The Old Stromberg Carby

T

TeddyXY71

Well-known member
I have an old Stromberg BOV2 carby on my Falcon. To look at these carby's, they seem a little crude (single barrel downdraft) but really, how good bad or otherwise are they for what they were designed to do? Just interested in peoples opinion on the old Stromberg. I've heard many a varied opinion from "that bloody straw.." to "they're simple and effective for what they are".......so what do others think. Does the old Stromberg have any merits or is it a waste of time fiddling around with them?

Regards,

Teddy :)
 
For a standard daily driver its the only carb I would run.
I have one on an XT 221 that has never been touched/tampered with since new in 1969, and even after sitting for 10 years the carby gave no troubles and showed no signs of leaking or being out of tune or clogged when the engine was started.
They are so simple and reliable and match the asthmatic log so perfectly I dont know why anyone runs anything else.
My new buildup is using a 2V head but I'm keen to try a modified log head with tripple Strommies one day :lol:
 
Thanks for the reply nod069. I've always had a soft spot for the Stromberg. Like you I've have always thought the simplicity of them was the biggest thing going for them. I've actually been toying with the idea of dual Strombergs on the log head, I think it would look cool and help the log breath a little better. I also think that balancing and tuning dual carby's would be a tad easier than a triple set-up (though I'm more than happy to be told otherwise :lol: )

Regards,

Teddy :)
 
Lovely old things!

The best thing is the massive range of parts...the Stromberg came out in old Dodges, Destos, Plymouths and Chrysler I6's in the 50's, so it really is an old straw. That Holden would run that same carb until 1980 VB Commodores and still pass the ADR emissions regs says a lot for it.

The twin Stromberg set-ups work ok as long as the 179 X2 style settings are used. The problem is that wereas Holleys use a power valve that pops open under low vaccum, the Stromberg uses a set point, and varies the size of the restrictions. So you've got to look through the old Holden L6 red motor(ie 179 X2) and Ford I6 books and see what varied. If you use two carbs, you'll need to address the huge amount of petrol that comes on stream when using two stock Strombergs. My next door neighbour had a 179 HD with X2 maifold and header, but two stock 179 carbs, and it was into the low teens for fuel consumption.


Just remember the 15 degree (or whatever) slew on the cast iron bolt patterns between Holden and Fords. The 250 was the biggest, the early XR's ran an anti surge baffle for the float chamber, and Holdens make ideal donars for spare parts! :wink:
 
My reasoning with going tripples over the twin setup is I think it would be easier to tune (maybe?). I was thinking you can run the centre carb as your primary carb for normal driving where you would only use part throttle and have the outside carbs setup with a progressive linkage so they only open when you use more than half throttle or more. I was thinking this way if they weren't perfectly syncronised, or if they didnt flow the same the engine would be more forgiving as its already revving at 3000+ when the secondarys kick in.
I imagine with the twin setup, your going to need both carbs to be balanced as they would both need to be supplying fuel and air at all rpm.

Thanks for your input on the Holden Strommies Xctasy, now I know where to find the bits to give this a go!
 
The log head is actually very good when modified for three carbs. All the design compromises of the log head are cancelled out by the 3-bbl kits. The three types of Offenhauser bolt on 3-bbl intakes are still available from Summit, and are very easy to set up. The centre carb is stock, and the two outers are auxilary ones.

The linkage is a bit of a leg buster...on the single carb at up to 60% throttle, the loads are light, and the car drives just like a stock log I6. When the outer barrels open, the engine gets very even and well organised fuel air to all six cylinders, with virtually no compound 90 degree bends that make the stock 144 /170 /188 /200 /221 /250 log heads such flow disasters. The accelerator loads then go up quite a lot past 60% throttle, to keep you out of using the circuit. I think its a brilliant system.

Quite a number of the US crowd use them, and are always very happy with the wide open throttle power, and also the part throttle economy and engine characteristics remain. If you get sick of it, and just want to cruise, the out carbs can be unhooked.

The US log heads use Holley 1908, 1946 and Autolite 1100/1101 carbs stock, and the Aussies only ever used Holley 1908s for the first two years before the Stromberg 1-bbl carbs from about 1963 to 1976 for log heads.

Example of US Holley glass bowls, Holley Weber carbs like on the Pinto engines...the options are huge! Look at Powerband, and his mates carb systems. Wow!

CARBSELECTIONSIDE.jpg


The Offenhauser kit is designed around Autolite or the prefered VW spac Weber INT. These have linkages which differ to the Stromberg, but not by much.

For the price, the US sourced Offy intake on an early 1962- to 1967 170 or 200 log head would be easy to do. The only negatives are the O ring seals, which are better replaced with muffler sealing compound or JB weld or epoxy morter.

After 1968, the 188/221/250 heads differed slightly to the US 200 and 250 log heads...not by much, but enough to make it hard to know what Offy intake will fit. In addition, the later US logs were constantly being upgraded, but the various Oz logs made from 68 to 76 were not the same as the US ones, and have a different shape. This is where the term early log and flat top log and D7 log got coined, so Offenhauser could sell the right kit. There is a small degree of limit work needed to fit them, but the kits are bolt on. And as for cool, there isn't a simpler performance carb upgrade system around, except maybee a 2V or Mikes Alloy head.
 
I want to know where the Strommies were made! My money's on Strasbourg. Whaddaya reckon, DS?

(Don't say "SIDNEY" :stick: )
 
TeddyXY71":1cx2j6wd said:
.......I also think that balancing and tuning dual carby's would be a tad easier than a triple set-up.....
Click to expand...

I think I stand corrected on the dual versus triple set-up. Maybe the triple, with progressive linkages would be easier to set-up and run.

Many thanks for the info xctasy. I always enjoy learning about these things and appreciate your input.

Regards,

Teddy :)
 
US Bendix bought out the US Stromberg patents, and Stromberg is an American company who had historically made carbs for Fords.

The earlier Ford V8 Stromberg 97 carbs were legends of simplicity. The BV 1-bbls were very simple too.

In Europe, Zenith and Stromberg co-opted the first Zenith~Stromberg CD 125 in 1966 for GM's Opel Division, for the Kadett and later the Vauxhall Viva. The Holden Torana XU1's and all emissions Leyland cars started running the CD150 and CD175's, and a brace of emission spec CDST's . Merceades used them in there MB 200/230/250 W123's, Volvo, Saab, Lotus, Jensen Healy and Jag in there non EFI cars, and they carried on for US spec Pommy cars up to California Air Regulatory Board blacklisted them in 1980. Last were made in 1996, for the last Daf V8 and Freight Rover and Land Rover 110's. They were made in Germany or England.

The Armed forces Land Rover 90's and 110's always replaced the CD 175's with Holley 390 carbs, because at least the Yank carbs worked!

The Bendix Stromberg BV sries is 100% American raided product used primarily in the Yank Mopar I6's. The 1958 recession must have hurt the company, becasue after 1960, Carter did the carb supply.

The Aussies then made in the BV's under licence from 1963 to 1980, and in the XC /XD falcons from 1976 to 1981, it was used as an extensively updated Ford only Bendix 1-bbl which looked kind of like the Carter RGS or YL Carter.

The 2-Bbbl WW was used in Leyland P76's and Holden Torana 161S/ Monaro 186S and common 253'S, the 170 hp Falcon 2V's and 240 hp 72 to 76 302 C V8's. It was also a raided Mopar product in a similar manner. The last was made in the 1980 VB Commodore 4.2, after a 14 year span from the first six cylinder Monaros. By this time, Chrysler was using licenced non electronic Emails (Carter carbs).


The carbs smallest use was the 1971-1976 130 Cube HQ Holden export engine to Malayasia, but it was common to see them on 2250 138 Holden Toranas. At its largest Aussie use was the 250 Falcon, but there were bigger versions in the Dodge I6 trucks. It has a huge range of throttle and venturi sizes, and they are a very sweet running piece if everything is to spec, you can custom make them, and get parts from Rare Spares with ease.
 
I maintain my position. :lol:

We had restrictive local content laws. We also had patternmakers who could spell. I firmly believe that the apparent misspelling on the side of every BV, BV-2, BOV and BXV was in fact reflecting their imported origin. A deliberate obfuscation.

As you mentioned, there were European factories cranking out equivalent quality die castings - some, I believe, even with imperial threads - so it wouldn't have been any big deal to make them for Australia as well. Most zinc-based alloy castings for all makes here carried the "CertiZinc" imprint - these carbs don't.

Now for a "Powerband" style BXV photo:

xaboresmlxf4.jpg
 
:roll: I say bouy, you been doing some research, huh?

Oh man, I don't know any thing no more Adam! Never say 'never' and 'always'. :wink:

The Sidney spelling on the B series Stromberg may have been like renaming a Burmese city Burmingham, so people buying would automatically think the products so stamped were from any fine upstanding (sic) Anglo Saxon town, not in Asia... :twisted:

Since the 1968 Local Australian Content laws, Holden played a game called 'complementation'. It's sort of a swap a crate process! If the local content was less than 85%, you were restricted in selling more than 7000 cars, and there was a quota restriction that kicked in in 1972, becasue Austrlai was scared that Malaysia and Japan were gonna out produce Holden, Ford and Chrysler cars.

I think the rule was 85% local content by labour and parts combined. So imported carbs would have been okay if they arrived in a box (from Strasbourg?).A percentage of true blue Aussie cobbers could then have screwed them together. The whole Opel 1900 engine used in the 1974 to 1978 Torana had an Opel gearbox made in Asia, and the local content was about 88% on it, yet it was 98% on the Torana 3300 auto.

The Holden Trimatic gearbox is actually a GM Strasbourg gearbox as used in Fiat 131 and 132s, Peugeot 504's, Opels, Vuaxhalls and our Holdens. It was however made in Australia for Holdens, yet fully imported from France via Germany for locally assembled 1975 to 1984 'Pugs'.

The Holden 'Opel' 4-speed was of course made in the Philipines using Asian labour from 1968 to 1981. (The fact that no-one has ever been able to make a proper 3 rd to 4 th gearchange in that gearbox was irrelevent becasue it was cheap!)


The Opel 1600 and 2000 cc Family II engines were made in Australia for Opel and Vauxhall by Holden and exported by the crate.

Oh, the BW 35 gearboxes in early 1969 to 1974 four cylinder Cortinas was not Australian made, it was from a Rootes (Hillman) factory in England.
 
Hey Addo, or xctasy (or anyone who cares to answer),
what's the main material used to fabricate these carbies. Addo mentioned a zinc-based alloy. Does anyone know exactly what the metal is made up from? Also (sort of related), what's the best cleaning technique for these carbs, is it good 'ol elbow grease and a toothbrush an petrol, or could you 'hot tank' some of the components in an alkali solution to help clean things up?

Teddy :)
 
Oven cleaner. Specifically, the one with Ethanolamine. "No Frills" is the brand I find best.

Otherwise, paint stripper of the methylene chloride type works well, lacquer thinners or acetone at 100PSI and all benefit from a gentle scrape first to remove most of the solid gunk. Citri-Strip and lemon oil cleaners should be OK too.

Avoid overly caustic stuff and overly acid stuff - either will prompt crystallising salts to appear in the porous metal. If the carb is completely apart and you don't have compressed air, a post-cleaning soak (say one day) in cool boiled water will help soak out any concentrations of acids or bases. Then rinse under scalding hot tapwater (if not mineral-rich) until the carb is too hot to touch. Shake/pat dry and it'll steam out all the cavities and passages by itself.

Too simple. :)
 
On a triple set up... Would your 2nd and 3rd carby work if the butterflies were set up with light springs. My thought was instead of using linkage to open up the carb to let them operate from vacum. I started thinking about this when I aquired an old set of zeneth carbs. The Zeneths didn't have a lever attached to the butterflies but they looked like they would open up automatically with vacum. These were supposedly removed from some industrial type equipment like large fork lifts or dozers. Found in the dregs of an industrial auction.
 
I'm not quite sure how that would work. I'm sure they would open fine just like a vac-secondary carb, but without some type of mechanical override how would you be able to shut the carbies off again.
 
What has been suggested is copying the standard 1968 to 1970 Six Pack 340/440 Plymouth/Dodge set-up, where two external dashpots are used to fully open carburettor 2 and 3. They were bascailly three 350 Holley carbs with a few basic alterations, including two 390-780 vac sec dashpots to open the carb proportionall to vacuum.

Bascially, its how a 4160 4-bbl vac sec carb is operated, but the seconday barrel is in this case two divorced carbs, and the primary is a 1-bbl, not a 2-bbl carb.

The mechanism for operation is defined in most vac secondary schematic operation posts on the internet, or in any Holley carb book. You have to see it in a schematic sense, all the talking in the world won't let you see how simple it is to do. I'd say 50 bucks of parts, 8 hours labour, and then a few days sorting the spring and signal strength would have the system running.

An alternative way is to use the EF-BF dual resonance vacuum dashpots, and link it to the two outer carbs, with signal from a 1/8 BSP drilling into carb No 1, or a micro swtich. Both Six Pack V8 and EF-BF set-ups kick in at about 3800 under wide open throttle conditions.
 
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