f- series

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hey what can u guys tell me about that whole f- series ute thingy-ma-bobs i really like sum of em.... i know a little bit bout em... just wanna know more bout the older ones?? 2WD? 4WD? diesels? petrols? difference between serieses 100, 150 250 350 etc etc? no need to bust ya balls writing an essay for me just a brief story would be appreciated :) and oh yeh y r they still so dam expensive for an old car???

matt
hope ya all had a good christmas
new years next
 
Ok I leared 2 drive in an F100, a 1969 beast. I have justs bought my baby, a 1976 F250 with a 302 V8. I have owned a beast 1970 F100 parts truck and today I got a spare 250 sixcylinder and 4 speed out of a 76 F100. My uncle was the local rev head when he was young with a 78 V8 F100. Yeah so basically I love F' series and have worked on several.

OK now the early F'a series were rounded in shape (I don't likle them much). All F series are easilly identifyable as ther year, because each year has their very own front end. The bes in my opinion are the 70's modles, because they have a nice beefy square bonnet and a chrome front end, the 60's were square too but they had a metal front end the same colour as their body. After about 1985 they took on a more areodynamic front that I don't like. 1980-1985 also got more plastic. They are ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL to ride in. F100 should be in the English dictionary under 'Smooth'. I know of no other vechicle that can ride a corrugated dirt road better than a big F100. Inside they have nice steel dashboards up untill about 1975-6 when they went to a steel top and vynal front. They are very tasteful.

Under the bonnet is amazing!! Most people cannot believe the ammount of room under there. You can sit in their engine bays and work on the donk. I know a bloke who carries his chainsaw in the engine bay of his F100 custom. OK the donks. F100 sixes - 240 and 300 (yes 300, 5 LITRE SIX CYLINDER!!!!!!) are 2 sister engines. They are built on the same block and are extremely torquey, and are known as 'Canadians', as you can guess built in Canada. I think in later modles the 300 got fuel injection in the states, but basicaly they are 1 barrel carb motors and neither are still made today. They can be greatly improved with different carbs and extractors. 250 motors exsist in some F series, both crossflows and pre crossflows.

V8's in Australia are the 302 and 351 Cleveland, a 4.9 litre and 5.8 litre donk built on the same block. Carbs were 2 and 4 barrels, and the Cleveland is an extremely high prefroming engine.

They were also fitted with 289, 302, and 351 Winsors in the USA. the 289 and 302 Winsor ar 4.7 and 4.9 litre engines built on the smae block, 2 and 4 barrel carbs. The 351 Winsor is similar just with a 1" taller block hight, 5.8 litre, 2 & 4 barrel carbs.

Also in the US was the 390 big block V8, 351M and 400 Cleveland. The 351M and 400 Cleveland use the same heads as our Ausie 2V 351 and 302 Clevelands, but have a 1" taller deck height. They have bad reputations as being sluggish but it was because they were choked by emmissions laws (they have great potential for truck performance) The 400 cleveland has the longest stroke of any ford V8 and was the last pushrod V8 designed by Ford. The yanks also had the 429 and 460 Big Blocks, two 7 litre and 7.3 litre V8's built of the same block.

In around 1986 Ford brought in the 6.9 litre V8 diesel and increased it to 7.3 litres in about 1988. Both the 6.9 and 7.3 are built today in their new 'powerstroke' guise. Today they are computerised and I think turboed too.

Some of the early F series used 292's and 360's I think, pretty shitty old gas guzzling low preforming donks.

Transmissions were mostly 4 speeds in Australia, but 1st and reverse were vey low an not syncroed. You basicly drive them as a 3 speed and don't use 1st unless you got a huge load or a VERY steep hill.

A 5 speed was avaliable from the last half of the 70's onwards. Not sure what the early ones were but the later ones were the ZF 5 speed, a very strong clunky gearbox.

Now we get to the autos. Why you would want to deface and destrouy a beautiful ute with an AUTO!!! is beyond me but there are some sick minded individuals out there who do, and the slush boxes vary form FMXs, C4s, C6s and C10s

The mighty legendary FORD 9 INCH diff was standard in the F'series. Avaliable in both Limited Slip and Open configurations. F250s were fitted with bigger diffs again and 8 stud wheels, verses the normal 5 studs.

Most were 2WD but quite a few F100's are 4x4. Some F250's are too, and converting a 2wd to a 4wd is not that hard.

An F100, F150, F250, and F350 are similar except the higher the number the beefer the suspension and the heavier load they can carry, 1ton, 1.5 ton, 2.5ton, 3.5ton. The F600, F700, and F6000 are a bit different and are basically trucks.

Costs: For a 70's modle, a rip of car dealer will charg $10,000 or more. They can go jump, get one in a private sale. Shop around, good ones can be had for $5000 or less, you just got to find them. They are good utes, not plastic crap,

335C
 
fordclevo":jkaah6ie said:
Been stroking it, have we? :wink:

Matty: Watch for tinworm in the same places as a one-tonner, plus in the roof. Panels are dear - especially bonnet and doors. Hinges are $70 or so each rebuilt - and they need it! My pick is 1970-73. Padded dash came in '74. Don't buy a 4WD unless you really do need it.

Armrests are bloody dear. A mate swapped a 1967 F-350 for a pair of them. :shock: If you don't mind a custom inferior, buy one that's a bit rough inside, and play around some.

Look for an ex-ambo with a fibreglass rear. Good luck, and kick a lot of tyres first...
 
335C

Stroking?? No.

The Cleveland V8s; the 302C, 351C, 351M and the 400 belong to the 335 Series of ford engines, like the big block 429's and 460's are from the 385 series. 335 refers to the engine's series, not their cubic inch displacement. C stands for cleveland,

335C
 
thanx fordclevo!! helped out a lot!
whats the weight comparison in these compared to well lets say an XF falcon?? is there anypoint making one of these babys a abit of a v8 sleeper, or they just best left for looking and sounding sweet?? just a cruiser........ i really like both ends of the barrel, ive seeen and would love to go for one with the full body tray, 2wd dumped on its arse with huge rims!! reminded me of all those "lowluxes" you see around only about 6 times bigger!! and at the same time love the look of the jacked up tray backs, for example this perth dudes 350: http://members.iinet.net.au/~mattk/psc/cars/water2.jpg
http://members.iinet.net.au/~mattk/psc/cars/water1.jpg
i guess u know him hey mike??

i dont have intentions on buying one.......... yet........... just kinda wanted to brush up on aditional ford info :)
cheers guuys!!
-matt
 
>>thanx fordclevo!! helped out a lot!
>whats the weight comparison in these compared to well lets say an XF >falcon??
F series ar A LOT heavier. Just an F100 grosses around 2 tone. An F250 is considerably more.
>is there anypoint making one of these babys a abit of a v8 sleeper, or >they just best left for looking and sounding sweet?? just a cruiser........ i >really like both ends of the barrel, ive seeen and would love to go for >one with the full body tray, 2wd dumped on its arse with huge rims!! >reminded me of all those "lowluxes" you see around only about 6 times
Yeah I have heard of an F100 doind 10 second quaters but it had a bored and stroked 460. The burn a shitload of fuel when hotted up to the max and runnig full throttle. But you can get one with a decent 351 or 302 Clevo and do a little bit of work and the go pretty good and are not too expensive or thirsty is you lay offa them a bit. I wouldn't lower them, but thats just me, u can do it. If you go for a styleside tray watch the rust!! There very cancerous
>>bigger!! and at the same time love the look of the jacked up tray >backs, for example this perth dudes 350: >http://members.iinet.net.au/~mattk/psc/cars/water2.jpg
>http://members.iinet.net.au/~mattk/psc/cars/water1.jpg
>i guess u know him hey mike??
yest that F350 is made after 1980. Notice the plasticy front end and the more areodynamic (slopey) bonnet?

335C
 
That F350 is an 82-85.5, It has the Ford script grille, with the indepent front suspension, 80-81 have ford in letters on the hood, with an eggcrate grille, and, the 85.5 up F350 4x4's have a solid front axle...

For 80-86, you're looking at a 300, 302W, 351W(post 1982), 351M in through 82(can be found through 84 though), and 460(7.5L, not 7.3) the 6.9 Diesel was introduced in 1983. I'm not sure what Aussie engines were offered, but, I have seen 80-86 Aussie trucks with X-flows.

For the older trucks, you will find just about anything Ford built, depending on what year it was... Clevo isn't quite clear in his explination, of what engines were avalable when...
The 302W became avalable in 69½(went EFI in 1985) and was in ford trucks without skipping a beat until 96, when they switched to the mod motors.
The 360 and 390 FE big blocks(same block) came online around 67 or so, with the 360 replacing it's 352 CI predecessor(also FE series.) They were offered through 76, With the 400 coming online in 76, followed shortly by it's little brother the 351M. The 400 was offered until 1981 or so. The 351W 2bbl came out in 82, and, the 351HO 4bbl came out in 84, and replaced the 2bbl 35W by 85½(went EFI in 87). The 460(EFI in 87.5) was first offered in trucks in 1973, and was in production through 79, but, only avalable in 2wd trucks, it was out of production in light trucks until 1983, when it was re-introduced alongside the "new" 6.9L Navistar diesel, and, was offered in a 4x4 from the factory for the first time.
The base engine through all this was the BB6, the 240 from 65-73, with the 300 optional, and, the 300 became base from 73 on, as the 240 was dropped from production.

For transmissions, the Ford C4 and C6 automatics backed most, if not all of these engines, with the AOD becoming avalable in 80 behind certian 302W equipped trucks.
For manual transmissions, until the 80's, you will find either a 3.03 3 speed manual with a column shift, or a 4 speed with a non syncronised compound low(B-W T-18/98 or NP 435.) From 80 Up, you will find those three, with assorted 3 speed/od boxes and the T19 4 speed(syncronised compound low) thrown in the mix. The F-Series did not gain a 5 speed until 1987 in the F150/F250 LD, and, 87.5 on the F250HD and up.

A Short Box Flareside 80-86 F100/150(100 was dropped in 84, with the light GVWR trucks just becoming F150's) 2wd weighs in at 1600KG or more, and, that's about as light as you're gonna get.
Sure, you can build a decent performer out of one, but, keep in mind, it is a truck, it's heavy as old hell, and as aerodynamic as a brick.

My F250 probably weighs in excess of 2500 KG empty... But, it is a 4x4 with a 460(335KG or so dry), a cast iron 4 speed(good 80 KG), and a full floating rear axle that weighs a good 275 KG on it's own, not to mention the 4x4 related bits. I know for a fact that the framerails in it are a good 6.5mm thick(this is why: http://www.bigblocksix.com/f100swb/f250/IMG_0019.jpg Kinda shortened my chassis) It's far from something you'd build a go-fast machine out of, but, if you want to tow your house through a bog, it's up for it. For my engine/transmission/axle combination, max GVWR(truck and load combined) is 4000KG, the max GCWR(gross combined weight rating, truck and trailer) is 5216KG, if I had a slushbox, it'd be 5443, with 4.10 gears and a slushbox, it'd be 8391 kg. It's also built to stop it... The brakes on the front have 12" discs and dual piston calipers, rears are 13x3" drums.

My F100 OTOH, only had a 2150 KG GVWR, and, a 3000 KG GCWR because it was equipped much lighter and had much smaller brakes, and a less powerfull engine(a 'Canadian' 300.) I don't know why the 300 got the Canadian name slapped on it... I have seen many Cleveland OH built 300's in Canada, and have only run across 2 Windsor bult ones. The 300 was produced pretty much the same from 65 up until 1987, when it received MPFI, and, it was in production as a truck engine from 1965 through to 1997. It was built as an industrial engine(still carburated) until 2000.

As for room under the bonnet, well, even with the 460 with all the a/c junk, there's room:
460.jpg

and, with a 300, it's bloody spacious:
New3004.jpg


Mind you, those are both 80-86 trucks, which are less roomy than their predecessors.
For comparison, this is my 78 with a 351M(I think you guys were lucky enough not to get that engine...)
IMG_0016.jpg


You should see what a 302W looks like in there...

Hows that for a pile of semi-organised, semi-usefull info typed by a silly Canadian at near 2:00 in the morning?
Evan
 
Not too bad champ!! But it's not 2 in the morning here in Australia, it's heaps earlier,

335C
 
well i really dont hink i can ask for any more info.... i mean between both of you guys i musta learnt nearly everything there is!!!!!! hahahahahah im still young and want my performanz, so i think i mite leave my f-truck project until im older and appreciate the other aspects of driving! lol

happy new year to everyone (when it comes)
ill be partying hard, hope u all will..... i gotta alotta holden poof friends to out drink.. lol

-matt-
 
No worries mate,

Your young? Hey I only turned 18 a few weeks ago!! You could try what I do - I have my 302 V8 F250 for driving and a 1978 351 V8 Falcon for perfomance.

335C
 
mattxf said "i have a lot of holden poof friends to outdrink"

so do I mate!

with regards to F series: fuel economy ? whats that?

my old man used to drive them as an ambo when we lived in the wheatbelt. he reckons at 170 clicks you could see the fuel guage needle sliding down (used to about 4.5 kms to the litre at that speed in the ambulances)
so dont get one unless u got a big wallot
cheers smythee
 
My mate's got the old ambo... We once laughed ourselves silly: Zooming along the motorway in the fast lane; all the cars pull over 'cause they don't realise it's not an ambo any more. It was like being the only car on the road.

LPG is one way of dealing with the 351's fuel thirst, but the 300 is a better motor in some applications.

Pat: Pity your GM loving mates. They pay too much for their cars, also a lot of the older spares are Asian made. The new Falcon utes have really made the HQ-WB series worthless over the next five years.

I passed on a clean, original 202 HQ tonner for $500. That's what I think of 'em.

Cheers, Adam.
 
hmmmmm, yeh im not looking forward to my first 351, but oh well guess ill just put up with the petrol, if i really cared bout it i wouldnt get 1 :) ...... anyway ill prolly wont be able to bring myself to selling my car i have now when the time comes and just keep mine as the daily driver..... even tho that still only gets about 400km to 66L tank!

hows this tho, mates got a AU XR8 ute........ 600km to a tank!!!!!!!!! grrrrrr

-matt-
 
If you only want a 351 for it's sound and looks, you can go past a good little 302 cleveland with a mild hydrallic cam, a 500CFM 4 barrel and small tube extractors. Its got the bark and EXACT look of a 351C with greatly reduced fuel costs. A large number of 351's out there are actually 302 pretenders, the two engines are identical except for rods and crank.

335C
 
yeh, i had considered a 302, but well, 351 seems better ay! hahahaha nah im not gonna be building one up, its gonna be whateva the car has when i buy it, and generally EVERYTHING ive seen at least claim to be 351's.
also, i had a mate that had a 302 rebuilt with mild cam in a XB panno, and it didnt really impress me much, so i figure y not 351 petrol guzler....

what kinda "consumption" do any of you guys with 351's get?? just wanna know how bad i need to expect..... mates 302 was getting 350km to 60 odd litre tank.

ive also got my eye on a mate of a mates XB coupe, which has had nearly a ground up rebuild, worked 351 on gas, awesome tiger mica type gold colour with silver stripes *drool* very very nice.... but im trying to hold temptations for a few months until money permits a little better.... cant afford to do up a XF 6 and run a 351 XB at the same time :cry:

-matt-
 
If you have a worked 351 and you hound it, it'll do 6-10 miles per gallon, look at 8 miles per galon as average for a screaming 'five one. Drive it easy and don't open up those secondary barrels you might get 15 or 16 miles per gallon. A 302 might get 20 miles per gallon if you take her easy and keep it well tuned. I have hear of 351's getting up to 23 miles per gallon but i suspect the bloke that was trying to tell me that had been smoking something. I doubt a clevo is going to get much over 20, but it's all on how you drive and what you have done to the motor. A tunnel ram or somehting like that means <10 mpg.
The 302 Clevo can be built up pretty well, but it's easier to change it to a 351. Measuring the stroke or reading the cast on the crankshaft is the ONLY way to verify a 302 or 351. Of course everyone says its a 351, because it sounds better and you can't tell from the outside.

335C
 
The 9.206 inch block height 302C's had 2V closed chamber "quench" heads (57 cc), while the 2V 351C's had 75 cc open chamber heads. 4V heads were 57 cc, but had huge ports. Then you'll see Thermoquad 9800 equiped 302 C/351C "4V's" that weren't 4V headed. Then there were the odd US/Canada import with 10.306 tall deck height 400Ford or 351M 2V V8 blocks...boy Ford were confusing. I've found, rather than pulling the sump off and looking for 4MA or somesuch on the crank, its easier to grab some weldong rod, rip out the right front plugs, set the engine to top dead centre, and mark off with a pen the drop of the wire from TDC to BDC. If its:-

76 mm, it's a 302C,
89 mm, 351C/M,
102mm, a 400

Apparently the Cross flow sixes were fairly common, with less emmision gear than Ford Sedans and Falcon Utes, and they didn't ever dump a 3.3 in a F150!
 
Yeah mate your dead right,

Thats what I meant about 'measuring the stroke', 302, 3" 351, 3.5" 400, 4". The 400 and 351M are in the same boat as the 351C and 302, with identical blocks. There were boss Cleveland heads too, with single groove valves which were better for high rpm. Just as a matter of interest the best clevo heads you can get are the 2V closed chamber heads of a 302, with 4V valves installed.

335C
 
The more I hear about V8s, the more I feel like buying an A-class Merc...
 
fordclevo ------------ im a young aussie..... miles, gallons means nuthin to me ---------------- hows about liters, kilometers! :lol: CHEERS

matt
 
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