What should I do?

[djz66]

Hello everyone!
Well let me start by saying thank you to who ever made up this site!
I have a 66 mustang with a sprint 200 that I have had since my senior yr. in high school. It's been sitting for the past 8 yrs., I know it's horrible! I finally got the time to work on it so I can drive again...

So, everyone I know keeps trying to talk me into going with a 289 or 302 and I just don't want to do it, I want to keep the 200 but give it more power and of course make it look nice at the sametime.

I want more power but it will won't be on a track it will stay on the street so, would any of you guys give me some ideals on what I should do?
Do any of you know how much to get my head redone by Classic inline? I know they sell some nice heads but it cost a big chunck change!

Thanks,
Dj

 

[rholum]

The big limitation on the 200 six is the crappy cylinder head and the only way to get around it is to use forced induction. If I where you I would save up for the aluminum head and intake from Classic Inlines. I went the other route and used a turbocharger but it is a lot of work. You would also want to get a cam with more lift and duration with the aluminum head.

 

[djz66]

I was just wondering if there was another way to go... Do you know if Cl has any package deals for the head and intake? Do you know maybe which head,cam and ops. I would want to get? I want more power for sure just not going to be racing...

Dj

 

[CobraSix]

Congrats on resisting the urge to drop in a bent 8. I love my 6, have the power of a stock 289 HiPo, and completely streetable getting about 25 MPG mixed driving mileage. I have my cake and can eat it too.

Plus, when I pop the hood at show and shine events, I've even drawn people from pristine Shelby GT 500s. Everyone's seen built V-8...so few have seen built 6's.

Mike's (Classic Inline's) heads are great upgrades for street driven cars. If you contact him, he probably has come great ideas for cam/head combinations that will work for your driving style. You can also look for the older Australian 250 2V heads like mine which are very similar, but still cast iron with a detachable intake manifold. They can be a little cheaper but they are a bit rare in the states and importing one can run about the same price as a new head from Mike.

For Cams, I wouldn't recommend anything much more radical then a 264 came. I'm running a 260H cam from Comp Cams and it is great for street driving. It's almost the same duration as a stock cam, but with 30% more valve lift which really helps engine performance. I ran that came with just a log head with a T5 transmission and I was very impressed with the performance increase just with those mods (and an electronic ignition).

Also, a quick and cheap path to more power is running a turbo to the log head. Several around here have done that for a fraction of the cost of a new aluminum head and intake and still saw major power gains. But i'll leave that to those that have done it. I'm not an expert on that.

Again, welcome to the sixness (pronounced Sickness).

 

[Vin Man]

Welcome. A great idea - keeping that engine. I started out same as you - take a look at my thread. http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=50725

One thing you will want to do first off is the The Falcon Six Performance Handbook from ClassicInlines.

When I started my project, I had already decided to go with the Aussie (OZ) head. However, if I didn't have one already, I would have went the ClassicInlines route.

Where are you located?

 

[rbohm]

8) the first question you should ask yourself is how much of the work you can do. if you can put then engine together but need the machine work farmed out, then you can save a lot of money. if you can do some of your own machine work, like porting the head, you can save even more money. if you cant do the machine work on the head, you will likely find that the cost of modifying the log head, and the cost of buying the CI aluminum head are going to be very close. one more thing to consider, if you buy the aluminum head you will get far better performance out of the box than with a modded log head. which means you dont need as much cam, compression, and other things that make a street engine hard to live with when mismatched components are used to make power.

 

[GrantD]

Hello everyone!
Do any of you know how much to get my head redone by Classic inline? I know they sell some nice heads but it cost a big chunck change!

Classic Inlines isn't really a machine/assembly shop it is just one guy ( the owner of this site who you previously thanked his name is mike and goes by azcoupe on here.) He does hire out some work which has lead to many parts being produced that simply were not available, like that beautiful aluminum head you saw on the homepage.

I see where you're coming from with some of the sticker shock that comes from seeing prices on some of those parts. I'm kind of the same boat trying to figure out what direction I want to take my project. Significant machine work on your current can add up pretty fast and it's not too tough to start getting into the range of that other head. But after all that cash you sunk into that head you'll still not have anywhere close to the performance that can be had out of that new head, and you're not anywhere closer to actually owning it.

One thing that helps tame some of the sticker shock too is to look and see what the actual price is going to be to find an engine and do the swap. There are a lot of little things that should be/need to be changed when doing a v8 swap. Mounts, driveshaft, trans, Possibly a k-member (not sure what the early mustangs did here), suspension/springs... the list goes on, and that all needs to pretty much happen at once. The current motor can be somwhat incrementally upgraded leaving your car in use while you're getting your cash together.

A lot of guys have had a lot of fun doing small things here and there that just make the car more fun to drive. Things like better suspension, bigger brakes, different carb, different cam. Some of these things can go with you if you change your mind too.

The big question is though, what is your level of mechanical aptitude, and what do you hope to see out of the car performance wise.

I like I6's too, but I also understand their limitations. If you're looking for big power it's going to be cheaper and easier to get it from a v8, but if you just want to drive your car and do something a little different, you're in great company.

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Back DJ and all:

Did you get your car going yet? Is it runnable as it is? If it is, start by assessing what condition the whole engine is in and what you have. If it is a stock '66 200, you will have an Autolite 1100 carb matched to a Load-O-Matic distributor. You could upgrade these parts, but know that they are designed to work together. Change one and the other does not work as designed. You could plan some upgrades that would compliment the addition of one of AzMike's alloy heads.

But, if the engine- meaning pistons and rings/blow-by, bearings, oil pressure, timing chain and cam wear- is not it great shape, spending the $$$$ for a top-of-the-line head will be like putting a tuxedo on a gomer. It would look cool on the outside, but never run like a champ.

Your question was "would any of you guys give me some ideals on what I should do?" My suggestion is to read more and then carefully plan, including a realistic budget and a timeline. Question like- What do I want when I'm done? How much can I spend? How much time do I have? How much can I do myself? Knowing that you could have a stock appearing sleeper, a mild resto mod, or a high end techno rod when you're finished. If you truely do want a streetable driver that is possible in any scenerio- just plan accordingly.

Oh, and welcome to the adventure.

Adios, David

 

[mach1 mark]

Welcome to the club. First get the Falcon Handbook, Even with the mustang the handbook is more about the engine than the car. Read the book a couple of times, get a strategy and then go for it: a little at a time or a lot at once.

One suggestion would be not to put a lot of money into the stock head, maybe a carb adapter with a big 2v or go for the autolite 4v, and DUI ignition will work with the stock engine. With these upgrades first then you can go for a turbo or an Aussie head or the aluminium head would be my choice. At least you can still use the carb and the DUI with the big upgrades.

 

[djz66]

Thanks to all of you! I'm located in Chico,Ca (Nor Cali) it's about 86 miles north of Sacramento.
I want to keep my I6 without question and it is a stock engine right now. I don't want to totally deck it out with power so I see it as a mild resto. and don"t want it to look stock either. I want to pop the hood and see it has some nice up-grades... I want to be able to drive it around and shock people when they realize it's a I6 !

I can take the engine and tranny out but have no experience with machine work and don't know how to do it and would love to put it together... The car does run but I am having blow-by up top and I know without question need either a new head or rebuild mine.I don't want to put the money in my head if I am going to end up buying a Cl anyways... I have time to work on it but, don't want it to take forever to do it... In other words I can't wait to get it up and going so I can drive it around. I hope I have answered all your questions...

Dj

 

[djz66]

So I forgot to ask you guys whats the difference between the Ausi 250 head and the Cl? Which is better, are they pretty much the same?

Dj

 

[Vin Man]

So I forgot to ask you guys whats the difference between the Ausi 250 head and the Cl? Which is better, are they pretty much the same?

Dj

I honestly don't have any facts here, but I suspect the CI head will give better performance by design. It was designed to be an upgrade over the OZ head.

I have a OZ head, because I was able to get one from a friend for an affordable price. However, they are not easy to come by. In fact, Mike from CI just listed one on eBay today.

I am very pleased with the performance I am getting from my OZ head, and CI cam - along with all the other upgrades/changes I've made. When you hear my car you certainly don't think it is an inline 6. And popping the hood is often a suprise to many mustang fans!

 

[wallaka]

The CI head has better port and combustion chamber design so it flows better (supports more horsepower), is cast in aluminum, and is brand new. That is the main difference. And the price to recondition a 250-2V Aussie head after getting it shipped over here is not much less than going ahead and buying a new CI head.

 

[early ford fan]

if you decide to not buy the aluminum or ozzy head.the late seventies heads have bigger ports and maybe bigger valves than your head.plus hardened valve seats

 

[djz66]

I actually found and am watching the head on ebay,thats why I was asking what the difference is on them. I guess I should try and contact Mike and see what all he says on the prices and everything...

Dj

 

[DupleDreux]

Hi Dj Great that you're keeping the six. Properly set up its a great combination of performance and economy. I was in exactly your situation about three years agoand one of the first things I did was get the falcon six performance book. It has staged performance upgrades, and I basically followed that program. I'm not a great mechanic, but its been a terrific learning experience!

The huge mistake I made was not realizing my radiator was clogged. I just thought it ran a little hot. These engines don't run hot, they run really cool. When I finally had the radiator rebuilt with a three row at a local shop, it only cost about $165 with a full engine flush, and it ran unbelievably cooler. But the damage had already been done, I cracked a head with $1000 worth of work from Blairs in Pasadena, And cracked my block at the left rear head bolt which worked its way around to No. 6. So if its not running real cool, thats first priority!

Next you may want to consider being pretty conservative.

If you have blow by and you're sure its the head, why not just get a good three angle valve job, and have them mill the head about 30-60 thousandths. That will take care of the difference between modern gaskets (I like Corteco) and the stock steel shim one. If you or the shop suspect overheating, you may want to get it tanked and magnafluxed. If you have to get it welded up (not that I recommend that) you may want to consider a $16 port divider (mine was $100 to fit and install - welding to cast iron, not for amateurs)

Then give it a thorough tune up including a carb kit in the 1100, buy 12 new spark plugs and index them and a new load o matic dizzy and wires. The stock parts aren't that expensive.

Its really important to get comfortable with tuning your particular car, mine definitely had a personality between the timing and the carb. It took me a couple of months to sort out the vacuum issues, but I'm not any where near as skilled as some of the members here.

Just Milling the head made a big difference in my engine, the recovery of compression from about 7-1 to about 9-1 with a .060 mill and a good tune up made my baby a joy to drive (and addicted my to hours of tinkering and further upgrades).

Just some thoughts

Mark

 

[Falcon Ranch]

All I did with mine was up grade the head with a bigger log, added new guides and springs, seats and valves...pressure test and a quick shave...I also use a 260H cam and 1.6 roller rockers...other then that the block is bone stock.

The basic mods to better performance is make the engine breath better...the cam is the true key along with a good carb and free flowing exhaust...but the cam is the key here...with more lift you move more air faster and also raise the roof on the top end power curve.

I did also install a Holley 350 2bbl carb...if you can at least do a basic rebuild and add the cam...then you will have a good foundation to build onto...it will be cheaper to start off this way and get you back on the road.

Then add the header...then the rocker arms...redo the exhaust system, and last but not least, up grade to a 2bbl carb...I can guarantee that it will be money well spent...(they don't have to be in that particular order)

Over all I am very happy and can very easily see that I am pushing 200-225hp with no turbo...with the mods I have done, I now I am at least getting 2hp per cubic inch...the truck responds very quickly and feels like a strong V8 and with a C4 and a shift kit, will burn tires from a standing start and chirp 2nd gear no problem...in fact if I don't back off the throttle a little it will chirp every time...2nd gear kicks in pretty hard.

'61 Ranchero, 200 w/.60 bore, '69 truck head w/bean shaped chambers, Clifford header w/duel outlet, 1.6 roller rockers, chrome-molly push rods, Pertronix points replacement, Holley 350cfm w/trans-adapt carb adapter.

Once the basic foundation is done, just take it one step at a time.

 

[rommaster2]

Definetly don't overlook a great ignition system either a DUI swap or a DS2 swap are great. I use a DS2 triggered by an MSD box and I must say that combined with the 2 barrel upgrade (through an adaptor for now) made quite a difference in driveability. My biggest regret is sticking with a stock cam.

 

[djz66]

Yeah I want to do a Dui or something. There are so many things I want to get and do to it that it's driving me nuts! I guess I just need to start somewhere and go from there.

 

[CobraSix]

DJ,

Here is a comparison of the Aussie versus CI heads.

http://www.classicinlines.com/AlumSpecs.asp

Many of us who have the Aussie heads installed them before Mike had the Aluminum heads to offer. Had they been around when I did the upgrade, I would have done the AL head.

I'd start simple as thinking of the whole project can be overwhelming. Plus, you'll change your mind about 20 times along the way.

Simple things first:
1) Ensure properly working cooling system
2) Ignition upgrade. DUI, Duraspark II, Pertronix I or II...anything.
3) Ensure good brakes!