Sound coming from engine

[65fback]

I've got a new sound coming from my engine ('65 mustang, '66 200 block in it). I took the car out for a test drive (3 miles tops) after getting the horn sorted out. The car hasn't been driven in a month. I wanted to try to get to the bottom of the exhaust leak.

About halfway through the circuit the car started making a noise when gas is applied. Doesn't matter if the car was in neutral or in gear (or in park as I later found out). Like I said, only happens when I give it gas. More gas, louder the sound.

It sounds like the sound is coming from the front of the engine.

I have a recording, but I can't post it here (size restrictions). I'll try to set it up hosted somewhere and put a link here later.

I've had the car a month and a half now. Things I've done since I've had the car:
* changed the oil (it REALLY needed) and filter
* changed the antifreeze.
* flushed the coolant system - there was a lot of NASTY stuff I found right around the thermostat and the coolant itself looked ugly.
* replaced thermostat (and the housing. Pain in the butt. Housing was off for a week while I was trying to get a broken bolt out)
* replaced the heater core (old one let go on me)
* replaced all coolant hoses
* sorted electrical fixes (a short, broken wires, bulbs, light switch, and horn)

Could some of the nasty stuff gotten into the water pump and screwed it up?

 

[65fback]

http://s1049.photobucket.com/albums/s39 ... 274985.mp4

 

[JackFish]

Maybe valve train?
Or something loose in the carb?

 

[Asa]

I initially had a bad problem with my rocker arms working loose starting from the #1 cylinder. They would loosen up enough so that ultimately the first pushrod would slip out of the cup of the rocker arm and I would end up running on 5 cylinders.
Took me a time or two to actually get it sorted, but it sort of had a similar noise. I can't tell if I'm talkin about the right noise though because you don't really tell us what noise you're actually looking for, so I'm unsure if you mean the rattle sound, or the sort of chirping sound.

Chirping should be easy though, as it sounds like a classic belt slipping

 

[mannella]

Its hard to say but could it be the exhaust leak is acting like a squeeze pipe, when you put more pressure on it the sound changes. It sounded like a squeal and not a mechanical problem such as metal hitting on metal

 

[65fback]

Exhuast leak: the leak has been there since I got the car beginning of july. I'm just glad I went to tweak the gas with the hood open and saw it come out. I have a much better chance of getting to the bottom of it. I'm already planning on putting the camcorder in a better spot and get a real good look at where the leak is.

Slipping belt: I hadn't thought of that. To be honest, my first thought was, 'Oh no. That can't be good'. Next thoughts were, "Problem with engine??? Blocked oil passage? That hour test drive before I bought the car with that old nasty oil is coming to get me??? Coolant flush dislodged something that is having 'fun' with the water pump?" I have changed all the coolant hoses because they looked older and I didn't know HOW OLD. Thermostat (and the housing....) got changed as well. There was a LOT of junk in the housing. And that was after the first flush (did it twice). The belt looks new, so I hadn't given a second thought to looking at it.

Dusting off my memory here (it's been 20 years since I touched the front end of an engine that is owner friendly...), adjusting the belt tension isn't that big of a deal, right? It should be as simple as loosening up the alternator, adjusting the tension, and tightening the bolt. That's low hanging fruit (i.e., FREE) if I ever saw it. I guess I'll take a closer look at the belt too and make sure it is in as good shape as I had thought on first blush.

*fingers crossed* If it's the belt, then I'm just about there for getting it inspected and enjoying driving the car. Don't get me wrong - having something to work on is great, especially since there is generally room on everything to get a wrench in and get leverage. (I just did the front stabilizer bar links on my '05 Freestyle. What a pain). I just really really really want to drive the car and enjoy it in its current state while I save up for the funds to do the engine....

 

[65fback]

Sound coming from engine doesn't come when engine is cold, at least not in the driveway.

I checked the alternator belt. It wasn't exactly loose. I don't have the official 'belt tension tester' tool from Ford, so I can't be sure it's proper.

But I did notice a fair bit of play in the fan shaft. I can grab it and wiggle it back and forth. It's not a whole lot, but it is there. Should I be able to do that?

 

[Asa]

Fan shaft, as in water pump shaft?

No, not really. Could be the bearings in it are going out. Have you noticed any coolant leaks? Usually those are designed so that when the bearing starts to fail the coolant seeps past and weeps out

 

[wsa111]

Remove the fan belt & see if the noise goes away.
If so do as Evan says, replace the water pump.
Has the outer ring of the harmonic balance come loose??
Best of luck on finding the problem. Bill

 

[Soldmy66]

I would guess it is H20 pump. To verify, start the car, take a long metal rod or long handled screw driver, place one end against the water pump and the other end against your ear; it is it the water pump the bearing noise will tranfer through the rod to your ear. Similar concept to stethoscope.

 

[MPGmustang]

it can also be the torque converter, water pump, rocker arms, exhaust leak...

the exhaust leak might be making that sound... try the screw driver trick here... best way to fix exhaust leak is to use copper RTV and apply thick to both sides of gasket and retighten bolts after every 5 drives 4 times.

the water pump could too, screw driver trick is priceless...
the doesn't sound like a belt
it could be the alt, try the screw driver trick here...
it could be gas pump, screw driver would help here too...

check fluid level on trans

 

[65fback]

OK....

I pulled the belt tonight. A few observances:
* It's a new belt
* I had to take the bottom bolt out of the alternator to get it in far enough to remove the belt. Is that normal? I'm going to write the belt info down and see how it compares to what's in the book.
* And the coup de grace: the upper bracket was LOOSE. Not a whole lot, but just enough.

Started the car, took a *very* short test drive - I couldn't get it to make the noise just idling and pulling the accelerator previously. No noise. Got it back to the yard, put the belt back on and tightened that bracket. Took another test drive. Car was well and truly warmed up by that time. Still no noise.

So am I looking at a belt that slips slightly when under load because the bracket was loose? I would have expected that to have been tight seeing as the PO went through the bother of putting a new belt on. Silly me.

As for other points raised (and thanks for all!)
* transmission fluid looks clear and full.
* No, there doesn't seem to be any weeping (yet) from the pump. It's on my list to replace now anyways, but I think it can wait...

As for the exhaust leak, it is coming from the siamese port. I'm pretty sure of it. I got the grey puff to come out again when I pulled the accelerator linkage after coming back from the second test drive. (Only get it the once). Very clearly came from the siamese port area. I can SEE a gap in the middle. It looks like the manifold isn't completely seating against the head. Am I correct in remembering something about this being a common occurence?

Anyhow, hopefully that's the end of the noise for now.

 

[Soldmy66]

I am happy to hear the problem has gone away.

Re the water pump, sometimes they leak/weep prior to failing; however, I have had them fail without weeping, but with very obvious bearing-grinding sounds; just an FYI.

 

[MPGmustang]

on the exhaust leak, the stock manifolds have a 'hot air riser' that air is 'sucked' through to the choke, it goes from the bottom to the top of the exhaust manifold. it is VERY common for these 'hot air riser' to leak being as old as they are.

to see if your's is leaking you would take it off and inspect it, or even put it in water and blow air though the hole looking for leaks inside the manifold between the siamese port.

 

[69.5Mav]

start the car, take a long metal rod or long handled screw driver, place one end against the water pump and the other end against your ear

DANGER Will Robins DANGER!

Do not try this. If that metal rod gets caught up in the fan blades it can put it right through your head.

If you must do this use a real mechanics stethoscope.

 

[chad]

"...use a real mechanics stethoscope..."
Yes! caution in all things - thanks for the reminder.
(never did like a robot that said that & waved arms around, red headed kid kinda obnoxious, & wasn't there some kinda weaseie professor? Definitely a memorable show tho.)

or/ keep it away from that area
or/ use a lill hose (like IV line, fuel line, etc)

BTW: I saw a Maverick on the road yesterday. Very unusual in the NE! It had orig. paint (had faded to a nice peach) of what color I could not tell, w/the nice blacked out rear tail lght panel. Wish I could have gotten (the college aged) fella's attention....

 

[69.5Mav]

Yes! caution in all things - thanks for the reminder.

I am not a machinist or anything but I was always taught to be captious around rotating machinery. A rubber tube could still get caught up but the worst you could get is a good brooze.

There are still a few Mavericks around. It’s kind of nice seeing them still running.

 

[Soldmy66]

start the car, take a long metal rod or long handled screw driver, place one end against the water pump and the other end against your ear

DANGER Will Robins DANGER!

Do not try this. If that metal rod gets caught up in the fan blades it can put it right through your head.

If you must do this use a real mechanics stethoscope.

Of course you need to be careful. That would still be the case regardless of whether the item being used is a screwdriver, a stethoscope or any other item or body part. That is no different than using any power tool.

So, assuming one is careful, this is still a viable and simple diagnostic process. And that is why I emphasized it should be a long rod (or screwdriver); the farther away from the miving part - the better.

 

[Route--66--]

Hi
wish I'd seen this thread earlier
Myself and another 200ci owner had a weird metal-on metal sound at top front of the engine.. pulled the fan belt to find the noise went away and we both (at different times) bought new water pumps, only to find that the noise was still there.
In the end found out it was actually the fan belt making the noise .. which was weird as they usually make a 'screech' sound .. but this really was a sound like water pump bearings had gone.

If you do have fair amount of play in the pump bearing it may well be that (and for the tiny price you can get a pump for in the US I'd get a new one anyway personally ..but ..

****before you get a new pump ... as the engine is running (and making the noise) spray some WD40 between the inside of the belt and water pump pulley (do you use WD40 on your side of the pond?? (it's a light kind of oil lubricant in a spray can)) you may find the noise goes away, it did with mine, every time!

Funnily enough you mention that you had to take the bottom bolt out of the alternator - indicating a too-short belt .. mine was also on the short side - I bought a longer fanbelt which cured the noise .. (I think maybe the pulleys might have been very slightly out of alignment and because the longer belt moved them away from each other it kinda compensated for that..

Hoping it's 'that' simple for you
Happy motoring!

 

[65fback]

Yeah, we have wd-40. Kind of anemic. I've moved to pb blaster but have some of both. I'll definitely try longer belt. The pump is on the short list to replace but it's behind the rubber gasoline hoses, fuel filter, and changing the rear lube to do first.

Where in UK are you? I almost got relocated close to Reading last year before things turned south.