Generator questions

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falcon_master
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Generator questions

Post #1 by falcon_master » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:00 pm

Hi everyone. I am going to try to start up my falcon that has a 170 six with a 3spd column shift. It still has a generator on it. Will that work with modern car batteries. I don't have to much money so I plan on getting a $50 Walmart battery for my model. Is that not going to work
High School car enthusiast. Likes all things ford and engines of any company. 64 falcon 2dr sedan with 170 special six and "3 on the tree" column shift manual transmission. Still in restoration phase.

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62Cometman
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Re: Generator questions

Post #2 by 62Cometman » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:27 pm

Yes it will still work just fine, the generator doesnt put out much for amps about 26-27 doing hwy speeds, but its set up for 12 volt so no worries, id make sure that your voltage regulator works their very prone to failure
1962 Mercury Comet 170 ci, 2.77 Trans, 3.10:1 7.25 rear.
She ain't fast but she's fun. 8)

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ludwig
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Re: Generator questions

Post #3 by ludwig » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:46 pm

Note however that you have to replace the voltage regulator AND the generator at the same time. They will work OK replacing the one or the other, but they really need to be renewed at the same time and polarized. To polarize, you brush the + contact of the generator with the + contact of the VR.

You can look that up on the internet. It is really quite simple.
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Re: Generator questions

Post #4 by B RON CO » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:52 pm

Hi, yes, as mentioned, a new 12 volt battery will work on an old car. Why are you buying a battery? Maybe you don't have one, or maybe yours is dead. Modern batteries should last over 5 years. You have to make sure your charging system is working. If you can get the car started any cheap multi meter should show 13.5 to 14.5 volts at the battery posts. If you don't see this much voltage you have to trouble shoot the charging system. Ludwig is right about the generator and regulator. Old regulators have point contacts that burn, and can go out of adjustment. Generators have brushes and armatures and bearings that wear out. The old school test was to remove the negative cable from the battery when the car is running. If the car runs, the charging system is working. If it stalls, the car is running on battery only. Many people do not like this quick test. Never try it on a modern computerized car. Ask questions before spending money. You may just have to tighten the fan belt. Good luck
B RON CO. Still workin' on it!

1933 Ford Pickup - 59A Flathead V8
1966 Ford Bronco - U14 - 170/200 Straight 6
1966 Ford Mustang - 289 V8

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falcon_master
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Re: Generator questions

Post #5 by falcon_master » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:25 pm

Well thanks for the info but the old battery was toast. I tried a battery reviver and left it on the charger multiple times. It won't even begin to hold a charge and even plugged into a jumpstarter it doesn't want crank. I know the starters not bad because it does enough to make the starter come out but not fully engage. I would try jumpstarting it with another car but I hear that it's really risky to do that
High School car enthusiast. Likes all things ford and engines of any company. 64 falcon 2dr sedan with 170 special six and "3 on the tree" column shift manual transmission. Still in restoration phase.

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falcon_master
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Re: Generator questions

Post #6 by falcon_master » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:25 pm

Well thanks for the info but the old battery was toast. I tried a battery reviver and left it on the charger multiple times. It won't even begin to hold a charge and even plugged into a jumpstarter it doesn't want crank. I know the starters not bad because it does enough to make the starter come out but not fully engage. I would try jumpstarting it with another car but I hear that it's really risky to do that
High School car enthusiast. Likes all things ford and engines of any company. 64 falcon 2dr sedan with 170 special six and "3 on the tree" column shift manual transmission. Still in restoration phase.

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Re: Generator questions

Post #7 by ludwig » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:26 pm

Hey B RON, thanks for the confirmation. I had a 64 Galaxie that developed a battery drain when running. It would not start after running for a while. I just removed the neg cable and drove without the battery draining until I got it sorted out. Turned out it was a generator/VR problem. That's how I learned about the polarization.
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Re: Generator questions

Post #8 by B RON CO » Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:31 am

Hi, after sleeping on it I remembered the generator does not put out much current at idle. If you remove the negative cable have the car on high idle, or have a helper hold the throttle down. Good luck
B RON CO. Still workin' on it!

1933 Ford Pickup - 59A Flathead V8
1966 Ford Bronco - U14 - 170/200 Straight 6
1966 Ford Mustang - 289 V8

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62Cometman
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Re: Generator questions

Post #9 by 62Cometman » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:57 am

BRONCO is correct if you dont give the motor some revs you wont see much at the battery when you check it, I have replaced the VR on my car without replacing the generator they just need to be polarized which the info on how to do it without replacing it can be found online, It worked fine i had that generator on the car for the better part of 7 years before i replaced it with a Powergen unit, granted i did have the generator tested by my local electric repair shop but it can be done
1962 Mercury Comet 170 ci, 2.77 Trans, 3.10:1 7.25 rear.
She ain't fast but she's fun. 8)

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falcon_master
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Re: Generator questions

Post #10 by falcon_master » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:36 am

Once again thanks for the info just let me get something clarified. I have to polarize the gen BEFORE I try to start it or turn on any electrical system. Also there's some wires that are chewed apart under the dash and I don't know which ones they are. Is it still safe to try and start it up.
High School car enthusiast. Likes all things ford and engines of any company. 64 falcon 2dr sedan with 170 special six and "3 on the tree" column shift manual transmission. Still in restoration phase.

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Re: Generator questions

Post #11 by ags290 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:02 pm

You need to address the chewed wires before trying to start the car. Even if it is just wrapping the broken ends with electrical tape. Without knowing which circuits are involved the safe thing to do is to tape up anything that you see with damage before installing the new battery. You do not want to have an electrical fire under the dash.

Back years ago we used to clean the contacts in voltage regulators with emery boards to extend the life. They work essentially the same way as points in a distributor. There is a ton of information online to help you with your charging system if there is an issue with it. Generators and external voltage regulators are a great starting point in learning how to use your multi meter for a practical example.

Good Luck,

Kevin
Kevin
Early 1965 Mustang with a 170

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B RON CO
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Re: Generator questions

Post #12 by B RON CO » Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:05 pm

Hi, you don't polarize the generator. Brand new mechanical regulator (very old fashioned) needs to be polarized. I don't remember the procedure, Ford an GM was different. You briefly touch the regulator posts to a battery with jumper wires.
Repair any frayed wires first.
Have you ever ran this car?
Good luck
B RON CO. Still workin' on it!

1933 Ford Pickup - 59A Flathead V8
1966 Ford Bronco - U14 - 170/200 Straight 6
1966 Ford Mustang - 289 V8

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Re: Generator questions

Post #13 by ludwig » Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:23 pm

Check out this set of wiring diagrams for Falcons. The 1964 Falcon has a part A and part B. B is under the hood. A is the dash. They look complex but they are not. Each wire is color coded and you can follow them to the fixture, appliance or component by tracing each line individually.

You might want to look at diagram A when you explore the wires under the dash. The colors may be faded but they should start and stop at the original place. However, the diagrams are laid out much as they are in the car with the passenger side at the bottom of the page. Just needs a little time and patience.


http://www.wiring-wizard.com/Falcon_Diagrams.htm
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