Headgasket problems

66Sprint6

66Sprint6

Famous Member
Ok...after blowin out my 5th headgasket while on boost, im startin to get ticked. Its never from the same place twice which means our machining is ok, but the Felpros arent holding up LOL.

My question is, what should i do for now while waiting for cometic to come out with one? i wanna run a copper, but im almost positive we didnt o-ring the block, will that cause problems???
Matt
 
I'm not an advocate of ringing in favour of standard bore binders. I figure a blown bore bridge is far cheaper than a busted gearbox. Having said that I have run 26 pounds on stock gaskets and never had one blow.

Even with monotorques I always retension the head after the first drive (cold with alloy heads and hot with iron heads).

The main problem with wet liners is the tendancy to move under duress. For these instances I dowel the block. Perhaps you need to look at this too; even though you may have integral cylinders the skirts may be flexing.

Obvious things to look at are:

the headbolts are lubricated;
head bolt holes are deep enough and dry;
fueling is around 12 or below on boost;
the gasket goes on dry, with dry surfaces;
never release tension and retension head gasket on a force fed engine;
check there isn't too much water cooling around the gasket causing a large temperature gradient;
allow cast heads to get hot before boosting hard.
 
19psi this time round, dropped it to 15psi but the damage was done. We have the fuel worked out, but the gasket just wont hold to save our lives...im usin ARP bolts and torq. settings are spot on...grrr...i dunno...Im hopin to see what happens with a better gasket but I dont wanna take the motor apart again just to oring it.
matt
 
Matt,

So just to be clear, you are using the brown-red gasket not the silver-blue gray one right? I know you said the problems were moving around. Where exactly are the gaskets blown out? And could you describe what they look like?

It's good to see that Mike is working on cometic MLS gaskets. I know a lot of the turbo guys have good luck with those sealing pressure, but not so much that they won't blow if the tuning is wrong, like oringed copper gaskets. Better to have a head gasket let go than bend a rod, crack a cylinder wall.
 
all the gaskets are lettin go on the exhaust side of the head, but this last one is around the cylinder 3-4 area...Im thinkin the same thing about the copper gasket, better to just lower the boost, run paper gaskets (brown red i believe...i remember one havin orange too) until the cometics are done, then ill step it up from there.
Matt
 
A Copper head gasket will require you to O-ring the block.
Hopefully Mike is successful in his quest with Cometic. I personally need about 4 gaskets if he gets them!

Will
 
This is totally off the wall but have any of you considered machining the block and head for the next larger stud size? Once you worked out the new torque specs, that would increase the clamping force available. It might still allow too much flex between the studs though.
 
Bort62":2t75urf9 said:
I believe Will is running 1/2" studs.
Click to expand...

This is true. But I'm not sure if it's helping.
With the larger studs you can torque to a higher number, but I'm not sure it's a good thing. I don't think the block deck will handle the loads properly and remain flat.
When I first installed the 1/2" studs I torqued the head down to 100ft/lbs. This was back when we were still running Fel-Pro and Corteco head gaskets. It didn't help at all! In fact I'm fairly confident that it worsened our gasket seal. We were able to only run around 3-5 passes (17lbs. of boost mind you!) and we'd pushout a gasket. This is how Kelly and I became very efficent at changing a head gasket!
What 1/2" studs do definately help with is keeping the head from lifting.
And if you do it right you can limit the amount of lateral movement too.
When you enlarge the bolt holes in the head, only take 12 (or even 10) of them up to a full 9/16" diameter. The rest just make large enough (~.510") so the studs just barley fit.
The only problem with this is that you will have to remove these 2 or 4 studs to get the head on or off.
Will
 
Hi,

I am using a coper gasket with no o-ring on the block or head.
The motor is over 5 years old and has done over 100 passes at the track and many hours of street abuse without ever having a head gasket issue.

If i were you, i would try a copper gasket with a very generous amount of three bond compound. Start the car and take it for a very slow drive to warm up and let the compond cure - re-tighten the head bolts and you should be right.

It worked for me!

Cheers
 
George,

What alloy of copper is the gasket?

Did you have it custom made?

What thickness are you using?

Did you have to do any special prep to the block and head, or just a clean mill/deck ?

Also, I am not familiar w/ the bonding compound you are referring too... Almost sounds like a perma-gasket in a lot of ways... lol.
 
Does10s":3s2cpu34 said:
A Copper head gasket will require you to O-ring the block.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. My XK150 had a solid copper head gasket, as did my TR4 and an old MGTD that I rebuilt. None had o-rings. OTOH, none were boosted either. I also recall seeing copper used on Ford flatheads.

Using copper requires three things. First, the copper has to be annealed. That is, it must be "softened" by heating it with a torch so that it can conform as it's torqued.

Second, you have to use a sealer. Permatex Copper Spray-a-gasket worked best for me.

Third, it required a periodic re-torque. I'd usually hit it after 500 and 1000 miles.
 
MustangSix":35z5m1el said:
Using copper requires three things. First, the copper has to be annealed. That is, it must be "softened" by heating it with a torch so that it can conform as it's torqued.

Second, you have to use a sealer. Permatex Copper Spray-a-gasket worked best for me.

Third, it required a periodic re-torque. I'd usually hit it after 500 and 1000 miles.
Click to expand...

So your saying I need to heat it up with a torch, then what? Let it cool, spray it with the copper spray (which I have and love) then put it in, or do I need to torch it hot then put it in imediately? Thanks for the info guys, im still waiting for my copper gasket to come in, but once it does I plan on playin again :twisted:
Matt
 
Well, annealing copper (or any metal) requires that you heat it above it's annealing temperature and then let it cool slowly.

Copper can be ordered annealed. The problem is that it work-hardens, so as you bend / form it, it will harden, which means you need to anneal it again.

I would expect C101-O would be the best choice for a headgasket, but I could be wrong.
 
Copper is different than ferrous metals in that it anneals by heating to a dull red color and then dropping it edge-on into water.

Terry
 
It's really important to make sure the fuel ratio is down in the 11s when on full boost, otherwise you can expect blown gaskets.
 
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