Yet another 1100 that won't idle

[Anonymous]

Hi everyone,

I have an 1100 on a 200 (68 Falcon) that quit idling a couple of weeks ago. I've taught myself a crash course in 1 barrel carbs in general and the 1100 specifically, and I'm starting to get some idea of what's going on. But I'd still like some input.

Before I post photos and go into complicated details, I have a general 1100 question: when I unscrew the main jet (which is a 69 I believe) I find a brass tube with one end open and about 6 pinholes in it. The open end faces up and inside, at the bottom, resides a little barrel shaped weight, with an 89 stamped on it.

The diagrams online and in the rebuild kit don't mention it, and I haven't seen anybody here mention this. My theory is that this sits on the jet and when the engine is cranked vacuum sucks it "up" allowing fuel to be sucked from the bowl through the jet around the base of the brass tube and up into the venturi. Can anybody shed some more light on this for me?

 

[fordconvert]

From the 66 shop manual:

Fuel entering the main jet, located at the bottom of the main well, flows up toward the main nozzle. A main well tube is inserted within the main well. Air from the high speed bleed channel enters the main well tube through a calibrated restriction at the top of the tube. The air passes through holes spaced along the tube, mixing with the fuel flowing up the main well. The fuel and air mixture being lighter than solid fuel, responds faster to changes in venturi pressures. The mixture continues flowing up the main well to the anti-syphon bleed. More air is introduced at the anti-syphon bleed to the fuel and air mixture which is then discharged from the main nozzle. The fuel is mixed with the filterd air moving past and through the boost venturi. The anti-syphon bleed also acts as a vent to prevent syphoning of fuel at low engine speeds.


It could also be the power valve is stuck open or there is a problem with the idle bleed.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the input - I really appreciate it. Unfortunately, this poses more questions than it answers, as I think someone has played around with this carb before I got it, so I'm going to chew on this for a while so I can ask more intelligent questions in the future.

Thanks again

 

[powerband]

They say Carburetor is French for : "DON"T F%^$ WIth IT..." Working on one carb can be a frustrating experience. I recommend getting parts carbs and whatever you can turn up and swapping internals.
Case in point:

I have two 5200 Holley Weber 2 Bbl's. One I bought "rebuilt" and never lost the stumble at mid throttle wether I jetted up - down - or sideways... The other worked perfectly after paying a lowball e-bid,,, I can swap the same parts into the stumble carb and it's worse..., the "good" one doesn't care wht jets I run - it just fouls plugs after making my eyes water.
And the Holley 1904's I'm trying to run on the Clifford 250 are worse yet. Some won't idle period..., swap all important pieces from a good running carb - Nope still won't idle consistently. I have a YF - runs great occasionally won't idle , no worn shafts, no vac leaks - just THAT carb.

Sorry turned into bitter rant

Powerband

Powerband

 

[ludwig]

Get a Pony Carb 1100. Follow their instructions. If you have questions call them. If it doesn't work send it back for a swap. They will give you $100 credit for the core of your iffy one.

Little expensive, no problems as far as I'm concerned.

 

[fordconvert]

I dont remember anything coming out when I took the jet out of any of mine but it was a while ago so maybe I just cleaned it and put it back in. If I remember I will pull my 1100 junk box off the shelf and have a look, I think I have 2 or 3 in there that at least have the tops off.

My 66 Ford Comet,Falcon,Fairlane, and Mustang Shop Manual has 7 pages that are 1/2 picture and 1/2 text on the 1100 that show nice cutaway views with arrows of flows for the various aspects of the carb. Then there are several more pages on how to tune and work on them. If you have one that has been messed with it may be the only way to learn enough to have a shot at figgerin out what is missing or modified.

 

[ludwig]

If you have one that has been messed with it may be the only way to learn enough to have a shot at figgerin out what is missing or modified.

I got a new Pony 1100 and kept the bad one. I spent maybe an hour or two fooling with it to figure out what goes where and such. Well worth the time.

 

[Anonymous]

Here's a little more backstory: we bought a semi-restored 68 Falcon from a little old man's widow a couple years ago with an 1100 on a 200. I assumed that everything was stock, and it ran well for 2 years. We used it as a third car - a couple vacations, running to the store, that sort of thing. It never sat for more than a week or two.

One day about a month ago it quit while I was running errands. It would die with a hiss at idle after initially firing, but if I feathered the pedal like a maniac I could at least keep it running. I got it home (2 miles) and spent a couple of weeks eliminating things like fuel supply (plenty of fuel), cleaned the bowl, checked points, etc.

Saturday I got a rebuild kit which was pretty sparse - a couple gaskets, a couple ball bearings, a couple accel diapraghams, a new spark control valve. It seemed pretty easy to rebuild, and when I put it back on it still wouldn't idle but would run at 2500 or 3000 rpm if I kept my foot on the pedal (no need to feather).

I fiddled with some adjustments, probably making things worse, but after wasting the entire day Saturday I got frustrated. (continued in another post)

 

[ludwig]

Did you check to see if contamination had clogged or blocked the fuel inlet in the tank? If it runs for a while and conks and then runs fine after sitting a moment, or runs fine at low speed then conks or staggers at high speed, it is a fuel delivery problem.

Sounds to me like a blockage. Which makes sense because if it sat for a long time, then you started driving - meaning filling the tank and sloshing it around - you probably stirred up something back there. Water sinks in gas and it will rust out the lowest parts of the tank.

You need a clear, inline filter in addition to the one on the carb to see if there is some contamination coming through. And you might see about getting your fuel tank cleaned out, just to make sure.

Also, the diaphragm of your fuel pump might be gone too if it is as old as the rest of the car.

 

[Anonymous]

(continued)

With the help of the Pony website, a nice guy at Pony, reading old posts at this website and talking to the guys at the local Mustang/Camaro shop, I'm starting to feel up to speed. Still with more questions than answers, though.

I agree that it seems to be a fuel delivery problem. The hiss as it dies makes me and some others think of vacuum problems, but there are only a couple of vac lines. One goes from the carb to the dist, another goes from the carb to the manifold. That's about it for vac lines.

I also agree that it seems to be a blockage. Thanks to your tips about the innards of an 1100 I have more of an idea of what is supposed to happen in a functional carb. I blew tons of compressed air and aerosol carb cleaner through every little hole and port that I could find when I was rebuilding it on Sat afternoon. I plan to take it off again and poke a kittycat whisker or small wire through some of the other holes as far as I can to see if that opens anything up.

I have a couple of questions about possible variations or deviations in my particular case:

1) I have two accel pump diaphragms, one on each side, that connect to linkage that lies underneath the carb itself. Standing in front of the car, the one on the right appears to shoot fuel when the throttle is pressed, but the one on the left (the one with the adjustable retaining screw in its center) doesn't move as far as I can tell. Also, most diagrams of 1100s that I've seen show that there's supposed to be a vent rod that connects to the right accel pump diaphragm and runs up and over the front top of the carb. Mine is missing and the hole in the left/center front of the carb has been plugged with a metal plug. Can anyone tell me why this is? Is the carb not the original one? Even though this has been like this for 2 years, can this impede performance somehow?

2) According to the websites and diagrams, there are only two adjustment screws - the idle mix in the passenger front and the idle speed in the driver rear. I can see the idle mix no problem - I've been backing it in and out to no avail. In desperation, I've got it as far out as it can be and still barely screwed into the slot, and there is a slight improvement: the car will idle for approximately 1.5 seconds before dying. Don't think I'm being sarcastic - that 1.5 seconds is a lot longer than it would idle before, and it confirms a couple things to me, such as the timing can't be too far off and that the fuel pump works, etc. My question is about finding the other screw. The only thing I can find that even resembles it is on the auto choke, but backing that in and out doesn't seem to change a thing. Am I supposed to believe that minute adjustments to the choke plate will change the idle speed up and down, or am I missing something here, too?

3) Finally, I would like to eliminate timing as an issue, but it's been 20 years since I timed a car in highschool shop class. Is it possible to time a car while it won't run steady, like by just cranking it?

Thanks again for all the input. The new Pony 1100s are coming out in late November, but this has become an obsession with me, and I want to figure it out before I just buy a new carb.

 

[ludwig]

I got no more answers, but for speed of delivery:

on the left side facing the car --> passenger side
on the right side facing the car --> driver side

This even works at a parts counter, so it has to be helpful.

If it's an 1100, the choke is adjusted by the black cap on the side. Three screws and a ring hold it tight. Loosen these, then turn clockwise to tighten the pulloff spring, counter clockwise to loosen it. Down underneath the choke pulloff shaft is the choke adjust.

I wonder if you have a choke problem. Pull the air cleaner off and try pinning the choke all the way open by turning the cap counter clockwise and see if it runs at all or better.

 

[fordconvert]

The pump on the pass side is just a dashpot to keep the throttle from slammin shut too fast when you take your foot off the pedal. It came on cars with auto transmissions. All it does is squirt gas from the bowl back into the bowl. I have run carbs both with and without that and it doesnt seem to make much differnce. Same thing with the vent rod on the top I have seen a couple that still had them. The carb I have run the most had a plastic one that was broken. I got creative and fixed it and ran it for a while but broke it again while doing something else. That was this spring and we have been driving the car with no issues with just a hole there. It been on the list to take a rod off another carb or plug the hole but I have not got around to it yet so I dont think either one of those is your problem. On my 1100's the idle screw has a range of about 1 1/2 turns that the engine will run in any more than that and it kills. If you close the idle screw all the way in does it change anything?

If you have not already tried it I would get a can of fresh gas and some fuel line and for a test hook it direct to the pump and try it on a known good source of gas. In the past I have wasted much time and money because of bad gas.

What is your ignition system?

 

[Anonymous]

When I bought my mustang off a guy out in Leesburg, VA, it sputtered and backfired like crazy on my test drive.

I was thinking maybe bad gas, as all else seemed okay.

When I got it home and took the carb apart to clean it up/rebuild it....lo and behold I find an old metal bottle cap stuck in the throat. It was carbon encrusted from the backfires so I didn't see it looking on there on first inspection.

Removed it and it ran great.

 

[ludwig]

Felix the Cat, the wonderful, wonderful cat.
Whenever he gets in a fix, he reaches into his bag of tricks.
You'll laugh so much your sides will ache,
Your heart will go pitty pat
Watching Felix the wonderful cat.