SixFoFalcon
Well-known member
Do they exist for the small Ford six? If not, any suggestions on how to fabricate one?
Reverse flow water pump?
- Thread starter SixFoFalcon
- Start date
Do you want to turn the pump backwards or do you want to reverse the coolant flow?
SixFoFalcon
Well-known member
I want the radiator-cooled coolant to pass through the head before it reaches the block. Would that involve re-routing the coolant passages (essentially impossible), or would a simple water pump mod do the trick? I can't seem to find much info on the coolant flow path in the small six.
I found this article on LT1 reverse cooling.
http://www.theherd.com/articles/lt1_cool.html I think it would be a lot of work to implement on a small six and the gains might not be very significant.
http://www.theherd.com/articles/lt1_cool.html I think it would be a lot of work to implement on a small six and the gains might not be very significant.
SixFoFalcon
Well-known member
My SHO engine utilizes the same technology. 8)
I'm just wondering if the current flow path is block first, then heads, or if it's more of a meandering back and forth about the length of the engine. If it's the former, simply reversing the pump flow direction would cool the heads first, then the block. 8)
I'm just wondering if the current flow path is block first, then heads, or if it's more of a meandering back and forth about the length of the engine. If it's the former, simply reversing the pump flow direction would cool the heads first, then the block. 8)
A
Anonymous
Guest
actually i am pretty sure we covered this topic, possibly in the hardcore tech section...i think it was concluded that this wouldnt work to change the existing ones and that there isnt one made for it...the pump can only work in one direction, although i dont know the whys and all that, but if someone can find the thread that would be great.
SixFoFalcon
Well-known member
If this http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13847 is what you're referring to, I don't think the topic has been explored nearly enough.
I understand the whys. A centrifugal pump works on the principal that the impeller basically "throws" the fluid outward, away from the axis of rotation. If the opening near the axis connects to the water pump neck, then that will be the input for the pump, regardless of the direction of rotation. The coolant will always be forced outward, so the neck will always see lower pressure, and thus feed the pump. I was just curious if there were any cenriPETAL pumps ("center-seeking") that used pitched vanes to direct flow towards the water pump neck.
I'm thinking about going to all electric accessories, anyway. In my case, that would mean electric water pump, electric fan, and electric fuel pump. The only belt-driven accessory would be the alternator.
I'll probably just gut my old WP and use the gutted neck/housing as input into the electric WP. That way, coolant is being extracted from cylinder #1 and pumped into the radiator, then back to the head at combustion chamber #1. If I want to switch back to the stock flow pattern, I just flip the electric WP around.
With the Xflow head on a US block, 3/4 of the coolant passages on cylinders #2-5 are blocked anyway, so there wouldn't be much exchange of coolant going on between the block and head in that area, right? For the most part, it would seem that the coolant would flow the length of the head, and then the length of the block, or vice versa. Is this correct?
(For those who don't know, I'm planning on mating a US250 block to a Crossflow head)
I understand the whys. A centrifugal pump works on the principal that the impeller basically "throws" the fluid outward, away from the axis of rotation. If the opening near the axis connects to the water pump neck, then that will be the input for the pump, regardless of the direction of rotation. The coolant will always be forced outward, so the neck will always see lower pressure, and thus feed the pump. I was just curious if there were any cenriPETAL pumps ("center-seeking") that used pitched vanes to direct flow towards the water pump neck.
I'm thinking about going to all electric accessories, anyway. In my case, that would mean electric water pump, electric fan, and electric fuel pump. The only belt-driven accessory would be the alternator.
I'll probably just gut my old WP and use the gutted neck/housing as input into the electric WP. That way, coolant is being extracted from cylinder #1 and pumped into the radiator, then back to the head at combustion chamber #1. If I want to switch back to the stock flow pattern, I just flip the electric WP around.
With the Xflow head on a US block, 3/4 of the coolant passages on cylinders #2-5 are blocked anyway, so there wouldn't be much exchange of coolant going on between the block and head in that area, right? For the most part, it would seem that the coolant would flow the length of the head, and then the length of the block, or vice versa. Is this correct?
(For those who don't know, I'm planning on mating a US250 block to a Crossflow head)
Coolant flow is no big thing if you use the DaviesCraig remote electric water pump.
Warning. There are issues with the device regarding people not following the DC instructions, but they do work well enough. You decide on the operation, and then operate the coolant system the way you want.
The method of water flow is up to you. You can change the pumping rate, restrict the big circular block hole, and fool around with the coolant passages in the head. I'd not ever change any thing over the flow path form the stock water pump. The point at which water starts to cavitate and the logistics of getting it sorted are huge. Every change can cause massive issues with the system.
One item I've looked at is that X-flow Aussie and Log American I6's have priorty head cooling via opposite sides of the block. If you are smart, you can create better head cooling than the stock set-up, great if you are going to turbo it!
Warning. There are issues with the device regarding people not following the DC instructions, but they do work well enough. You decide on the operation, and then operate the coolant system the way you want.
The method of water flow is up to you. You can change the pumping rate, restrict the big circular block hole, and fool around with the coolant passages in the head. I'd not ever change any thing over the flow path form the stock water pump. The point at which water starts to cavitate and the logistics of getting it sorted are huge. Every change can cause massive issues with the system.
One item I've looked at is that X-flow Aussie and Log American I6's have priorty head cooling via opposite sides of the block. If you are smart, you can create better head cooling than the stock set-up, great if you are going to turbo it!
Our sixes are cooled by water entering the pump and being forced thru the block first. There are some bypass passages that allow some coolant to move to the head along the way. The coolant flows primarily to the back of the block, then up to the head, and then forward to the thermostat housing.
I suppose it might be possible to pump the coolant into the head first, then extract it from the water pump opening. I'm not sure how this would work in the real world, but it should cool ok as long as you had sufficient volume of coolnat flow.
One thing that might be an issue is steam pockets and air. Normally, those rise and are expelled thru the t-stat into the radiator. Reversing the flow works against that process.
I'm sure it can be done, I'm just not sure what the gains would be.
I suppose it might be possible to pump the coolant into the head first, then extract it from the water pump opening. I'm not sure how this would work in the real world, but it should cool ok as long as you had sufficient volume of coolnat flow.
One thing that might be an issue is steam pockets and air. Normally, those rise and are expelled thru the t-stat into the radiator. Reversing the flow works against that process.
I'm sure it can be done, I'm just not sure what the gains would be.
A
Anonymous
Guest
wouldn't a cooler head allow for higher compression to be used on lower octane gas because it prevents the chamber from heating up too much and preventing detonation? where would u drill and tap new water pump lines to on the head?so if u were to get the electric pump, u could just mount it somewhere and run a hose from that into the head (possibly use a Y connection or tee or something and go to both front and rear of the head?) then make a blockoff plate for the stock water pump. Would that work? would the coolant flow from the head into the block and back out the water jacket?
SixFoFalcon
Well-known member
Air/gas evacuation seems to be the only hangup now. On my SHO, I believe the high point in the coolant flow is the throttle body coolant passage. This is fed by a small (~1/2") hose and the coolant is then returned to the degas bottle. I believe that any air produced by evaporation at the heads will naturally rise to the TB, and then the small diameter hose will aid in removing the bubbles with the flow of coolant back to the degas bottle.
Without sucessfully evacuating the gases from the head, I would end up overheating the combustion chambers, even while coolant temperature remains normal. This would be quite the opposite of the desired result.
However, if I tapped a small barb into the uppermost portion of the coolant passage in the head at cyl. #1 (naturally the highest point in the cooling system), and simply allowed a small amount of the coolant pumped into the head (regulated by the size of the hole and hose) to return to the radiator, I could at least partially degas the head while allowing the majority of the coolant to travel through the head and then return through the block.
The question now is how effective would that degas method be? Would it only degas cyl #1, since the flow of coolant would prevent any bubbles from rising up to the bypass point?
If money was no object, I guess the ideal situation would be to have the cool coolant entering the rear of the head, traveling to the front, where any accumulated gases would be evacuated, and then returning to the rear via the block's water jackets. That just ain't gonna happen though.
Without sucessfully evacuating the gases from the head, I would end up overheating the combustion chambers, even while coolant temperature remains normal. This would be quite the opposite of the desired result.
However, if I tapped a small barb into the uppermost portion of the coolant passage in the head at cyl. #1 (naturally the highest point in the cooling system), and simply allowed a small amount of the coolant pumped into the head (regulated by the size of the hole and hose) to return to the radiator, I could at least partially degas the head while allowing the majority of the coolant to travel through the head and then return through the block.
The question now is how effective would that degas method be? Would it only degas cyl #1, since the flow of coolant would prevent any bubbles from rising up to the bypass point?
If money was no object, I guess the ideal situation would be to have the cool coolant entering the rear of the head, traveling to the front, where any accumulated gases would be evacuated, and then returning to the rear via the block's water jackets. That just ain't gonna happen though.
