All Big Six Plans for a 300 rebuild: "Miss Melody"

Relates to all big sixes

pmuller9

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The Ferrea 5000 series is an excellent valve for street use.

There are only two piston brands to choose from for 300 six hypereutectic pistons with a 25 to 26cc dish. Silv-o-lite and Speed Pro.
I consider the Silv-o-lite the better of the two.

There are several using cam profiles in the 220 degree .050" duration range. The engines pull from 1000 rpm using the short runner Offy or Clifford intakes.
A 214 degree .050" cam with long intake runners should have no problem pulling from off idle.
You would be looking at the Schneider 135H (13919) .472"/.472" 214/214 270/270 110deg cam ground on a 112 LSA instead of 110.
 

Frank

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The Ferrea 5000 series is an excellent valve for street use.

There are only two piston brands to choose from for 300 six hypereutectic pistons with a 25 to 26cc dish. Silv-o-lite and Speed Pro.
I consider the Silv-o-lite the better of the two.

There are several using cam profiles in the 220 degree .050" duration range. The engines pull from 1000 rpm using the short runner Offy or Clifford intakes.
A 214 degree .050" cam with long intake runners should have no problem pulling from off idle.
You would be looking at the Schneider 135H (13919) .472"/.472" 214/214 270/270 110deg cam ground on a 112 LSA instead of 110.
Thank you pmuller9. Crower 19213 caught my eye, really close to my target parameters. Loose 2 1/2* overlap. but the slightly longer E duration may not hurt w/ stock E manifolds. 210/213 266/274 112* LSA .493"I .498"E . 266* intake is right on my DCR, except it is ground 4* advanced. Brings DCR to 7.48. Power band should be right on target. Use offset key and put it straight up? Thoughts?
( Crower 19211, it's been flawless since install, 78,000 miles and counting.)

Bought Promaxx bare stock head today. Ready to order valves. I'm unsure of retainers and keepers. Standard 11/32" 10* grove. I called Ferrea and felt a bit stupid, since this is a hybrid, SBC valves, Ford head, couldn't give the guy specific enough info. Should I go ahead and order the valves, and pin down the rest once mock-up gives us specific #'s?
Summit has the pistons in stock, only a couple sets left. (Silvolite 1186H). I want to order asap. What rings should I get for these?
Thanks to all for your guidance. would not be taking this on without this forum.
 
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Frank

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And no, we have not closed on the house yet. Taking an "engine build advance" from a savings account. (Thank God for a good wife.) :)
 

pmuller9

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Crower 19213 caught my eye, really close to my target parameters. Loose 2 1/2* overlap. but the slightly longer E duration may not hurt w/ stock E manifolds. 210/213 266/274 112* LSA .493"I .498"E . 266* intake is right on my DCR, except it is ground 4* advanced. Brings DCR to 7.48. Power band should be right on target. Use offset key and put it straight up? Thoughts?
( Crower 19211, it's been flawless since install, 78,000 miles and counting.)

Bought Promaxx bare stock head today. Ready to order valves. I'm unsure of retainers and keepers. Standard 11/32" 10* grove. I called Ferrea and felt a bit stupid, since this is a hybrid, SBC valves, Ford head, couldn't give the guy specific enough info. Should I go ahead and order the valves, and pin down the rest once mock-up gives us specific #'s?
Summit has the pistons in stock, only a couple sets left. (Silvolite 1186H). I want to order asap. What rings should I get for these?
Thanks to all for your guidance. would not be taking this on without this forum.
Crower makes a quality cam. If you install it straight up the DCR will be 7.3
Schneider may still be out of cam blanks.

The Ferrea 5001 is the 1.94", 4.910" intake.
The 5072 is the 1.90", 4.910" intake.
The 5005 is the 1.60" 4.910" exhaust.
CNC-motorsports sells them as a single item instead of a set of 8

Go with the Hastings Plasma-molly ring set.

Does the bare head come with valve seat inserts?
 
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Frank

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Crower makes a quality cam. If you install it straight up the DCR will be 7.3
Schneider may still be out of cam blanks.

The Ferrea 5001 is the 1.94", 4.910" intake.
The 5072 is the 1.90", 4.910" intake.
The 5005 is the 1.60" 4.910" exhaust.
CNC-motorsports sells them as a single item instead of a set of 8

Go with the Hastings Plasma-molly ring set.

Does the bare head come with valve seat inserts?
The Ferrea #5072 and 5005 are in the cart. Buy individually, directly from Ferrea's website. Will order now, and choose locks, springs, retainers later.
Hastings Rings. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hsn-2m592030 Please verify my selection is correct, thanks.
Was told the stock Promaxx head is exactly the same as performance head, less the CNC work.
Sorry for asking the same ? again: what is the PN for the offset cam key?
thanks
 
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Frank

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Is there an advantage to steel/aluminum timing gear, other than mass reduction? Why is it even offered? Quieter than steel/steel? What about longevity? Iron-to-aluminum was a no-go on big diesels. ??
 

bubba22349

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The steel / steel gears that were offered were strongest and used in hevey duty application's, but they can be a bit noisy so yes I would say that's why the aluminum / steel gear combos are also offered. I have used them without any trouble, they are still going to be a little louder than the fiber type cam / steel gear combo that was used in many of the later 300's.
 

Frank

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The steel / steel gears that were offered were strongest and used in hevey duty application's, but they can be a bit noisy so yes I would say that's why the aluminum / steel gear combos are also offered. I have used them without any trouble, they are still going to be a little louder than the fiber type cam / steel crank gear combo that was used in many of the later 300's.
I got ya bubba. Thanks. There are all steel in my '79 I feel sure, the gear whine is as loud as the transmission. I don't mind it. Everyone dislikes the fiber, but I reused it when I did the top-end rebuild 8 years ago and installed the Crower that's in the '90 now. It looked like new. It's quiet. Drive gear noise makes me feel right at home, after so many years listening to diesels. They all have several gears, and the old 2 cycle V configured Detroit's had 8 or 10, can't remember. those big engine's front-end gears drive water pump, oil pump(s), air compressor, blower (2 cycle) cam(s), governor, and a couple of pulley drives. different ratios too, (The blower on my marine 8V-71 was 1.89:1) Everybody knows the 2 stroke Detroit sound, you can't mistake it. All those gears is part of it.
My mechanic instinct says "all steel", but the reduced rotating mass with the aluminum is appealing. . .Ok just checked Summit again. They had 3 steel/aluminum this morning . now says one left. I'm going for it.
 

hodaka100

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I replaced the fiber gears in my 1988 after they stripped at 200,000 miles getting off the highway after a six hour drive with only a 5 mile tow left. I love old ford trucks... I always knew what needed to be fixed a year before it broke down on the side of the road (just didn't always get around to it before it happened). I knew the fiber gears were going to break, I just thought I might get to rebuilding the engine before they did. I used cloyes steel gears I bought at the local parts store. I think I had them look up a 1975 F250. Number on the cam gear is 2764. I noticed the "noise" when I started it but a couple years later I could barely hear it, and only if I tried. I don't know if I got used to it or if they "broke in" but I would not be concerned about the noise at all with steel gears (at least the ones I bought). Also the large holes in the cam gear do not align very well with the cam retaining bolts but I was able to remove the cam when I tore down the engine and feel comfortable torquing the plate back in with some locktight. (I installed the gears without removing the cam)
 

Frank

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Ok, I've been focused on this since last weekend, and now it's time for Thanksgiving to God for our innumerable blessings, family and good food.
Now purchased and in transit:
Scorpion 1.73 pedestal rockers (BO till February)
Promaxx bare, stock head
Ferrea 1.90 I, 1.60E stainless undercut valves
ARP rod bolts (will reuse head and mains)
Hastings Moly ring set
Silv-o-lite Hypo pistons, 26cc factory-shaped D dish, .030 over
Melling steel/aluminum gear set
Felpro 1024 head gasket. (I've got the other gaskets already.)
I did not order the Crower 11213 cam yet. A wise man once said, "If there's doubt- don't. Be led by peace"
Happy Thanksgiving everybody.
 

bubba22349

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Very good plan coming togeather Frank! I wonder if ProMax might do a CNC ported head and valve bowls with a near stock combustion chamber for use the stock EFI parts and ECM? Like they only modded the chambers just enough to get the larger 1.90 intake and 1.60 exhaust valves fitted but still kept all the fast burn chamber tech. Happy Thanksgiving!
 

HitmanX

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Are you going to balance the rods once you resize the big ends? Guessing they are not floating pins so no bushings. I am curious how far out all the weights are on the bottom end.

I am willing to buy those nonrotator stock locks from the EFI head if you want to sell it. Or hell, if that head is not cracked I would take it complete. Less downtime for me!
 

Frank

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I wonder if ProMax might do a CNC ported head and valve bowls with a near stock combustion chamber for use the stock EFI parts and ECM? Like they only modded the chambers just enough to get the larger 1.90 intake and 1.60 exhaust valves fitted but still kept all the fast burn chamber tech. Happy Thanksgiving!
That's a good question bubba- and I did not ask Promaxx. FTF believes the CNC Promaxx has lost the fast burn. Too much unshrouding. While I'm not cutting any corners to save money, I'm still just a blue collar working guy, and not rich enough to be careless. I figured, they added a Grand to the stock head to machine the HP version, a custom machining would be costly too. But above that, I want things the way I want them, and whenever possible I prefer to do it myself. I've seen a couple of posts of the HP head, and truthfully, I wasn't real impressed with the work- it is not what I am aiming for in this build. I have never ported a head, this will be my first. But I do know how fluids flow, how to use tools, and what my flow pattern goals are. FTF gave me the valve-to-chamber spacing for best swirl, and I'm keeping it in that parameter to maintain the efficiency gained with fast-burn.
 

Frank

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Are you going to balance the rods once you resize the big ends? Guessing they are not floating pins so no bushings. I am curious how far out all the weights are on the bottom end.

I am willing to buy those nonrotator stock locks from the EFI head if you want to sell it. Or hell, if that head is not cracked I would take it complete. Less downtime for me!
Hey HitmanX. Yes I plan to have the rotating assembly balanced. If I remember, I'll ask Gary how much the bigger bolts put it out. Long life is relative to being balanced- this Law applies to engines too.
My head that's in service is not really a good replacement. It has done it's time. Was shaved at least a quarter of an inch when I got it used (no this is not an exaggeration), and it has a cracked valve stem. I suddenly started having heavy oil smoke, a few months after install. Freaked me out at the time. Found a split in #6 E valve guide. Don't know if I bumped it on something during install, or was already damaged when I got it. Used JB Weld. The engine has used about a pint of oil/ 1500 miles since, and slowly fouls #6 plug, have to swap it out every few months. You are welcome to any parts at no charge. But these parts have 200,000+ miles and in my humble opinion should be retired, with the epitaph "well done, rest in peace."
 

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

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My head that's in service is not really a good replacement. It has done it's time. Was shaved at least a quarter of an inch when I got it used (no this is not an exaggeration)...
Wow, a stock deck thickness is only about 3/8".
 

Frank

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The head arrived today, as well as the valves. This head is a really nice piece. ports are smoothest I've seen on a gas head. A few casting ridges, very minor. Shaping the guide boss, light sand roll work and opening up slightly for the larger valve, should be good to go. Slid an intake in to check shrouding clearance, and came up with 1.65mm space, valve to head. I have a cheap, short reach caliper so this reading was with the valve well off the seat, near the deck surface. But the spacing is uniform all the way around the shrouded area, and looks uniform down to the seat area. Those smog holes are a shame. This is my first look at a head that has them. The taper in the port faces toward the chamber then hits a 90* wall where the tube exits. Then a lip protrudes into the port on the manifold side. This influences the high pressure exhaust flow more than one would think, IMO. I will be smoothing all that out as much as possible. It's not possible to eliminate the taper area, but smoothing it downstream will help a lot. Has any one drilled and tapped the inner part of the smog hole, from where it is machined for the tapered pipe? I would prefer to install a bolt all the way into the port, then smooth it off to match flush, rather than having a 1/2" hole at the static end of a "small bay".
 
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Frank

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The head was well packaged, unlike Pontus's debacle earlier this year.
 

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Frank

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You got the bare head, right? Were the guides finished, and if so, what do they measure?
yes, the bare head. I measure .343 guides. Valves measure .341 . I confess being new to judging a head as closely as what we are doing. And I have a cheap caliper. 11/32"= .34375", so my #'s are suspect. I plan to let m shop judge it when he cuts for the bigger valves. Valves fit snug, but feel can't determine a few thou, without experience.
 
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