Stock Steel Rim info needed for Scarebird Conversion

[Williboy]

As some might know from the other long post, TMc and I are in the process of a Scarebird conversion and have come up against some rim fitment problems. And looking at past post so have many others. So I'm starting a new post to hopefully simplify this.

This what I know so far; There are two different size/style of 4-lug 14x4.5" rims.
One w/ a 3.5" backspace and a 8" front ring w/ 3 tabs to hold the dogdish hub cap from a 13" rim. This rim will not fit the Scarebird disc. I refer to these as "Bad" rims.
The other 14" rim has 3" backspace, a 9" front ring and 4 tabs. The small dogdish will not fit. This rim does fit the Scarebird disc. Now known as the "Good" rims.

Here are pic of the two rims. http://s294.photobucket.com/albums/mm94/glevin61/?special_track=nav_tab_album

Apparently, the bad is an early year and the good is later year but I can't find out what year the change happened.

What I'm looking for is good basic info, measurements and/or pics of which stock steel rims fit and came from which years.

Hopefully we can compile this info and post as a Sticky and also pass it on to Scarebird for their reference.

 

[addo]

Won't there be part numbers stamped on the rims? Here the P/N was frequently on the "well" visible when the tyre is removed.

 

[Williboy]

On the "bad' rim there is a 4M and a very lightly stamped C, G or O and a Ford oval logo stamped on the flat spot between the lugnuts holes on the front of the rim. On the backside in the same spot between the lugnut holes there is "AC" on three and "AE" on one. Nothing is on the inside.
On the "good" rim, there is a 1, 2 and possibly a 7(??) stamped in a triangle formation also between the lugnut holes on the front. There is a 4 clearly stamped on the inside of the rim. ( Where the tyre goes) Nothing on the backside. All my rims are definitely 14x4 1/2" I posted all the 4 x 4 1/2" lug interchange on the other post "Ford 4 Lug 14 inch Wheel Options Cross Reference'

Quoting the Hollander book.
4x4 1/2"- lug
14 x 4 1/2"
C4DZ1007A exc. Comet & Maverick
D0DZ1007E Comet & Maverick
Comet '65 6 cyl
Comet '71-72 14x4 1/2, 4 stud
Falcon '64-65 6 cyl
Falcon '66-67 6 cyl 2 & 4 dr Sdn
Maverick '70 14x4 1/2
Maverick '71-72 14x4 1/2, 4 stud
Mustang '65-66 6 cyl. optional 14"
Mustang '67 6 cyl.

 

[HARVEY LIGHT]

I found two Maverick rims in my local junkyard - they fit nicely. Problem is they don't match teh dog dish hub caps so I'm looking for some baby moons instead.

 

[powerband]

I recently completed a Scarebird setup on a '61 Comet. Here's a pic of some wheels I have tried.

Here's L-R, 13X4.5, 14X4.5 Small Hubcap wheels and 14X4.5 Large Hubcap wheels. the Small cap wheels with three retainer tabs are supposed to be from a 6 cyl. Mustang @ '66, The "large cap 4 retainer wheels are from a '71 Maverick six...

Here you can see the backspace difference (from 4.5).
"Small cap"

"LArge Cap 14"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

13" rim hasn't a chance

"Small 14" on the hub there's the rub...

LArge cap 14 is no problem

I have a Nissan 240SX wheel I want to try, I tried it with the stock brakes and had interference front and rear.

Here's what I'm using on the front disc setuP;you can see how tight the caliper is

I got the pair at Rhinebeck fro $20. if anyone has anyinfo, I was told they were on a trailer. They say - "SUPERDRAG - SUPERIOR INDUSTRIES VAN NUYS = SEMA 14X5.5.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/Powerband/WHEELS/100_6540.j

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/Powerband/WHEELS/100_6527.jpgpg[/IMG]

Powerband

 

[Williboy]

Powerband,
Thanks for the pics, that's pretty much the same I found.

I did find this pic of a '67 with what looks like the "good" rims w/ the largers center cap. Is that the correct rim for that year????

What year did Ford( Mustang) switch from the smaller center cap to the larger???

Harvey Light
check out some of the custom Rim shops
http://wheelvintiques.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/page84.html

They have baby moons style with Ford logos

 

[Kustomkarma]

I've been a member for awhile, but haven't posted since last Fall as I've been really busy with school, work, etc. Either way, I'm part way through a Scarebird conversion on my 4 lug '64 Comet. My problem is this, like everyone else I am trying to find wheels that fit, but am not sure what to purchase. I have found some 4 lug wheels that are said to be from a '68 Mustang. Using a straight edge and measuring from the back edge down to the wheel mounting surface they guy says that they are 3.5 inches and not the 3 inches that are said to fit the conversion. Is this possible or is he measuring wrong? To further complicate things, I have some of the four bump hupcap wheels, but they measure 3.75 from the outside to the mounting surface - will these fit? Finally, I have also found some wheels that are said to fit a '70 - '72 Maverick, will these fit. I guess ultimately, I'm just going to start sticking wheels on the car to see what works. Now I do have a set of 14 x 6 mags that I'm pretty sure will fit, but with manual steering and two bad elbows, I figured they'd be too hard to turn. Anyone run wide front tires and manual steering, how well does it work? One last question - what size 14 inch tires should I run if I want to get close to original sized 13 inchers outside diameter. Sorry about the long, complicated post, but this has really got me confused.

 

[powerband]

I've been a member for awhile, but haven't posted since last Fall as I've been really busy with school, work, etc. Either way, I'm part way through a Scarebird conversion on my 4 lug '64 Comet. My problem is this, like everyone else I am trying to find wheels that fit, but am not sure what to purchase. I have found some 4 lug wheels that are said to be from a '68 Mustang. Using a straight edge and measuring from the back edge down to the wheel mounting surface they guy says that they are 3.5 inches and not the 3 inches that are said to fit the conversion. Is this possible or is he measuring wrong? To further complicate things, I have some of the four bump hupcap wheels, but they measure 3.75 from the outside to the mounting surface - will these fit? Finally, I have also found some wheels that are said to fit a '70 - '72 Maverick, will these fit. I guess ultimately, I'm just going to start sticking wheels on the car to see what works. Now I do have a set of 14 x 6 mags that I'm pretty sure will fit, but with manual steering and two bad elbows, I figured they'd be too hard to turn. Anyone run wide front tires and manual steering, how well does it work? One last question - what size 14 inch tires should I run if I want to get close to original sized 13 inchers outside diameter. Sorry about the long, complicated post, but this has really got me confused.

Relax, If you can get the Maverick wheels, they fit on the '61/Scarebird setup. I've run into GM or other 4 lug that fit but they may or may mot work with the discs...

The Mav' wheels of course take the newer/ bigger hubcaps. Moons are an alternative, the original aluminum Maverick poor-man "halfcaps" actually looked OK ...

Tthe slow low-geared steering (@17:1 ?) doesn't add up to much additional effort with wider rims and tires.

Powerband .

 

[Kustomkarma]

Thanks for the response! I'm itching to get this car on the road, but there's still a lot to do - wheels and tires being one of those things. I'm thinking that the Maverick wheels would be the best way to go, but if my mags fit the front, I'll just go with them.

What sized tires should I be running in order to make everything fit and still be able to keep my speedometer fairly accurate. The wheels I'll probably be using are 14 x 6.

 

[David_Conwill]

Has anyone tried using one of the 14-inch "small cap" centers with a new rim and adjusted backspacing? Seems most of these rims are a bit narrow for the tire sizes I want to run anyway.

-Dave

 

[powerband]

As some might know from the other long post, TMc and I are in the process of a Scarebird conversion and have come up against some rim fitment problems. And looking at past post so have many others. So I'm starting a new post to hopefully simplify this.

This what I know so far; There are two different size/style of 4-lug 14x4.5" rims.
One w/ a 3.5" backspace and a 8" front ring w/ 3 tabs to hold the dogdish hub cap from a 13" rim. This rim will not fit the Scarebird disc. I refer to these as "Bad" rims.
The other 14" rim has 3" backspace, a 9" front ring and 4 tabs. The small dogdish will not fit. This rim does fit the Scarebird disc. Now known as the "Good" rims.

Here are pic of the two rims. http://s294.photobucket.com/albums/mm94/glevin61/?special_track=nav_tab_album

Apparently, the bad is an early year and the good is later year but I can't find out what year the change happened.

What I'm looking for is good basic info, measurements and/or pics of which stock steel rims fit and came from which years.

Hopefully we can compile this info and post as a Sticky and also pass it on to Scarebird for their reference.

You do a good job and sum up the 4-Lug wheel question for Scarebird application and the Small center Dogdish Caps. Here's some additional anecdotal info:

I have a '63 Falcon Wagon and for Header Clearance problems and better tire selection wanted 14" rims. I wanted to retain the early "Bottlecap" Hubcaps and looked for a long time for suitable wheels. The very rusty-but usable 14" set I got was supposed to be from a 65, 66 or 67 Mustang with small center - 3 tab @8" as you mention. They DO NOT fit on the Scarebird conversion. I have Scarebird Disc setup on a '61 Comet - Scarebird setup used '71 Maverick 4-lug wheels which fit fine but can't use early hubcaps.

( I also tried Nissan 240SX 15" wheels - cleared the calipers but hit the ball joints and rear brake plates with TOO MUCH offset)

14" "Small Center" rims:




14" MAverick "Large Center Rims"

 

[Williboy]

Wow, this is an old post from the past.

I ended up going with 70's Maverick rims. Which I got for free when I got a Mav 8" rearend. I used 14" trim rings and 57-59 Fairlane/Ranchero centercaps. The Fairlane caps fit the bigger center but still have the "old" look.

I bought and was going to a 1" spacer on the front with the smaller 14" but then I got the deal on the Maverick rims. Also I found out that a couple of the smaller 14" were bent.

I still have the 1" spacer and I was going to submit a post with a different aproach to the Scarebird conversion. Basicly it was to use the spacer with exsisting stock studs, and grind down the hubs yourself. It will cost more, but won't require any outside machine shop work. It could all be done with home tools.

One thing I found out during install was that I got two different (Nissan) rotors. One w/ a machined inside, where your hub fits, and one w/ a cast inside. The cast inside rotor was slightly smaller ID, and I unfortunately didn't realize this and had my hubs machined down to the larger of the two. When installing, I had to borrow a friends hand grinder and realized I could of done all the grinding myself.

 

[HARVEY LIGHT]

Did the conversion and found that the "Bad" rims COULD fit if you ground a bit off the inside edge where the caliper hit. I also ground a bit off the caliper. It worked, but I didn't like the close tolerances and got a little grinding when the car was turned. So I found 3 Maverick rims (2 front & 1 spare tire) and all is well. Wheel Vintiques has the 4 x 4 1/2 steel wheels but I'm saving for a new dash pad first. Had the same issue with the hubcaps but i's nice to know the 57's will fit. Love old school looks with modern mechanics underneath.By the way 65 Futura 2 door post, soon to have 200 bored 60 over with H/W carb and single outlet header

 

[ebush 64]

Sure would like to find a set of the bad rims!

 

[Williboy]

And I thought a 2009 post was old!! Was going thru junk email folder and this came up.

I do still have the 1” spacers that I previously mentioned in my post. From I recall they should be able to make a 13” rim fit. Let me know if your interested in them.

BTW. I still have my 61. Sits in the garage mostly, but still take it it out every so often.