Initial startup/Break-In Fluid?- "6=8" legacy mill

[powerband]

I'm close to firing up the Clifford built perfomance six engine. It was built years ago in the Clifford shop when he was alive and mothballed in the crate. In the crate was a bottle of "Break-In fluid for blueprinted engines" . What is this stuff and how's supposed to be used?. (It tastes terrible )

Any useful recomendations on the start-up since it's been setting awhile?. I was figuring straight SAE 20 with the "break-in fluid" . I've tried pre-oiling with a gearless dizzy and it does get oil up top fast. I need to run the cam in so I'm concentrating on the sensors - oil press, temp, vacuum and tach and these also are new and untested.

Jack Clifford, legendary six cylinder racer, record holder and engine builder's shop, performance built Ford 250 six engine- Jahns 10:1 Pistons, Clifford rods, Clifford Cam, line bored & balanced bottom end, Cloyes timing set, Fisher balancer, 1.88 int. valves, Ported and relieved, Offy 3X1 w/3 Holleys, Re-curved distrib., the works, a few mysteries...

Thanks,
Powerband 8)

 

[Nathan289]

I Have no idea what the mystery fluid is.
I preffered 30 weight oil myslef.
The problem with todays oil is its supposedly has less Zinc in it than it used to. Supposedly causes lifter problems.
I havent found a solution yet.

Nathan

 

[Junk-Falcon]

i would say

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Powerband:

Wow!!!! How exciting!!!!

I'd use the break-in fluid. If Jack Clifford said do it, DO IT!!!!

I like the 20# oil for break-in too. It gets to the far reaches a little faster and easier.

I'd do start up and cam break-in on one carb. Do an initial start-up, with the valve cover off, to look for leaks of any kind. If there are no leaks and there is oil to all of the rockers, and the carb is close to right, and the guages are functioning, proceed with the initial cam break-in.

Cam break-in on a V8 requires running the engine at about 2,000 rpm at idle for 20 minutes or so. Our engines are a little different then most V8s with the oil draining straight down the pushrods, over the lifters and onto the cam- in addition to the oil being pumped through the cam bearings. So cam break in is a little less critical. The key is make sure the oil is getting to all the right places. This initial run-in should be long enough to get everything up to operating temperature. Letting it cool down and heat cycle again will help break-in the valve springs too.

Some people go so far as to pre-heat the oil and coolant, to get it up to operating temp faster, so it lubricates better, but that may be overkill.

If all looks good at this point, button up the valve cover and drive it very conservatively for the 1st 500 miles. Driving with a light load will help seat the rings faster than just idling. After the 1st 500 miles change the oil and filter. I like to disect the filter. So far no surprizes, but you never know.

If the temp stays about 80 F you might want to step up to 30# oil for the next 1,000 miles- just to be safe. IF all still is going good, it's time to start tuning the carbs and stretching it out.

Don't be surprised is the rings aren't seated yet. Do you know, for sure what kind of rings are in it? If they are moly coated they may take some hard running to seat them. Moly coated rings are a little more critical to get to seat, but they last longer than standard rings.

Keep the reports coming. I love this adventure.

Adios, David

 

[powerband]

Thanks David for the concurring advice, it really helps my confidence. I made "block off plates" for the outer carbs out of thin aluminum and plan on using a known quantity good running carb from another engine. As i get close the incidentals are multiplying.

Latest sffort is that the 250 Thermostat/top hose outlet is larger than the Maverick 170 setup radiator top port I'm using. I can use a short piece of the smaller hose with the upper 250 hose over it but I'm concerned with the reduction in flow. ALso the Clifford 250 outlet is nice polished alum and has a tapped port for sensors but the port is tapped for 1/4" and the PErma-cool fan sensor as well as heat guage is 3/8 (NPT) so I have to scare up a 3/8NPT tap to work it out.

THe starter I bought after finding the headers rub the stock one is a PMGR from a '92 302 but was delayed in shipment so I'm sitting on my thumbs on that one. The clearance from the mounting surface to the ring gear comes out closer to 5/8" than 3/4" and I'm unsure the drive gear will clear it - any thoughts on this again are appreciated...

The details of sensors, ignition , electrical and xhaust are adding up to a series of close tolerance delays but it's all worth it.

Muchas Gracias

Powerband

 

[Lazy JW]

Use HDEO (Heavy Duty Engine Oil) for initial startup and break-in. If that engine has been sitting assembled for umpteen years without starting I would definitely pull the lifters and smear a big glop of cam break-in goop on the lifters, plus try to get some down onto the cam as well. I used Clevite brand available at NAPA.

The HDEO still has the desireable high zinc content, it is also known as diesel engine oil. It will NOT hurt your gas engine to run this stuff, even full time. I used Chevron Delo 400 15w-40 HDEO for the startup and break-in of my 300 this spring. If you are really paranoid about such "heavy" oil in your climate, put a 250 watt heat lamp under the oil pan for a couple of hours before startup. I also put in an extra quart just to make sure that I had plenty of oil getting splashed on my new cam.

Definitely do the 20-30 minutes of 2000 rpm breakin, watching for signs of trouble such as oil leaks, oil pressure, overheating, etc. It's nice to have a helper or two at this time.

Then take it out and do some full throttle runs up the steepest hill you can find. Fill the car with passengers to provide a good load, besides, why not share the fun?

Sell the Clifford goop on Ebay.
Joe

 

[MustangSix]

Prime the oiling system by spinning a gutted distributor. When you see oil in the rocker shaft and the lifters stop hissing, all the air should be gone. That will help ensure that lube is at the lifters and cam on startup.

 

[jamyers]

I'd be VERY leery of an old lube, especially if you don't know what's in it. Many old-style lubes can separate over time (like Lubriplate 105) and you don't know what'll happen.

Pre-lubing the engine is a great idea, even better (more obsessive) if you can spin the crank a couple of times while pressurising.

BG makes a terrific oil additive with high-pressure lube called MOA, and they've also got a good engine-assembly lube but I forget it's name (probably something catchy like "engine assembly lube"...)

 

[CobraSix]

If all looks good at this point, button up the valve cover and drive it very conservatively for the 1st 500 miles. Driving with a light load will help seat the rings faster than just idling.

Funny, this point is always a bone of contention and one born of legend (may be right or wrong). The good ole CarTalk boys (Click and Clack) bring this one up a lot. One had a car he babied through the start up period and the engine blew up at 60k miles. His next car, he said hell with it, and just beat it from day one. That car has 200k miles on it now and still no problems. There is another school of thought there that getting the rings up hotter and under more pressure will actually help them seat better when you run it a little harder. Not talking about red lining it every stop light, but running it to 3-4k RPM at least a few times and not completely babying then engine.

Personally, I think break-ins are a bunch of hogwash other then changing the oil at 500 miles. It's a crap shoot, either your engine is well put together or it isn't and you'll find an equal number of people that did both types of breakins, swear by them, and have engines that last 200k miles.

Take for example my 2 cars (not the stang). My Volvo and my Exploder. My volvo I let warm up on cold mornings and I let cool down after I get off the highway before stopping the car (turbo engine). My exploder, it can be 0*F outside, and I just hope in, fire it up and drive away. Volvo has 150k miles and my exploder 200k miles. Both run great. So which way is right? The exploder is 7 years older then the volvo. The only reason I drive the exploder that way is I've been trying to get it to die the last 50k miles. minimal oil changes, minimal maintenance (or as we call in the military, condition based maintenance aka failure based). I use my truck for short around town trips less then 10 miles. Volvo is only used to drive into Boston and longer highway trips. But I digress.

Personally, I'd say use the mystery fluid. Why? because Jack said so. You have a piece of 6 performance history there. I'd be afraid to even use the engine afraid I would mess it up. More then likely, it is like Marvel Mystery oil. I used that for winterizing and restarting my engines. It puts a nice film over the engine that stays through most of the winter. I then squirt some in the cylinders right before restarting and then manually roll over the engine.

My advice on the Offy set up. Remove the outer carbs and make some block plates for the intake holes. Flat stock aluminum works great. Cut it out, punch the stud template, and use a few gaskets. This will make your break in start up much easier as you won't be dealing with multiple carb tuning while you are trying to get the car started.

Slade

 

[wallaka]

My advice on the Offy set up. Remove the outer carbs and make some block plates for the intake holes. Flat stock aluminum works great. Cut it out, punch the stud template, and use a few gaskets. This will make your break in start up much easier as you won't be dealing with multiple carb tuning while you are trying to get the car started.
Slade

He did that already. S'ok, I skim sometimes too.

 

[Anonymous]

did some more research for ya on the oldmans six. i found some original paper work and instructoins etc. from what i have read the break in fluid is baicly cam the heavy duty cam/bearing lube the sell at napa. they recomend you put it in and run it for about 5 mins idle @ 850 then shut off fire again run for another 5 mins @ 1100, shut off till it cools, then fire it again take it for a drive around 15 miles or so then park it drain it and put in 10w30, in BOLD IT SAYS DO NOT USE SYNTHETIC OILS AS IN OLDER MOTORS THEY DO MORE DANMAGE THEN GOOD. ill see if i can scan this stuff and send em to you in an email, i think i have acess to one at work

wes

 

[wallaka]

Of course synthetic is bad for break-in. It's so slick that the rings don't bed in properly. After that, though, it is better in every way than dino oil. ...Except price. There's no doubt in my mind that thinner oils would be worse for old engines because of the looser tolerances. I don't think that synthetic, if the same viscosity, would cause any damage to an older engine that has good seals.

 

[simon]

There is another school of thought there that getting the rings up hotter and under more pressure will actually help them seat better when you run it a little harder. Not talking about red lining it every stop light, but running it to 3-4k RPM at least a few times and not completely babying then engine.

Personally, I think break-ins are a bunch of hogwash other then changing the oil at 500 miles.

Yup, seen this happening before- guys rebuilding their motors, then petting them for 5k miles or even more, no kickdown, never take them beyond 2000 rpm, then they're completely surprised when they find out their rings have never seated in that 5k miles period, but glazed the cylinder walls instead.

 

[powerband]

did some more research for ya on the oldmans six. i found some original paper work and instructoins etc. from what i have read the break in fluid is baicly cam the heavy duty cam/bearing lube the sell at napa. they recomend you put it in and run it for about 5 mins idle @ 850 then shut off fire again run for another 5 mins @ 1100, shut off till it cools, then fire it again take it for a drive around 15 miles or so then park it drain it and put in 10w30, in BOLD IT SAYS DO NOT USE SYNTHETIC OILS AS IN OLDER MOTORS THEY DO MORE DANMAGE THEN GOOD. ill see if i can scan this stuff and send em to you in an email, i think i have acess to one at work

wes

Thanks Wes, I'd appreciate the info if you can find the time. I've been assembling a scrapbook of sorts with the info from my motor and on Jack Clifford and the six cylinder mods he created. I was given a great article from MotorTrend Oct' 1969 that has Jack Clifford and a Rambler six he built. It's a real eye opener to the occasional - actual engine builder-types I run into at cruises who are as bored of SBC's and 5.0's as I am.

Powerband

 

[ludwig]

Scan and post? Hmmmm?

Sounds real interesting.

 

[Mustang Boy]

heck i never babied my car after i rebuilt my motorthe only thing i can seethat i did that i prolly shouldnt have was let it sit for 4 months before actually taking the car home but we did have the motor running and everything else was ok when we let it sit and on its first real drive we took it out of the garage and realised we forgot somthing and we did a nice burnout back into the garage and that is pretty much how my car has been treated ever since and excecpt for it being down for the 1brl to 2brl swap it has run fine with only a few electical problems from sitting for so long

 

[wsa111]

Powerband, if that additive is over 30 years old, discard it.

Use 10w-30 mineral oil & add a pint of EOS,engine oil supplement sold at every GM dealership. This will supply the anti-scuff additives necessary for proper break in of the camshaft & lifters.

Prime the engine as Jack stated so oil pressure is instant.

Run the engine @ 2500-3000 rpms for 10-15 minuites or take it out on the highway and run the engine for proper camshaft breakin, do not idle engine during this critical breakin period.

Change the oil @ 500 miles & use Shell rotella oil which has the zinc anti scuff additive or use the GM EOS with mineral oil till the rings get seated.

After the rings seat then you can switch to synthetic but still use a zinc additive for camshaft wear.

If all your clearances are right in the engine take it out and drive it like you stole it, this will seat the rings faster & if your machine shop did everything right you will not have a problem.

If they didn't you will find out real fast.

I ran my 200 at the track with about 400 miles on the engine, but the rings had already seated previously & had no problems. This included 6000 rpm shift points.

Drive it like grandma drove it & it will perform like grandma still owned it.

Good luck on your engine. A lot of technology has evolved since that engine was build on your 30 year old powerplant, such as having no hardened exhaust valve seats for the unleaded fuel of today & ring & cylinder wall finish. William

 

[Lazy JW]

Of course synthetic is bad for break-in. It's so slick that the rings don't bed in properly...

Some pretty high dollar brand new cars are available with synthetic oil from the factory. Just another myth, there is really no harm in running synthetic for break-in.

There is also no real good reason to use it for break-in either, because most of us will drain it relatively soon anyway, so you would just be dumping expensive oil.

Pretty hard to beat good ol' Delo 400 for startup of a fresh engine.
Joe

 

[wallaka]

Of course synthetic is bad for break-in. It's so slick that the rings don't bed in properly...

Some pretty high dollar brand new cars are available with synthetic oil from the factory.

True, I figured that they had been broken in at the factory before shipping. I know they do this with Corvettes.

I use Delo for pretty much everything except my new car. Lawnmowers, ATVs, tractors, Fords, etc.

 

[wsa111]

Joe, I would love to know how mercedes, corvettes, vipers & other vehicles come with synthetic. & seat the rings???
Either they come with mineral oil from the factory then after the 1st change to synthetic, or are these engines motored at the factory begore installation in the vehicle & or is cylinder wall & ring technology so good that they will breakin using the synthetic.
Remember all these new engines have roller lifters so no camshaft breakin is necessary.
I would advise in this older engine that you break in the engine the old way.
After the first 5000 miles then switch to synthetic with an anti scuff additive, or use shell rotella from the beginning or use mineral oil with EOS-engine oil supplement.