Mustang 1980 6L 200ci Cylinder head question

1981Ghia

1981Ghia

New member
Hello fellow inliners,

I have a mustang 1980 Ghia and i was wondering: my car has now 91 hp (probably lower). A 1965 mustang has 120hp. Is it possible to just switch the cylinderheads? Would this be just bolt on or should i make a lot of modifications? Are the cylinderpistons, screws, gaskets,... the same? I want to buy a cylinderhead from this company (http://www.rebuilt-auto-engines.com/cgi ... 1187268.e3)

Is this a good idea? Does anybody have some experience with this company?

Greetings Bert Verstreken
 
You're better off keeping the head you have. The 80 head would have a larger volume intake log (1345cc) than a 65 (1100cc). Your 80 head would also have larger intake valves and hardened valve seats.
Look here:

http://www.classicinlines.com/SmallSixS ... #SSgeneral

You would get more performance with your head with the same modifications, plus it is easier to install a direct mount 2Bbl with the larger intake log.

Besides, your engine is rated in "net" horsepower, whereas the 65 was rated in "gross" horsepower. The rule of thumb is 1HP net = 1.4HP gross. 120HP gross is equal to 86HP net.
91HP is greater than 86HP.

Hope this helps.
 
Just what I was going to say.

Smog equipement and lower compression ratio might be the reason for lower hp in your 1980. Actually, the 1980 head is more desireable due to larger valves and intake, which is a great canidate for cylinder head modification.
 
Ow :shock: really? I thought it really was 30hp difference :p. So what you are suggesting is i should put a 2BBL on this engine to get more hp? I only want 100+ hp thats enough. I'm not planning to change the cylinderhead to a custom yet but i might add the dual exhaust to get the V8 sound and a better exhaust flow. But for now that is more than enough.
 
So what you are suggesting is i should put a 2BBL on this engine to get more hp? I only want 100+ hp thats enough. i might add the dual exhaust to get the V8 sound and a better exhaust flow. But for now that is more than enough.
Click to expand...

:nod: :thumbup: Thats a good plan! If you take the head off to do the direct mount also do some mild street porting and blending of the valve bowls a good 3 angle valve job back cut etc. too :nod:
 
bubba22349":1g3d6akq said:
So what you are suggesting is i should put a 2BBL on this engine to get more hp? I only want 100+ hp thats enough. i might add the dual exhaust to get the V8 sound and a better exhaust flow. But for now that is more than enough.
Click to expand...

:nod: :thumbup: Thats a good plan!
Click to expand...
The exhaust or the 2BBL carb?
 
Both if you can but the carb & porting would be the best first step
 
We don't have smog restrictions. This is an oldtimer and there are NO restrictions on oldtimers :). Except the engine size (insurance).
 
1981Ghia":wakxipuy said:
IF i were to install the carb, should i port the cylinder head also? Or wouldn't the carb work as it should be?
head porting you mean as in:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cylinder_head_porting
I'm really new to this but i'm a fast learner :) and i really want to know all about this.
Click to expand...

Porting the cyliner head really helps these engines, but once you start pulling the engine apart, 3-angle vavle job, porting... while I'm there, new camshaft, lifters, double roller timing chain, header... it can start to add up. I spent $1200 modifying my cylinder head for a direct mount 2 barrel, porting, larger valves to give you an idea how much this can cost and that didn't include the carb, header, camshaft and electronic ignition. At least you already have electronic ignition!

Most of all - have fun,
 
Thanks for all the information! Really appreciating the tips! But i do understand i have to learn a lot about engines :).
 
8) my advice for spending $800 to get more performance;

1: exhaust

2: electronic ignition

3: two barrel conversion

4: cam swap

if you shop around, you can get all this done for about $800 depending on how much work you can do yourself. labor is what will kill you.
 
go the 2bbl conversion, that will give the most return in hp, if possible squeeze in the cam for more hp and let the port and polish be last of the three, otherwise keep it stock, the main asmatic areas right now, are the intake and cam,the exhaust would be a "fun" feature

Good Luck and welcome
Richard
 
Here the page showing the differant ways to adapt them. You gain the most by the direct mount though you would need to pull head. If your engine is still in good condistion than a bolt on adapter top of the page would be the fastest way to do the swap. Good luck

http://classicinlines.com/logmods.asp#2VC
 
Howdy Ghia and all:

Sorry to be so late in jumping in on this thread, but, first off, Welcome the the FORUM!!!! Yes, it is that good.

About your Mustang, there are several issues that account for the differences in the '66 hp rating and yours. 1st as already explained is the change in HP ratings from gross to net. 2nd is a drop in Compression ratio from 9.2:1 in '66 to 8:1 on your '81. In addition, your '81 will likely have a rather restrictive exhaust/cat converter along with all the rest of the EPA crutche fixes implemented in the 1981. THe cam timing is significantly advanced, to improve lower rpm torque, when compared to a '66 cam. Finally, your car is likely suffering from a too tall rear end gear ratio- either a 2.79:1 or a 3:1. Those were designed for max mpg.

You didn't say what trans you have, but with an auto the torque converter will make up for some of the sluggishness off the line.

The good news is that you already have a great ignition system in the DuraSpark II. increase your initial advance setting to 5 degrees more then stock spec.

I've got to run now, but I''ll try to get back later to finish how I'd allocate your budget. First we have to talk about your goals.

Adios, David
 
Howdy Bert:

I'm back. Where are you located? Tell us more about your car. Is it a daily driver? or a fair weather weekend Joyride? What have you done with it so far?

In the mean time, think about this. It doesn't work best to think of performance increase as simply replacing parts. Yes, parts are included, but to be most effective they must work together. All of your stock parts were assembled by Ford engineers to offer reasonable performance, dependability, good economy and all in a low emmissions package. Any changes should be added with that in mind, or plan to change the whole picture. Now, don't get me wrong. You could buy a Weber and an adapter to bolt on for a mild increase in performance, but know that you'd have to adapt throttle linkage, worry about hood clearance, fuel lines and air cleaners. The swap would likely require carb tuning to get the most out of it with your existing parts. It's a journey. Are you ready for a journey.

Let me recommend that you take some time to read here deeply, and ask lots of questions. At the same time assess what you have and get to know it. The stock '81 carb is a Holley #1946. It doesn't offer much in the way of tuneability, but can benefit from a good cleaning. You could also learn to tune it to achieve the highest vacuum readings. That and the increase in initial advance I mentioned above will give you a noticeable improvement in feel. The ignition advance and the vacuum tune will require the use of a timing light and a vacuum guage. Both relatively cheap, but useful. If you car has the quick burn catalitic system adding dual exhaust will not get you "a V8 sound". So is that the place you want to start? Replacing the stock muffler with a turbo type may be helpful and not too expensive.

After the tune and lots of reading, I'd recommend the head rebuild. Done right it would restore lost compression ratio and increase flow. Start checking the machine shops in your area for one that is interested in your project, and willing to work with you. You'll be specifying a three angle performance valve job, back cutting the intake valves and specifying a mill cut of .075"- .025" to compensate for the difference in the thickness of the modern head gaskets that will replace the stock OEM steel shim gasket that is in there now, and .50" to get the chambers down to 52 CCs- the same as a '66 head.

You will be amazed at the difference this will make. But, it is also the time to carefully consider all of your carb options to replace the #1946 Holley. It is rated at aproximately 185 cfm. A bigger one barrel, machine for a direct mount two barrel, or multi carbs are options, each with advantages and burdens to consider.

The cam, lifters and timing set would need to be considered as part of a block rebuild- More than $800. But That's another story.

PS- check the build code for what rear gear ratio you currently have. Oh ya, and what trans?

Let's hear from you.

Adios, David
 
Wow David thanks for the huge post! I realy loved reading it! :) I have the original C4 transmission.
Since 1998 i was crazy about Mustangs, but i did not have the money to buy a 1964-1969. (still don't). But last month i saw a Ford Capri for sale. When i was looking for the price etc i saw 2 ford Mustang's this was a 1981 cobralook 2.3 turbo and a 2.3 hatchback of 1981 also, in the man's backyard so i also asked the price for those 2 mustangs. He told me 1500€ approx 2000$ for the 3 of them. But i only saw 2. And than he told me he had one kept aside. So i asked to take a look, and there she was, a 1980 Mustang Ghia with 6L 3.3. He told me he would like to receive 650$/car. But i only bought the one i liked the most and the one that also was in best shape. So i bought the car but NOTHING worked. The car hasn't been driving since 1992. Now after 1,5 month of hard work and lots of search on google i finally got the car running again! So i changed the oil+filter, refilled the transmission fluid, i repaired and honed all of the brakes (they were frozen by the rust). When i opened up the trunk i found a little treasure: i found 2 NEW rear shocks so i replaced them immediatly! I reshaped the nose. It was bend because no mechanics worked and the idiots couldn't find a better way to move it to just take another car and place it against the front bumper and push em until he was in the right spot :bang:. The hood wouldn't even close anymore!!!. So i reshaped it and now everything seems back to the original. Than another problem was the sunroof: is was totaly rusted and could not be repaired so i replaced it with a sunroof from a donor car. I also took out the carpet because it was VERY wet and rotten! And also the headlinder was coming loose + the backing board was wet and rotten. Now i'm polishing my rims (wolfrace anno 1970).
So that will be it... i hope i did not forget anything :p. I'm glad i can tell some ppl this story b'cause here they don't seem to care about it a lot :( .
And today i went to the uhm how do you call it: the place to check if your car is street legal... + to the insurance! So i will be driving my Mustang soon! This will not be my daily car!! Only for the (sunny) weekends and meetings.

Thanks a lot for listening!!
 
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