Upcoming 223 build

[war-hog]

Let me start by saying I found your site a couple weeks ago, and have loved the info found so far. Nice to see people building these engines as opposed to swapping out for v-8s, etc.

I am in process of restoring my '55 Courier ( sedan delivery ). I am planning on keeping the stock 223 and backing it up with a t-5 from a fox mustang. It will be a daily cruiser and parts chaser. I prefer to use my old cars, and don't have much use for newer cars. I have been researching different mods for engine, off and on, for the last years. Cliffords has been suggested by more than a few for anything I-6, so I have mostly focused on them. I have read a few things on here about them, but not what I am currently looking at. My question is has anyone used their entire package for the 223? I have been talking back and forth with Larry there, and here is what we came up with so far:

6=8 intake and header combo with dual webers
custom cam grind by Cliffords
head decked, ported and full valve job by Cliffords
Chrome ring full rebuild kit for bottom end
Stock block just trued up, only bored if necessary

He claims numbers of around 285 hp / 400 torque ( if memory serves me right )

If this is true, price paid seems OK. Anyone have any experience with full jobs from them like this? I am not trying to discount their claims, just trying to confirm. I expect all of this to run between $4,000-5,000; which nowadays seems not so bad for a performance motor. Any input is appreciated.

 

[bubba22349]

I like your basic plan for the 55 Courier build, I am also a fan of the Sedan Deliverys and had a 1941 version for over 30 years. The 223 build also sounds well though out, I will make one recommendation that you mod a Ford 300 Dura Spark II distributor with a custom curve to fit into your 223. I haven't used that complete Clifford's parts package that you are asking about though I have used many of the different Clifford parts over the years and I like them. I grew up nearby the area were Jack Clifford's shop was originally located (it was different from Cliffords current location) he was a real master with the inline sixes along with Ak Miller & K Sisslel all of them were located in the nearby area. I have not had any direct experience with Larry but there have been a number of reported issues (on this site) with quality control of some their engine parts in the last severial years. One issue that comes to mind was a camshaft for a 300 Ford six were the bearing surfaces weren't finished to a very high polish which then quickly wore out the newly installed cam bearings. You might want post a general question about Clifford parts quality in the 240/300 six forum to see if someone there has some more resent or accurate knowledge about Larry. Good luck on your 223 build

 

[war-hog]

Thanks for the input. I will definitely be looking into the DSII distributor. Years ago I did a 4.2 in a Jeep rock crawler project, and I was able to get a new distributor with a built in GM HEI cap (less than $100 ), that was awesome. Wish they had them for these. I will throw something at the 300 guys and see what they say. I am sure the Cliffords intake and exhaust stuff is OK. From what I have been reading on here, the reviews seem pretty good. Just a little concerned about the machine work, and having to send the head and cam to them. I have a great machine shop here, but have no idea what to tell them as far as the grind on cam, head porting, etc.

 

[bubba22349]

Yes for sure I would have all your machining and assembly work done in your locale area if you have a good shop there. I or someone else maybe able to consult with you on the cam, head work and engine kit parts. It could take a bit of time, but you would also need a very detailed list of all the parts you plan to use together i.e. the transmission model, rear Axel ratio, tire size, what type of driving use you plan for the Courier, any other goals or expectations too, etc. Yes the Clifford intake and exhaust system parts are great. They do make the cheap HEI distributors for the 300 sixes and you might be able to adapt one to fit a 223 I haven't done it so not sure about getting the right drive gear though. Personally I believe the DSII is a better distributor and if you want you can still use it to trigger one of the GM HEI moduals or an MSD box and many others. Good luck

 

[war-hog]

Thank You for all the help Bubba. You just confirmed what my gut was telling me. I think I will use Cliffords for the Intake, headers and dual webers. Everything else I will source elsewhere. Unfortunately, after a long talk with my pal at the machine shop, they don't regrind cams and are limited on porting experience with the 6 cyl. head. At least they are honest and let me know they aren't comfortable doing the porting. I will have to do some searching for the cam and head work. I believe there were some places mentioned on here, through my previous searches. Definitely will go with the DSII, seems to be heavily used for this purpose. Does anyone reputable sell the moded disco, with gears and recurve? The rest of the system should be easily attainable.

 

[bubba22349]

There's still Lots of places to get a good cam core reground in Ca. and some other areas of the country. There are two site members here that do custom distribor work and might be able to help you with the curve part and maybe do the mods to fit the 223. If you search through the old 223 posts here most of the mods that needed be done to adapt a 300 DSII can be found. There are several good places (Ca., Michigan that would probably do a pro type porting job for a price) so depending on your location their might be one that's near your area.

The stock valves sizes can work ok depending on how far from stock you go with the cam, then you may want to go bigger like around 1.9 on intakes and 1.5 to 1.6 on exhaust roughly an 80% to 85% ratio difference works good. For a decent street type porting job it's not really that hard to get good results you won't match what a pro can do using a flow bench but many improvements can be made by the home porter that takes his time. If someone can do the ports on a typical brand X SB V8 (check online for porting videos) it's a lot like that. Most of the gains are in doing the valve bowls, tapering the valve guides, working on the short turn radius, etc. on the intake ports (if you have a good used intake gasket it will work as a guide) to use as a guide along with some machinists Blue Dycum to scribe the port openings keep the opening slightly smaller then the used gasket (crushed) opening. You will want to concentrate on matching them at the opening then (funneling them) an inch or so further into the port to each other in total volume concentrating most of the grinding work on the port sides and roof, don't remove much beyond a light clean up to the port floor, and don't go too smooth on the intake port polish. If you port the intake make it so it's exit opening is slightly smaller the the intake ports too. The exhaust port is done much like the intakes except here you can go to a highly polished finish, the same can be done with the combustion chamber to a polished finish, the port exit should be slightly smaller then your header opening and you can use the header gasket to scribe their openings Each Chamber first needs to be CC'ed and then matched working on the areas of valve shrouding too the intake and exhaust valves again if you have a good used head gasket (for the installed crushed size) and as above scribe head gasket opening around the chamber for a guide though as with intake and gasket matching you don't want to open up the chamber to that scribed gasket size try to match it to what your fished cylinder bore dia is going to be. The combustion chambers are a lot like the old Y Block V8's and respond well to same mods used on them, last you need a really good 3 angle valve job, and with blending down into the bowl area (or Serdie radius cut seats) and back cutting of the valves.

There were some of new Offy intakes 2 X 1V available not too long back and still might be. I bought one to use on my 1954 Customline with a pair of the glass bowl 1904 Holleys they look great and perform well for a street build.myou can still find these used too in Offy and the old Fenton brand in 2 X 1V and sometimes in the 3 X 1V's, Clifford in the single 4V's are also found used too then you can also use a 2V carb too. Good luck

 

[TKEBH964]

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/223-ford-hop-up.888819/

I don't know if you have seen this thread on the HAMB inliner's social group. There is a lot of 223 information. I believe someone mentions they got a cam regrind from Clay Smith.

 

[64-223]

Hey War-Hog,

Sounds like a fun build you have planned. I noticed you asked about the availability of a DSII distributor for the 223 - I've been machining some of these lately and have them for sale through eBay. If you'd like to check one out, there's a link in the "for sale" section of the forum. I make them with NOS gears, set the end play to factory specs, and provide a new oil pump driveshaft. I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have about the swap.

 

[war-hog]

Again, thanks. That was a mouthful. I would love to port myself, maybe I will try. Love to learn new tricks. Just need to find the time. Couple of questions on the porting. Should the port work be done before/after the valve job? Definitely would probably do larger valves, if it will increase flow. Also curious why not polishing intake side, turbulence?

 

[bubba22349]

It's depends on how careful you are when doing the valve bowl area, so for a first time at porting it's usually best before. You would want to do all the heavy porting work first to keep from nicking any of the seats on the fresh valve job, but you also need the bowl opened up too. Your machinist might have a tool (bowl hog) for that to get them opened up next to the seat size of valves you're planing on using. The reason for not going with a very smooth or polished surface in the intake ports is that the fuel droplets have a tendency to drop out of suspendtion (the automized fuel). Porting is slow and dirty work but it's also very rewarding and low cost if you can do it your self. Good luck

 

[Daves55Courier]

The 223 is basically a good engine. I think you got the right idea looking at the 300 big block six distributor with DSII module. I wanted to go with a 240 distributor and just convert with a pertronix ignitor. The only other modifications needed to make it work are drilling out the old 223 12-tooth gear and making a 1/4 to 5/16 hex drive shaft. Would be much less costly than the 300 conversion. But you can't find a used or rebuilt 240 dizzy anywhere. Its like they all fell off the face of the earth.

 

[war-hog]

Well I am working on a deal for an Offy 2 x 1 intake and valve cover, New. Nice old school stuff. Talked to Ron Iskaderian today, and sounds like they got me covered for a $135 returns. .254 dur. .425 lift. 210° dur. Are the Patriot header decent, or should I stick with Clifford?

 

[war-hog]

Spell check sucks!!!!!! $135 regrind.

 

[unibody madness]

I can not speak to your particular build, but I had some serious fitment issues between the patriot long tube headers on my 61 f100 and the front cross member.
I can tell you that the Cliffford exhaust is much thicker and better built in my opinion,but you get what you pay for.

 

[war-hog]

I have decided to stick with the full Clifford set-up, as of now. If this body takes much longer, I will probably change my mind ten times again. Dual Weber intake, exhaust, etc. In researching different option, I have come up with the 2 final concerns.

1. Is there any reason to be concerned about the strength of bottom end, when at least doubling torque. 4 mains


2. Is the oiling system something to worry about, or is it only an issue with worn out components? I fully intend to replace or recondition entire valvetrain.

 

[tom954x4]

War-Hog, you might try looking at the build that "Colonel Flashman" did on his 223 Ford, and I think most of that information is on the Ford Truck Enthusiasts site. There are one or more threads on the build and all the goodies he added and things he did to the motor. His has got to be one of the more complete and well documented builds of a 223 in recent history.