a generic alu (AZ/Summit/Jegs) 250 H2O pump

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chad
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a generic alu (AZ/Summit/Jegs) 250 H2O pump

Post #1 by chad » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:54 pm

Would the above if ordered 4 a '69 stang have a snout too long for an ele fan later?
Not sure there's any difference on my bronk & ur sedans/tudors. (May have 6 or 7 shives/pulleys).
Thank you~
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: a generic alu (AZ/Summit/Jegs) 250 H2O pump

Post #2 by xctasy » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:17 am

All 250's have the long water pump drive, 4-1/4", so your stuck no mater what you bu7y, they are all long pumps.


If you cant find the space, we could copy Mike1157's water pump blankoff, and make a short 4" water pump 3 bolt to 4 bolt adaptor.


You can see the spacer wher the H20 pump was....


Image


After 1978, so are all 200 engines, went to a long 250 style pump.

The overall length is controlled by the ancillary drive,


If you made a 3 to 4 bolt water pump adaptor, the early "short" 4" water pump from a 200 could fit, giving you an extra 1/4"


Looking at most Bronco's, there not a lot of space, so you'll have to track down the right size radiator and parts to make an electric fan work.

Image

There is Rick Wrenches short nose double pulley,

http://www.v8alfa.com/images-sounds/pulley.pdf

with a short nose non standard 144/170/200 water pump, you could create a shorter ancillary drive, and save a 1/4 inch, which might be just what you want.



Another option is to use an remote mounted stock water pump where an A/C unit wouls go.

Any where you see an A/C unit think "Remote remounted Stock Water Pump"

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... conversion

xctasy wrote:From http://www.rickwrench.com/index79.htm

"6-12-04 A/C Install"


The Sanden 508 is a 5 cylinder, 138 cc A/C pump that takes R134, and consumes 20 hp less at wide open throttle. Its a fraction of the 2 cylinder 210 cc York's weight. It can high mount in the stock York a/c pump position.

Image

Depending on engine mount and battery space with the Fox 3.3, you might be able to fit a low mount Sanden 508, but headers, the non EFI 1978-1983 battery position, and the forward mounted F150 4.9 six style engine mounts make it hard to package everything.

http://www.fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19664&p=548690#p548690

pikesan wrote:This is a pretty old post, but very pertinent to me!
I'm putting air conditioning on my 200 six. It's a must in AZ, especially if you want to drive it like I plan to.

I'm pretty sure the A/C and alternator bracket I have is like this one: http://www.alangrovecomponents.com/Six_Cylinder_Ford.html

Here's a picture Image

Maybe this will help someone?

I was about to re-align the bracket to align both grooves in the AC with the waterpump and crank pulley. Then I saw that picture. Does that look OK to you guys? (I don't have power steering) but I do have a Classic Inlines stainless header. I think someone slightly modified the alternator mounting to clear the header.

Feel free to follow along! http://www.myrideisme.com/Blog/tag/63-ford-falcon-project/
Thanks!
pikesan


Here's what it looks like in my build. Made some stand-offs to move the alternator away from the header. Came out pretty good! The longer belt needs to be about 1/2" shorter, but other than that, it's time to clean and paint.

Image

It looks like the alternator is still sitting on the header. It's just the angle. There's 4" between them.


Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: a generic alu (AZ/Summit/Jegs) 250 H2O pump

Post #3 by chad » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:21 am

Thanks for the thinner shive/pulley idea, X.
If my math's correct: 2.175 inch makes a 'thinner' profile.
I'd like to stay away frm a remote pump...
1 York will B there already as 'on board air" (compressor), a Pull Pal welder (supplied by a beefy alt.), a sno plow pump (seasonal only?), a power ster pump, and the other needed shives. I have a 3 groove HB, lots of oe bracketry & a current used custom 6 cyl power ster bracket (in use 30 yrs for the 170 that's getting retired).
I may need to start (re post?) another thread on design of a non-serp belt system for all these accessories. Some tell me I'll run into trouble wid da header flange as well...
:roll:

"...a 3 to 4 bolt water pump adaptor, the early "short" 4" water pump from a 200 could fit, giving you an extra 1/4"…"
that's 1 I can't picture. Is it in 1 of ur pic, X? In post #2?

Lastly, I believe some have swapped the radiator onto the frnt side of that L shaped mount frm the backside oe (hafta C if I find info documenting succesful conclusion). That would mean some 'fancy hoses' back to the motor (not 2 the heater core tho). A push rather than pull fan would B needed and the hood release mechanism might hafta go…
:shock:
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: a generic alu (AZ/Summit/Jegs) 250 H2O pump

Post #4 by xctasy » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:56 am

First go to

http://www.rickwrench.com/index79.htm


then click


"11-05-03
Custom H20 Pulley
+ H2O pumps, and dampers - explained! "


on the side bar which takes you to


Double Pulley


(huge chunk of missing info)


Image

The available H2O pumps for the 144/170/200 come in two lengths. The shorter of the two is usually on cars with the early damper and a larger diameter single groove H2O pump pulley (or the extremely rare early short double pulley). The longer pump is from later years and is used with a double or triple groove, slightly smaller diameter, H2O pulley. Just by looking at the dampers and H2O pulleys you wouldn't think there was enough difference to matter. As it turns out, the larger late damper is just big enough to interfere with most early H2O pump pulleys. If you are trying to install the early pump in an effort to save fan space with A/C, using a late damper, there will be issues.


Image

Using a "heavy duty" three core stock size radiator originally left me very little room for a fan, when using the long pump/pulley combo to run an A/C compressor. My fan choices that actually fit (barely) were the stock 4 blade or a cut down aluminum blade fan. Niether of which did the job when the A/C was on, although the cut down fan was the better of the two.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: a generic alu (AZ/Summit/Jegs) 250 H2O pump

Post #5 by chad » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:37 pm

i think i've seen the 1st pic here b4 & i have the 7 blade alu fan here (in same color!) already.

R U showing me the pumps to demonstrate how to convert a 3 bolt pump (144-200) to
a 250 (4 bolt)?

Thanks 4 stickin w/me!

(I'll visit Rick's site 2nite.)
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: a generic alu (AZ/Summit/Jegs) 250 H2O pump

Post #6 by xctasy » Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:44 am

chad wrote:i think i've seen the 1st pic here b4 & i have the 7 blade alu fan here (in same color!) already.

R U showing me the pumps to demonstrate how to convert a 3 bolt pump (144-200) to
a 250 (4 bolt)?

Thanks 4 stickin w/me!

(I'll visit Rick's site 2nite.)



Yes. Short non 250 pumps from the 200 can work with an adaptor!
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: a generic alu (AZ/Summit/Jegs) 250 H2O pump

Post #7 by chad » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:26 am

"...with an adaptor!…"
saves 1/2 inch?
What's that look like/or/how duz it work?

I've seen 40s'n 50s H2O pumps that sit off the block some, but look even longer~
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: a generic alu (AZ/Summit/Jegs) 250 H2O pump

Post #8 by Econoline » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:55 pm

What about milling down the fan spacer some Chad? I considered doing that, but then went with an electric fan(which takes up more space than the mech fan I think) and I moved the radiator forward with spacers. The stock 70 mustang 4.1 coolant hoses were still long enough with the radiator moved forward 1/2""
Respectfully,

Seth

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Re: a generic alu (AZ/Summit/Jegs) 250 H2O pump

Post #9 by woodbutcher » Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:09 pm

:hmmm: With those flex fans,be careful.They are known for coming apart.If you use one,keep any important body parts out of the line of fire,or you could get a one way trip to the "Marble Orchard".OE type blades can also come apart too.Saw one instance where one of the blades came half way through the hood of the car.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo
"People never lie so much as after a hunt,during a war,or before an election".
Otto von Bismarck

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Re: a generic alu (AZ/Summit/Jegs) 250 H2O pump

Post #10 by chad » Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:14 pm

Tanks 4 da warning. Leo! I've heard stories (here & @ the garage)!

"...a 3 to 4 bolt water pump adaptor, the early "short" 4" water pump from a 200 could fit, giving you an extra 1/4"…"
that's 1 I can't picture. Is it in 1 of ur pic, X? In post #2?
Lastly, I believe some have swapped the radiator onto the frnt side of that L shaped mount frm the backside oe (hafta C if I find info documenting succesful conclusion)."
Gunna ck later - C if I can move the radiator 'ovah da odder side' (of the-is it called 'core support'?). 1 of the numerous bronk vendors (Chuck @bcb) has a cable/in cab hood release...
I C now X has a "1/4 inch idea" so will try'n get more info on dat, but'ould like moah room, lots moah room.
:twisted:
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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