1st let me say thanks to everyone with there input on lifter removal. I went to autozone and for less then 8 bucks, I had the tool in hand, and when done I can return it for a full refund...., not trying to cheat anyone,thats how they loan (rent) their tools. Ok with that said and done, I have a new question. I plan on a total rebuild on this block which has the number of D8BE, which I understand it to be a 78 vintage. It is going into a 65 mustang. Ok, so, completed the tear down of the block, (had 3 lifters break at the ridge from the puller) and I am concerned as to the rods. Rod number 1 and number 6 both have a part number of C3OE and a different type of rod cap. Rods 2-5 have a part number of D8BE and a more solid type of rod cap. Is this normal? I don't have access to a gram scale but my concern would be a weight difference. The pistons on rod #1 and # 6 are a different style on the underside from rods 2-5. Pistons 1&6 are both marked std, the others have no markings. The rod bearings as well as the crank bearings have no markings as to being oversize, so I belive everything is stock size. I think I have a good platform for a rebuild , but the pistons and rods concern me. Any input would be welcomed. I find this forum to be very helpful and thanks in advance for any help. Van
ford 200 rebuild questions
- Thread starter Idastang
- Start date
early ford fan
Well-known member
it sounds like whoever rebuilt it last time replaced a couple of rods and pistons.to me the rods should be alright it they weigh the same.the pistons all should match and be the same size.im sure someone will add to this.
A few years back (OK more like 7) I bought off this forum a "recently rebuilt" engine from a guy who was going to stuff a big block in a recently purchased '66 Mustang. I basically bought the short block for $75. Anyway, I decided to measure what I could and I'm very glad I did. I measured the #1 piston about 0.060 below the deck, the rest of the pistons were in the 0.030 range. I finally took the #1 piston out and found a casting number of C1XX on the rod; the rest of the rods had C3XX on them. At that time I was working at an R&D facility and was able to weigh the rods on a fairly accurate scale, 4 places past the decimal in grams. The #1 rod was 17 grams lighter!!!! All the rest of the rods were within 2 grams of each other. Obviously I had to take the piston/rods to a machine shop and they pushed the pins out for me.
I purchased a rod from the local Murray's/Kragens/O'Reilly's. I again weighed it and it was about 15 grams too light. It had a C1XX code on it. I returned it and they sent another one. The second rod had a C3XX code and was within the 2 gram range of the other 5. I used that one.
I'm sure the person who "rebuilt" the motor was saying, "its only a six". But the 0.030 difference in the length calculated to a 1/2 point lower compression for just that cylinder. I'm sure the weight difference would have affected the balance too.
Personally I'd do the same thing I did: take the piston/rods out and have a machince shop press the pistons off. Then measure the individual length and weight of the rods AND pistons. Get a matched set adn have the machine shop press the pins back in.
I purchased a rod from the local Murray's/Kragens/O'Reilly's. I again weighed it and it was about 15 grams too light. It had a C1XX code on it. I returned it and they sent another one. The second rod had a C3XX code and was within the 2 gram range of the other 5. I used that one.
I'm sure the person who "rebuilt" the motor was saying, "its only a six". But the 0.030 difference in the length calculated to a 1/2 point lower compression for just that cylinder. I'm sure the weight difference would have affected the balance too.
Personally I'd do the same thing I did: take the piston/rods out and have a machince shop press the pistons off. Then measure the individual length and weight of the rods AND pistons. Get a matched set adn have the machine shop press the pins back in.
My motor is a D8BE block.
My rods were all D8 rods but were all cast iron. I just bought 6 reconditioned rods that are all C3 rods off Ebay. The C3 rods are forged steel which is about as good as you can get for a factory rod.
I cant imagine cast iron and forged rods weighing the same. Just me but I would want 6 matching rods of same type. If it were me I would look on Ebay and buy 4 more forged rods. I just checked and guy is still listing rods at $31.99 each.
The rods are all reconditioned but I am still having machinist magnaflux them and measure them and install ARP rod bolts which Mike at Classic Inlines sells. Then they are getting the beams polished, lightened, and getting static balanced.
On my pistons the data was on the underside of the piston by the pin boss area. Mine were .010" oversize.
Data on the bearings was on the backside and were standard.
Looking at the Ford Six Performance Handbook we see that...
Rods for the 170/200 to 1972 are forged steel. (Cx-D2)
Rods from 1973 to 1978 can be cast steel, cast iron, or nodular iron. (D3-D8)
Rods from 1979 are cast steel (D9)
Rods from 1980-1981 are nodular iron. (E0-E1)
Rods from 1982 are forged steel. (E2)
My rods were all D8 rods but were all cast iron. I just bought 6 reconditioned rods that are all C3 rods off Ebay. The C3 rods are forged steel which is about as good as you can get for a factory rod.
I cant imagine cast iron and forged rods weighing the same. Just me but I would want 6 matching rods of same type. If it were me I would look on Ebay and buy 4 more forged rods. I just checked and guy is still listing rods at $31.99 each.
The rods are all reconditioned but I am still having machinist magnaflux them and measure them and install ARP rod bolts which Mike at Classic Inlines sells. Then they are getting the beams polished, lightened, and getting static balanced.
On my pistons the data was on the underside of the piston by the pin boss area. Mine were .010" oversize.
Data on the bearings was on the backside and were standard.
Looking at the Ford Six Performance Handbook we see that...
Rods for the 170/200 to 1972 are forged steel. (Cx-D2)
Rods from 1973 to 1978 can be cast steel, cast iron, or nodular iron. (D3-D8)
Rods from 1979 are cast steel (D9)
Rods from 1980-1981 are nodular iron. (E0-E1)
Rods from 1982 are forged steel. (E2)
Ok, so I just got back from a road trip. I tried to view the responses before hitting the road but I guess there was some problem with viewing, anyway after spending $450.00 at the machine shop, I have the head back, crank, and block. The head and block where tanked and checked for cracks. All good, the block cleaned up with a .20 over bore, the crank only needed to be polished, and the head was surfaced about .005. New cam bearings installed and all soft plugs replaced. Question on the head, if I replace the valves with new ones, do I need to do anything to them for seating. I know I will have to have the guides checked. The machine shop said he would check them, but needs a valve to do so. I do plan on a mild cam, and will change the valve springs to match. I am just not sure if I need to replace the valves themself as the stems seem to measure within stock tolerance. Is there somthing more I need to exam on the valves and seats? Thanks
Take a valve and put it in the guide.
Wiggle it around. An experienced machinist would do this and be able to "feel" if there is enough play to warrant a new valve guide. If you do this to all the guides you may find some that have i bit more play than the others.
Ok that's all I know...
anyone else care to jump in!
Wiggle it around. An experienced machinist would do this and be able to "feel" if there is enough play to warrant a new valve guide. If you do this to all the guides you may find some that have i bit more play than the others.
Ok that's all I know...
anyone else care to jump in!I would go ahead and install new bronze guides and I would also have the head cut for the positive seal locks so I can say goodbye to the umbrella seals.
Classic Inlines sells a stock type replacement stainless valve set. Even being the same size as stock the stainless valves will weigh less and if you get them back cut they will also flow much better.
http://www.classicinlines.com/proddetai ... IV-200-RSL
Classic Inlines sells a stock type replacement stainless valve set. Even being the same size as stock the stainless valves will weigh less and if you get them back cut they will also flow much better.
http://www.classicinlines.com/proddetai ... IV-200-RSL
Thanks for the advice and the link to the valves. That price is even better than NAPA. Now for the but, what do you mean by back cut? I am sure the shop would know, but its best I should know what I am asking them to do. I have heard of a three angle valve job, is that the same or something in addition to the job 
: Forgive my stupidity 
Thanks again.
: Forgive my stupidity Thanks again.Idastang":11frm9ps said:Thanks for the advice and the link to the valves. That price is even better than NAPA. Now for the but, what do you mean by back cut? I am sure the shop would know, but its best I should know what I am asking them to do. I have heard of a three angle valve job, is that the same or something in addition to the job
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/11 ... sting.html
http://www.allpar.com/fix/holler/valve-prepping.html
Thanks Anlushal11 for the links. They are a great educational tool. I can use this info when I go talk with the machinest and if he needs additional info I can copy the articals for him. ( He is old time school and small city life, not that this is a bad thing, he, like myself, are of the vintage flathead days) I am sure as I progress through this build more questions will arise. This site is truly a wealth of info for the hobbist. 
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