stroker.....again!!!!!

[Anonymous]

ok after a few threads i've sorta gathered enuf info from you fine folk to start collecting bits/saving.

i started this thread to eliminate confusion from the other threads.

so.....anyways...

ford falcon 1999 au block (sohc).

ef crank offset ground (how much i dont know- xecute do you know the max i can go)

now i think i will bore the block 60 thou and have the block sleaved.

and as for pistons a set of forged customs will have to be the go.

as for rods a set of custom h or i beam forged rods mesuring 6.5-7 inches or so. that means i will have to run a spacer

the block will receive hardned steel mains caps with arp studs with the 12mm thick crank girdle i have in the bottom end now.

arp rod bolt will be installed as like i have now.

now i want thoughts/arguments/suggestions/input....what ever what ever helps me atain a 290 cube ohc inline six cylinder that will rev to 6500 with out breaking a sweat.

any help will be appreciated.... XECUTE!!!!! I KNOW U WANNA GET IN ON THIS!!!!

cheers.joe.

PS. for those of you interested...... if you can't seem to find arp rod bolts for the ohc i6 motors... i'll let u in on a little secret... but dont go teling it to everyone (its what i ahve been doing for a few years now and its what holds my bottom ends togeather).

use mitsubishi 4g63 arp rod bolts. the rods have to be releived around the nuts of the rod bolts by around .65 of a 1mm and the bolts themselves have to ground down half a mill in length to fit. they arnt the perfect solution but they are the closest out there (the old 250 x-flow bolt dont fit). the stock factory rods just shot peened (DO NOT LINISH THEM) with the arp rod bolts have handle 750hp so far. i plan on pushing the stock rods/crank/block to the 1000hp barreir b4 i build this strocker motor.

cheers again.joe.

 

[xctasy]

Okay, shooting from the hip, here's my info.

Option One:

If you want 290 cubes from a 243 block, then you need a 4.666" ( 666 again ) stroke. How the blazes you'd fit that is beyound my fibrile brain. A set of Jag 4.2 Rods are about 7" long. The block would need large windows to suit the legs trying to do a Cossack leg dance. I don't think its doable, even with no camshaft spoiling the leg-room situation. We need to trail a block, and then work out the travelled envelope of the rods, rod bolts, and journal. 1.0" compression height piston again. Custom crank out of steel.

Option Two:

I'd be looking for a Hard Filled block (its a US cement brew which can fill up up to half the cylinder walls) and then sleaving that . If there was no water hitting the sleave, then you'd be okay, and there would be bulk strength.

To get 290 cubes, you need 3.8" bores and a 4.262" stroke. This would need a 6.34" con rod with crankpin no smaller than 1.875" in diameter, 1 inch tall pistons with a 125 thou dish, and that would give a 1.5:1 rod ratio. The crank would have to be offset ground, and then, gasp, welded. The block would have to be rasied using a 250 thou tall head gasket spacer plate. The rings would, in a non-sleaved block, hit the top of the old block deck, because the top ring would be so close to the top of the piston.

Option Three:

If you are sleaving it, just raise the block to 9.89" or so with a 673 thou plate. Get JP to make a custom chain drive with enough links to make it fit. The amount of bore you could get out of it is likely to be about 3.72" with sleaves, with block rock. That would mean a bore out to the water jackets at 3.8", then a bare minimum sleave. A diesel guy is the best to talk to on how to do this. With 3.72" bores, you'd need a 4.447" stroke. I believe a rod ratio of not less than 1.5:1 is needed, so you'd need 6.67" rods, and 1" compression height pistons to get a target of around 9.89" of deck. How you get the stroke is up to you. Cast cranks don't like too much weld, although a good girdle and seven huge mains should help.

Then get custom 1" thick compression height Wiseco pistons. Then look for some rods from Toyota or Nissan or Honda on the web. The Honda No Sex (NSX) rods are titanium...yum yum.

 

[Anonymous]

hmmmmm... :roll: :roll: :roll:

sounds like $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to me lmfao.

ok i think i'll have to get a custom crankshaft specialties crank made up they use forged billet steel for their cranks. only downside.... its 3grand australian to get one

the rods i will be getting custom pouter rods from the states (1200 bux aust.)

custom pistons will have to be localy sourced (tho i dont know where....being forged alloy ones to suit). but pistons usually go for 1500 as well.
add a au block thats 400

all the machine work 2500 including sleaving and grounting the block

500 for the mains caps

300 for mains studs

2000 for what ever else that may happen.

so thats approx 11500 bux or so *gulp*

i've already spent the big bux (3500) on the cylinder head so theres no need for another (flowing 420hp). the turbo i have as well as the rest of all the gear needed.

i want to see at least 1200fwhp reliably out of the ford motor

so 32 psi 4.9lt 6500-6800rpm =1200fwhp should hope fully see them numbers
atm its 32psi 4.0lt 5500rpm= 740fwhp so cant too hard to get the other 440hp now can it?

hey i've seen skyline rb26 motor stoked to 3.2lt making 1000hp revving to 9,000rpm so my goal must be attainable.

still any input will be dearly valued so if u got something to say pipe up pplz!!.

cheers.joe.

cheers.joe.

 

[xctasy]

I agree with you. So long as you've got the rev range, then you'll get power.

For the amount of money you spend, I'd grab a machinist, and get him to rattle off one non stroker 3.91" crank, and overbore only a little. Get your custom rods and pistons off Ross or Scatt blanks, machined in Australia. (Heck, Denco in Christchurch import Ross blanks like a bakery buying flour). Then block rock the cast iron lump, and turbo the bleading head off it.

Pretty soon, BA guys will be wanting steel cranks. You could then be the agent for steelie hairpins for Bara blocks. Really, its only the difference is the integrated GM3800-style oil pump, not too hard to replicate. Get some investment capital, and let the wind blow!

Ford V8 guys can't compete, because after they've shelled out 5 large for an SVO block, twist wedge heads and twin turbos, there budget is, well, blown. Holden Geni III owners would have even a seasoned alloy block fretting within a few minutes. Your dollars do add up. If you break anything, you can get a garden variety part found on 500 000 plus OHC Falcons sold with 4.0's since 1993.

Power Calcs:
I work it out by taking the best modified cid*revs factor, divided by the flywheel power. Normally, a 243 cube six may rev to 5000 rpm, and give about 235 hp. This gives a factor of 5000 ([243*5000]/ 5000= 235). Modified AVESCO V-8s have a factor of about 3650 ([302*7500]/ 3650= 620 hp). So a cammed, optimised race Falcon AU 4.0 six could give about ([243*7500]/3650=500 hp) is 500 hp, without a turbo!

When you turbo it, you reduce the factor by the boost ratio. So your 32 pounds may be a 3.18 boost ratio, minus the heating factor which could be enough to lower that to about 2.0 times the normal boost of a normally aspirated six with 11:1 compression. So the 3650 factor becomes 1825 So ([243*7500]/1825= 999 hp). If you were to go to a 20% bigger engine, you get 20% more power. If you raise the boost to 43 psi, then perhaps you'd get close to 1200 hp from a 4.0 block.

My Pick (Having given it some more thought):-

Stick with the stock block. Hard fill, then shove in just a stock stroke custom crank. 3.91" stroke from a Jaguar XK blank machined from EN 16 steel. Use 6 to 6.2" Chevy/Ford-style NASCAR/AVESCO rods, but get them made in a metal that has great fatigue resistance, not alloy. You don't want to loose a block piston or crank. You want the head to split or the turbo to blow. Alloy rods take up more space, invalidating the ability to stroke the engine.

With a 28 thou over bore, no sleaves and a set of stock size 3.66" ( OHC Chevy 4200 size) pistons from Ross etc machined to your specs. Heck, JP would even do them. Use 6 to 6.2 " rods (needing easier to get 1.265 to 1.065" deck pistons).

I figure a turbo will give you all the power you need. If you can guarantee a safe rev range with a steel crank and aren't taking the block within an inch of its life, a 43 psi machine will shut down all else in its path.

 

[George]

Hi,

I cannot help in the technical department..You both have it covered!

You might already know this but Ridgecrest make custom rods and copper gaskets.
http://www.ridgecrest.com.au/

If you make 1200Hp out a a six....600Hp out of a 3cyl Diahatsu Charade would also be nice!!

Good work.