglass and hard plastic fuel tanks.
What CR said is that the whole E85 thing is for corporate fuel credits for flexible fuel vehicles like SUVs. It's so they can get a pass on gas guzzlers.

Personally, I'm waiting for solar cars.
 
The one advantage that E85 has over gasoline is a higher octane number. I can't seem to find two sources that exactly agree on a number. However, all sources seem to indicate an octane around or above 100.

Of course, you can't easily set up a Flex Fuel engine to take advantage of the increased octane. So, you are stuck with the inherent fact that there is less energy in a gallon of E85 than in a gallon of gas.

If you set up a dedicated E85 motor, you could really up the compression or boost it. If my memory serves me well, Does10's uses E85.
 
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