semi improve intake help...

[Anonymous]

just wondering the best way to make the stock intake better withoutreally going nuts in modifying....i want to keep it 1bbl for now till i start really working on the engine...but would certainly like a bit more performance...i have seen new carb spacers with grooves in them to help smooth and speed up the airflow...so i was thinking of making the hole bigger for the carb or just grooving it with my dremel...also would it make sence to just round off the area that i have painted red...thats at the bottom of the hole where the gas actually enters the manifold...i though if the 2 sides facing the 1 and 6 cylinders were rounded and smoothed the gas would flow to there a bit better and still not so goodto the middle cylinders to help even out the mixxture between the cylinders??? or would it be better to just round the whole thing???thanks for any advice or help

 

[Anonymous]

i know the drawing sucks butt....

anyone got any ideas...think his will help any???

 

[Anonymous]

I don't have any expertise in this at all, but here is what I have experienced with my 144 cid 1960 Comet.
When I bought her she was running the stock Holley carb. Now I was really unable to get a good drive out of her due to carb and vacuum problems, but I bought an NOS Holley carb for of a 170 cid and installed it with no other mods. I have the Mer-O-Matic 2 speed trans and I will be quite honest, she really does not drive bad. Off of the line she's a little slow, I figure the rear end has a taller gear to make up for the 2 speeds. But floored at about 20 she takes a deep breath and actually accelerates pretty well. I have also clocked, on my speed-o with stock tires, 85 mph. Now how accurate that was I really don't know, but gauged with traffic on the 90 toll way west bound out of Chicago where when there is no gridlock the average speed is 80, it was close! I was passing people!!
In a nut shell, the bigger carb should do a lot for improving power for pennies compared to the real work! Plus, over the 2k miles I have driven in the last three weeks after pulling her out of her 32 year sabbatical in a WI field, I have averaged a constant 23-26 mpg, and that is with my foot in her!
Sorry I am so long winded, too much coffee!
Duane

 

[falcon fanatic]

slayer, I woldn't bother with any of those gimmicks - you just won't get enough power to justify the effort. I see from your website that you have a round air cleaner. If you want to stay on the cheap, start with a K&N filter to replace that paper element that you have. Believe it or not, that will make a slight difference. Beyond that you will just have to bite the bullet and get a bigger carb as the next step. Langdon's Stovebolt sells a rebuild Holley-weber for like $65. That's pretty cheap! I think that carb is too small for a 250, though...(although bigger than the stock carb)

 

[Anonymous]

My impression is that the grooves would tend to collect fuel like baffles in a separator. I think the fuel distribution would be worse. In gas meters in the oil patch, if we have a short meter tube, we may put straightening vanes in the meter tube upstream of the orifice in order to get a more laminar straight flow. However, we would prefer more turbulence in the 6 cyl manifold to keep more of the fuel in suspension rather than clinging to the walls as occurs in laminar flow.

 

[ludwig]

Before you start swapping carbs and hogging out the throats, do the air filter change out and get into RAM AIR. Run some 2-2.5" flex piping from the radiator support to the snorkle of the air cleaner. You can find a lot of different takes on this in AzCoupe's picture gallery and on the FSP tech pages. I did it and it makes a BIG difference. Then do the swaps after this if you want to.

 

[addo]

One of the main issues is that automotive engines are not in a "steady state". The changing induction demands will determine the limits of feasibility for modding, as much as the actual intake construction.

If you lose that turbulence Doug refers to, you'll get a less smooth power curve as it falls flat, then picks up again. Looking inside Australian "logs" has convinced me they saved some of their best patternmaking for in there. It likely is the same for US built heads. Two smaller, identical carbs would be one approach, mounting one adjacent to the runner for #2, and the other on #5. A pair of 170 carbs oughtn't be too dear.

For a system like this, you'd use colortune plugs and removable baffling on runners 2 and 5 to get the distribution even. The smaller actual bore of these early carbs makes them a little easier to mount atop the log, too.

I'm looking at stuff that would work with an otherwise stock motor. When you start camming it up, some of these demands may no longer be current, and that's why a heavy carbing might work with reasonable evenness from one cylinder to the next.

Regards, Adam.

 

[Anonymous]

thanks guys for your replys....i'll go with a K&N filter and posibly a ram air setup.....

addo: what exactly are colortune plugs and how would i make some removable baffling...would i be able to just flatten out the areas on the head at the 2 and 5 port and not worry about getting rid of the pedistal in the middle and just make a block off plate or would this be in the way....all i would need to do for the linkage is make a solid bar going from both arbs and so it hooks up to the throttle cable so that the both get pulled at the same time??? gues it would be kinda like a spread out 2V carb...thanks again

 

[Anonymous]

Don't forget about the exhaust!!! Freeing up the exhaust with some headers will allow for more room to improve on the intake. If the exhaust is a choke point then you can only improve the intake so much.

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Dave and all:

Here is a list of things to do to get the most out of you stock one barrel carb set up, starting from free to cheap, to more involved and expensive. I'm in agreement with those who have already stated spacers are not worth there price.

I am assuming that you are starting with a clean, well tuned carb and a well serviced and timed ignition- And that your throttle linkage is properly adjusted to achieve full throttle.

1. Go back to your stock air cleaner set up. It will have a climatic control system getting cold air for cold starts and winter driving, and cold air for summer hot driving. Add a K&N element to it for about $30 US. If you want "The Look" have the top lid chrome plated.

1a. Spray down the inside of your carb with Gumot and run a can of Techron through your gas tank

2. If your carb is plumbed for hot water heat assist, reroute the hot water hose away from the carb for summer driving.

3. Rounding the short turn radius, where the carb hole "Ts" to the front cylinders and to the back, will improve flow slightly. Vacuum drawn a/f mixture will follow a rounded corner. It will shear and tumble at a sharp sharp corner. It is my belief that there is more than enough turbulence in these log heads with all the "T"s and blunt ends.

4. I'm not sure what carb you have on your Monarch, but if it's the later Holley #1946, you would do well to find and swap in a Carter RBS one barrel. The Carter RBS is rated at 215 CFM, but is much less encumbered with choke horn and epa control stuff than the later Carter YFs and Holley #1946 type carbs. The Carter RBS was only used on 1969 250 engines. You may be able to find a rebuilt one through a parts house. Another option would be a YF from a Ford 300 six. These carbs are quite a bit taller than an RBS, and may have idle and low speed transition problems that would have to be attended to with fairly sophisticated tuning.

5. Hindle makes a great point about your exhaust. Upgrading to a 2" or 2.25" system including a turbo or performance muffler would be a good foundation for your future performance plans. Check with you local laws about the legality of removing your Catalytic Converter, or upgrading to a modern high flow one.

Duanne- When you went to a 170 carb on your 144 you jumped from 130 CFM to 150 CFM. That's an increase you can notice.

Adios, David

 

[Anonymous]

Duanne- When you went to a 170 carb on your 144 you jumped from 130 CFM to 150 CFM. That's an increase you can notice.

Adios, David[/quote]

Thanks David,

I was always curious what the CFM was between the two!

Cheers,
Duane

 

[Anonymous]

thanks guys...i dont have any of the emissions type stuff or any odd hoses kicking around...so the climatic controll thing would be outof the question anyways....but i will probably rig up a ram air system....i have a well tuned system....i have used the carb cleaner already a few times....i have a Carter YFA carb on my engine which i think flows around 190 CFM....i also have a Carter RBS carb but i cant seem to tune it or set it up..i rebuilt it but i think i need to bring it in to get it rebuilt....it also is shorter which i like...i just havent played around with it much cause i got sick of playing with it...i will be sure to round the short turn radius....as for exhaust i am running 4' of straight pipe with no muffler or cat....but that mnay be too little back pressure and i have a 2" exhaust but want to duel it up for now...headers are still to pricey for me right now....my throttle cable is a stock cable type setup and i dont know how i would adjust it...but the kickdown is adjusted...thanks again guys...

 

[addo]

Colortune spark plugs have a glass insulator that lets you compare the colour of combustion in each cylinder as the motor runs. They're especially handy in multiple carb setups to ensure that the carbs are flowing equally. Here's a web site with some info. They're old tech but a good tool - note the instructions scanned in show a flathead four or similar!

Carb linkages just present themselves when the carbs are in place; you can buy so many end fittings, bellcranks and adjustable bits, it's not overly hard to get working.

Adam.

 

[Anonymous]

thanks addo....thats a lot of reading to do...seems like a bit of work to getting 2 carbs hooked up so thaat project may wait for a while since this car is used quite frequenly....not a daily driver since i work with my dad and dont need to drive but its certainly nice to have up and running and down no longer than a week....but what i did so far was enlarge the hole in the stock space....the hole in the manifold itself is actually larger than the carb hole but the spacer that holds the EGR is about 1mm smaller so i just ground that and polished it up...if its still light out when i go outside i will grind the bottom lip on the manifold....also before i did all this and came up with this thread i had shaved to top off the carb...the lip that holds the aircleaner is shaved off...i still have the mount and all that which screw in normally...i also have that filter customized...

the red part is the lip i shaved off...the blue is the theoretical airflow....the green is some suppost thing in the throat of the carb that normally has a flat top but i rounded it off to reduce any air turbulance that may have been caused by that...

i really dont know if i will notice the difference any of this makes...but what the heck....

 

[Anonymous]

I did the copper tube bypass surgery from under the carb. It takes approximately 10 minutes of idle to get the car up to regular temp area now from around 2 minutes. This was the cheapest modification and best result. Cost about $2 and immediate results. Anything will help for the weather is getting pretty hot here in houston.

 

[Anonymous]

copper tube bypass surgery??? could u please explain...or is it for the hot water to heat it up?

 

[Anonymous]

Straight from the falcon performance handbook.
Remove the water heater hoses from the carburator mount( where the hot water is used to heat the gas and air mixture for a quicker warm up).
put a piece of copper tubing into that hose and connect the two hoses. secure mthe heater hose up against the fender wall. This makes the carb mixture of air and gas cooler and thusly a cooler running engine. In the houston heat coming I'm searching out alll and every way to get a degree or two cooler running engine.

 

[Anonymous]

well i'm fine there...my car never had the water heated spacer.....

well i finished grinding everything today...took an hour or two....its really weird...the area where the gas flows in the manifold on the side of the 1-3 cylinders is different than the side toward the 4-6 cylinders....i just rounded and smoothed everything up and then polished it up a bit with 220 grit...i ground the stock EGR spacer..although i want to find a premade spacer without the EGR stuff cause there is a lip that the air/gas flow can really stumble on....then i polished that up as well...then i started er up and adjusted the timing a little more advanced...wow....seems to idle a bit smoother as well as the throttle response is a bit more how it should be...but that might also be from the blockoff plate i just made for the EGR....just trying to get the most out of what i got i guess...i definitely need to get a good muffler system though...thanks for all your help and ideas guys...i had fun grinding the short turn radius...got to find out what grinding cast iron was like for when i get a new head and can port and polish it....i cant take the car out for a spin which sucks but i sure hope i can feel the difference...oh well gotta wait till next week...