Stock Dizzy with Phased Rotor

Bayrunner

Bayrunner

Well-known member
I am looking to get the Holley Sniper to control timing. Simplicity over megajolt+Holley, MSD26AL+Holley.

My issue is that with the Crossflow head, I cannot fit a larger dizzy, ie HEI, Billet, etc. due to space. Has anyone figured out a way to phase the stock dizzy rotor? I will be using the petronics II to get a signal.

Thanks
 
Im an out in the field Prime-mover driver. I responded but my post was lost.


IMHO, the way I understand it, You need to set up a crank position sensor on your crank balancer and an additional cam sensor "under" your Autolite 1968 points based distributor. That's two three wire Hall sensors making two signals of a similar type to one kind of Chevy HEI 7 pin module EST system. Ford Australia and GM Holden used the same Bosch 61 series distributor to do this way back in 1982 ( Phase 3 Starfire Four and XT5 3.3 Six) to 1985 (Ford Falcon XF pre-unleaded and Unleaded).

Check how:-

1.67Straightsix on Ford Six and
2. Devin vanderhoof with his MSD/ Holley crank sensor and cam sensor 5.0 White Fox 1000 hp V8 drag racerand

3. the 4.0 turbo stroker Jeep Dorton on youtube did it.

Holley wants you to use its HyperSpark ignition system.

On Prox sensors Holley has mastered it, but you have to integrate parts and get a clean three wire signal foe the Sniper to work.

Dont ring Devin vanderhoof at 1am, but he knows how to solve your problem. Don't let a novice know it all grin funk you with bullsh!÷.

This is a simple sensor issue.

When I have time, I can send you links but I work 70 hours a week and have given you the answers out of courtesy, I can't spoon feed you if your trying to be thrifty. The issue is: You are trying to avoid a purchase. The solution is to use a thesameguy and 67Straightsix style cam sensor while still using a points Aurolite/ Duraspark I body.

So you are being structured and specific, but somewhere, you are going to have to engineer a solution.

Fords Australian October 1980 to 1991 Bosch Duraspark and Ford EST TFi were there chosen solution.

Like bleed back retuen line carburation, and emission control delete, carb PCV and Weber 2 bbl carb set up, everyone thinks its as easy as ABC. But its not.

I have very specfically described these systems to many people who have X flow 200 and 250 sixes. Ignition -wise, Re-sciencing something Ford Australia did with US parts requires

1.basic reading,

2. then understanding,

3.then discussion

4.and then feedback with a proxomity sensor specialist.

None of those except 67Straightsix or Devin vanderhoof have a g-d damned idea what you need.

So keep focused, but youll have to spend sometime understanding what your Holley Sniper sensors need exactly. The problem is as 67Straightsix found when using his Standard Motor Products 51 or 74 series crank and other cam posotion sensors. Holley work on the first signal being the rising from negative to positive. The data wont be accepted by the Sniper ECM unless its EXACTLY right.
 
This is a great start for me mate, thanks for the info. I will do some reading and hit you up with additional concerns. :banghead:

Cheers :beer:
 
OK Mate All of the info you sent was informative and quite cool. But, I think that I did not state my case with enough clarity.

When I mentioned Holley Sniper, I mean the stand alone TBI with all of the ecu housed in it. I have read all of their literature as well as been talking to their tech support, and they are telling me that a trigger wheel will not work with this. Obviously, they want me to buy a Hyperspark distributor and MSD coil and sell me everything they make under the sky.

But, I do not know enough about the signal this thing requires to control timing other than, it can only read single pulse per fire ignition events with even spacing. This has baffled me because from all of the research I have done, a Crank trigger, I thought did just that.
So, I am back to using the stock dizzy, replacing the points to magnetic and somehow trying to get the stock rotor to phase in order for me to be able to control the timing from the handheld unit that the Sniper talks to.

If I was able to fit a larger Dizzy, then I would have some options on phasable rotors, etc. But I do not have the space. The Aussiespeed intake is in the way of a taller/larger distributor. I am not familiar with the BOSH Duraspark. I have tried to find info on it but cannot get any dimensions to verify fitment.

Any help would be much appreciated, Cheers
 
The Holley Sniper TBi uses Chevy logic. It is not sequential, so Holley say you just need its own proprietry ignition system.So you have to quiz Devin or the Holley website and get some real answers. Because of space limits, the HyperSpark isnt an option. So, you'll have to get the online tech Holley support guy to be truthfull in what the sensor inputs are. They are good, but not really knowledgable about an in line Ford Cross flow six...the ignorance is based on innocent thinking that Holleys Sniper system can put a HyperSpark anywhere.

Youd be better off buying a HyperSpark and belt driving it off a Glimer belt from a repurposed power steering bracket.

I like to know what signal a HyperSpark produces, and generate the signals ut requires. Im fully aware that Sniper is a blanket marketing term.

The team at Holley need to step up. Aussie Cross Flow OHV 250 and OHC 3.2/3.9/Intech 4.0 guys would all run ti use the Sniper TBi if Holley USA tech would just spent some time giving some simple answers to the ignition ouput requirenents for the ECM to work.
 
Correct, non-sequential Hall signal. Both the Accel as well as Petronics will give it the signal it needs. Straight up no MSD 6A.
My issue is, how to make the rotor button phase.

Setting the Advance 45* BTC on the crank, making sure the magnet is on point with the reader on the electronics module , the rotor has to phase right before the #1 terminal, My issue is, for the stock dizzy, how to adjust the rotor and set it in place. :banghead:

Any ideas would be much appreciated.

OR
How to modify a Hyperspark to accept an early model dizzy cap in order for it to fit?

Thanks in advance.
 
Does the stock distributor have a vacuum advance?
I'm assuming you are locking out the mechanical advance?

If so you can use the vacuum advance plate that the pickup sits on to change the position of the pickup which will change the rotor phasing.
Between moving the pickup and turning the distributor to restore 45* crank timing you should be able to have both the rotor position and the crank timing where you need them to be.
 
pmuller9":3l7mdinw said:
Does the stock distributor have a vacuum advance?
I'm assuming you are locking out the mechanical advance?

If so you can use the vacuum advance plate that the pickup sits on to change the position of the pickup which will change the rotor phasing.

Between moving the pickup and turning the distributor to restore 45* crank timing you should be able to have both the rotor position and the crank timing where you need them to be.
Click to expand...

Solid answer right there.

I still havent heard any answer from any of the questions asked on thr Holley forum, so the 36 degrees of total advance and around 10 degrees of crank advance can be indexed using a locked distribtor, and use the Holley/MSD Sequential Injection crank trigger as a base timing setting for the distributor. The TBi Sniper uses the phased base timing to start the electronic spark timing. Copy Devin vandeethoof method in this video. The Pertronic point trigger should invoke spark and signal the Sniper TBi. The CPS will allow you to set base timing, which is distribtor phase.

Have at look at base setting for CPS here.

https://youtu.be/2u5B8BaRRXY

See post #9 here

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=76333

Electronic spark timing just requires are low amperage trigger and physical phasing that allows the distribtor body to be indexed.

What peopke dont realise is That is Very Hard on a cross flow head with an Autolite points and vacuum advance 1968 distibutor. You might have the advance canistor hitting the intake or the block. If its removed, you will have room to index the distributor anywhere.

Locking the grove on the distributor bsse often requires some aluminum or hold down modification and advance unit removal.
 
Thanks Guys, this is very encouraging. I have 2each of the stock dizzys, I will start to modify the spare one and see how close I can get it to phase.

Thanks
 
The guy that owns Hamilton Fuel Injection has very specific knowledge of how to phase autolite and motorcraft distributors. If you go to BindersPlanet you can find very detailed information from him, Bill USN-1, on how to phase one of these distributors. He will also do the conversion for you if you send him your dizzy.

http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/...park-distributor-conversion-part-due-2.56246/

http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/index.php?threads/amc-258-ds-distr-conversion.114800/#post-814271

http://www.hamiltonfuelinjection.com/

I think you could also do it by using a small cap DSI dsitributor if that fits, I think it's the same size. And like pmuller9 stated discard the vac can and make a bracket to lock the vac advance in the proper position, maybe with adjustability like those brackets for the HEI's that do just that.

The easiest and most foolproof way would be to simply use Holley's Hyperspark distributor p/n 565-315. If it fits, maybe too tall? That also may require you to use their Hyperspark CD box, I don't know. That's what they suggest.

https://www.holley.com/products/fue.../sniper_efi/hyperspark_ignition/parts/565-315
 
Wow Econoline!

The Hyperspark is way too tall. But, the conversion Bill is doing is exactly what I needed. Thank you. I now have a solution. This will work for my application!
Much Appreciated!!!!
 
Your welcome. That's the path I was going to down before holley released the new dist.
 
Econoline, Any Ideas on how to contact Bill? I have tried to reach him through his website as well as the other forum. No Go

Thanks
 
I have always liked the DuraSpark II Ignitions systems Fo their durability since back when they were brand new. For a budget type daily driver build up a DSII ignition is very hard to beat or on a more Hi Performance build with a few parts upgrades like a HEI module swap, or an MSD box, Coil, Wires, ect.

I discovered this company a couple months ago by chance so though I would pass on the info on for those needing a performance type distributor. Now there is a new solution that's totally digital so no more mechanical advance parts to wear out or adjust. This unit is programed by using your smart phone, I Pad, ect. Check out their small and large cap versions of Progression Ignition distributors that is loaded with great features and fit our Ford Small and Big Block Six engines, (and most other engines that had a distributor type ignition too) in the end it is likely to be less money and time for a much better ignistion system. I also have few videos of these being tested if your interested. Enjoy
:nod:
.

Progression Ignition
https://progressionignition.com

Listings for a Ford Engines Including Our Small and Big Six's
https://progressionignition.com/shop/ol ... istributor

Good luck
 
Econoline, thanks for the number. I will try and call him.
Bubba- I have talked to them. Great stuff they offer but for my application, the distributor is way to tall to fit. I have frankensteined an ausie head onto a US 250 Block, once more, so it is too tight for what they offer just like the Holley ones.

Thanks
 
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