XE 4.1 in boat

  • Thread starter Thread starter Anonymous
  • Start date Start date
A

Anonymous

Guest
Gidday, I have a 4.1 falcon in a jet boat. goes bloody well, lots of torque low down but wot is 4000rpm. I have bought a redline manifold and holley 500 to re kit and try on it and see if I get any more revs out of it. Has anybody tried this combo that could give me advice as to set up with jets etc. Also the valve springs on my engine are painted bright yellow. My local mechanic tells me they are after market but said there is no way of telling what brand, does anyone know anything about this?
 
Welcome. Great mods, Hoki. Those are very good options. The reason it won't rev is likely to be the stock 256 degree cam.

The rev range of the 4.1 is limited by its stock camshaft profile and that is there bacause of the poor strength of the valve gear. It has small intake ports, and one of the best cylinder heads for low end torque that money can buy.

It is limited by the weight of the pushrods and valve gear, and the tendancy for certain parts to pull out under load. Like the rocker studs which bolt the rockers to the head.

First step, do this>

Dismantle valve springs and seals using the compressed air process following full saftey precoations. See if the yellow valve springs test up to the minimum requirements for seat and wide open nose pressure. Take them to a mechanic. See what the rise of the lifter is in the block with a dial gauge when the cam is moved from zero to full lift. If its over 6.5 mms on the dial, then its got a higher lift cam already. But it won't .It'll be a stock 6.3 mm lift item fo sure. Someones just put killer valve spings on it which are more than likely too stiff for the stock cam. The idea is to use just enough spring tension to stop valve float and lifter pump up.


There are two options with the cam. The stock Crow grinds allow an XF 4.1 EFI style 264 degree cam profile to be made, which allows all the stock valve gear to be used. These have the eccentric on them which allow a fuel pump to be driven, the 4.1 XF EFI doesn't have one. That is fine for 165 net flywheel hp without headers, just like the stock XF EFI.

Next step up is to fit a 280 degree cam with about 470 to 490 thou lift, with about 215 degrees duration at 50 thou lift. Well over 195 net flywheel ponies with that cam wih nothing but a good carb and exhast. There is plenty of power hiding in there.


Crow cams or Kelfords can sort the right kind of cam out. Do yourself a favour and get either new or reground lifters, new cam with the right cam 525 thou distributor drive, check the pushrods, get new rocker balls (called Sled Fulcrums), buy the common and good good Isky big Block Chev retainers (same parts as the 351c, 429's and 454's ran), get the good valves, rework the keepers by shaving each of the 24 collets 40 thou so the multi grove valves are locked solid and don't allow the valve to spin. Then go for a new replacement timing chain and drive set.

Set asside some beer money for a Permaset head gasket, 14 new Cleveland head studs, and a light shave of the head will be all you need to look at if the block and pistons are fine.

The 4.1 won't ever rev to 6000 rpm like an AU or BA 4.0 will unless you fit longer rods, and Phase 3 Falcon valve gear. Stock rod bolts are like plastercine, and need to be biffed and replaced to go over 5000 rpm. A stocker will handle 4800 rpm repeatedly.

The real saving on these engines is the reduced cost of ownership on a OHC engine. No EFI or ignition hassles, no problems matching aftermarket cams to 1.8:1 or 2.0:1 rockers, or the expense of the trick conical springs. No issues with head cracks or substandard head bolts . It's impossible to kill the Honda alloy head casting, the XE engine has nicer heads and doesn't have a heap of ignition advance. The rest of the engine can hack a heap of punishment.

Due to piston ring changes, high swirl heads, and an aggressive spark advance curve, the XF's were detonation prone and 4.1's wouldn't go over 4500 rpm, so stick with your engine.
 
thanks for the info x-taxi :) . Does this mean the manifold and carby wont make any difference without the bigger cam.

I found some history on the engine. It was bought new from Hutchisons ford in Christchurch and fitted new in the boat in 1986. I also spoke to a rep from Hamilton marine who fitted the first of the falcon motors to jet boats. He told me they found pushrods were bending regularly and that Ford acknowledged they were very 'light'. After that they fitted stronger pushrods as standard in their boat engines. Even though my boat is not a Hamilton I suspect it may have had stronger pushrods fitted and stronger springs to prevent valve bounce. I agree it will be a standard cam. No matter what I do, coupled to a three stage jet unit, the best I could ever hope for is 4500rpm as the power requirements increase exponentially with revs. A standard(modern) 350 chev will only pull 4500.

The engine has now done over 440hr at an average of probably 3500rpm, starts first time and is as smooth as silk. I had a drive of a boat the same as mine with a 4.1 with cam and flat top pistons and triple weber side drought which kicks the butt of 350 chev powered boats. Weight is a huge factor in boats.

I have already spoken to Kelfords about a cam but their price tag of $NZ840 for 264 cam, improver dist gear, h/d spring ret/lock kit, lifters and chain set put me off a bit as I can get a rebuild package with choice of cam for $AU680 from KB engine parts in Oz. I might price a crow cam to compare.

Cheers
[/img]
 
Dunno how close to trade you can get but a Crow billet grind is retailing close to $300 Oz, the Rollmaster timing set now about $120. That's NZD$450-odd for two parts alone.
 
Gidday Hoki , you can get 250 billett cams from APPCO auto parts ,or at least you used to when i was there .These billets are the same as what crow use .I had a custom done with one of these billetts then changed to a crow cam ,they both have the same castings on the cam .Part number used to be #cs250semi .Ive got JP timing sets up here in Auckland .PM me if you need one.

Dave
 
I phoned APPCO and it has apparently been bought out by REPCO and no longer deals in cams. I am off to Brisbane tomorrow so may have a look around some stores/wreckers. Other than that I think I'll will stick to sorting the carb and manifold out first. I need to get it dipped and then kit it. I don't want to be without a boat for summer so any cam change will have to be next year. Plenty of time to find some good deals :)

Why shave the collets to prevent the valve turning? I thought this was a good thig.
 
One other question. Does the XE fuel pump supply enough pressure for the Holley and are any modifications required to fuel lines i.e larger diameter.
 
The XE carby pump has a bleed back line on top of the pump to bring pressure down to 3.5 psi. Underneath, its 1971 to 1982 Ford. Any earlier XA to XD fuel pump will put out 5 to 6 psi of pressure, and fuel up to 250 hp without problems.

Enjoy Brissy. Great place with laid back, funny people. More people in it than in the whole of NZ!
 
Hi Hoki

I run a Hammy Jet 753 and a Non Cross Flow 4.1 Falcon motor. If you want advice on setting up your boat then the best place to go is

http://www.nzjetboating.com/yabbse/index.php#3

There's a few guys running 4.1's and jets there. (JR is the man you want to talk to)

I run at 3100 WOT throttle ,but then I'm running a 3 stage so I really need to use the torque of the motor more than the HP. I have been considering changing my jet unit cause I'm revving out of the good torque of the motor.

Regards

Rob
 
bolt the 500 and manifold on and you will gain aprox 500rpm up top, if your springs are ok.
set the 500 with a 25" squirter , 69-71 main jets, and a 6.5 power valve.
if it has a small stumble off idle check that your idle screw is not too far in or go to a 28" squirter. any std fuel pump in good condition will do fine, as holley fuel bowels hold a lot of juice.
after all that has been said on this subject, you wont be disapointed. x-flows can take more cfm than people think, even with stock cams..cheers
 
Back
Top