Finding a large log cylinder head?

Moderator: Mod Squad

Royals65i6
Registered User
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:10 pm

Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #1 by Royals65i6 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:31 pm

I am fairly new to this so forgive me if I am missing something. I have a stock i6 200 and from what I have been reading there is a lot to gain by putting a 250 head on a 200. What is the best way to find one and what should I expect to pay for it?

64-5mustang
Registered User
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:43 pm

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #2 by 64-5mustang » Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:18 am

First and few questions what are you planning to do with this motor intended use. And what year is it? The 200 and 250 head is the same, the head does change over the years. The best flow and valves is 77 and up but that does have a large compression chamber, as to where older ones have a smaller chamber. The added air flow will not make up for the drop in compression. But the head can be milled to correct that. I highly recommend that you get the falcon six porfmance book it has the specks of all the heads and great info in general. As to finding one just call up your local junk yards and see if they have one. I was able to find one for 100 but it can be a hit or miss. Make a plan on what you want - need before you spend money on something you don't need.

User avatar
B RON CO
VIP Member
Posts: 560
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:02 pm
Location: Long Island, NY
Contact:

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #3 by B RON CO » Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:41 am

Hi, X2 on the Falcon Performance Handbook. Besides sorting out the different heads there are many tips to get the most out of your Ford six. Post the casting number and picture from the top of the intake manifold so we can see the year and model of your head. Flat top logs are easier to modify than hex logs. You may already have a good head to start with. Good luck
B RON CO. Still workin' on it!

1933 Ford Pickup - 59A Flathead V8
1966 Ford Bronco - U14 - 170/200 Straight 6
1966 Ford Mustang - 289 V8

Royals65i6
Registered User
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:10 pm

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #4 by Royals65i6 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:51 am

It's a 65 mustang. Purely a recreational car. Fun driving around town and fast when I want to. I could get a good pic of the intake manifold numbers but I can list them starting from the left : 5E20 C5O(this could be a D)E-6090-A. It's a flat top log.

Royals65i6
Registered User
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:10 pm

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #5 by Royals65i6 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:07 pm

Actually I'm not sure that it is a flat top.

User avatar
B RON CO
VIP Member
Posts: 560
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:02 pm
Location: Long Island, NY
Contact:

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #6 by B RON CO » Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:26 pm

Hi, the number you want is ** DE 6090 A. Figure out what the prefix is.
If you have a C5DE 6090 A,
your head is a 1965 because C5 is a Ford code for 1965.
All heads, including later heads with larger logs, carb opening, and maybe hardened valve seats
will bolt on, but your original carb may not. Good luck
B RON CO. Still workin' on it!

1933 Ford Pickup - 59A Flathead V8
1966 Ford Bronco - U14 - 170/200 Straight 6
1966 Ford Mustang - 289 V8

bmbm40
Registered User
Posts: 931
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:25 pm
Location: Carson City, NV

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #7 by bmbm40 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:05 pm

Hi great Mustang to own that is the year I want. Get a copy of the Falcon Performance Handbook it is a valuable resource and will get you up to speed quickly on performance and maintenance plans for the 170/200/250. Worth way more than it cost and was created by the fabulous Schjeldahl brothers who were some of the original pioneers in advanced Ford six studies.
The 250 arrived in about 1969 and so the head was upgraded with a larger log intake and valves and carb inlet hole increased. Yes you can get a good performance increase with a later head and different carb and ignition. If you are in contact with wsa then you are good with the ignition system. All detailed in the Handbook. Later heads not quite as easy nowadays to find but start with wrecking yards and car-part.com. The heads with D7BE and D8BE, both used on the 200 and 250, are nice ones to get and some others may be suitable for you also.
What transmission do you have?
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

'81 F150 4x4 300

New guy? Get this>http://www.falcon6handbook.com

bmbm40
Registered User
Posts: 931
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:25 pm
Location: Carson City, NV

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #8 by bmbm40 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:06 pm

Hi great Mustang to own that is the year I want. Get a copy of the Falcon Performance Handbook it is a valuable resource and will get you up to speed quickly on performance and maintenance plans for the 170/200/250. Worth way more than it cost and was created by the fabulous Schjeldahl brothers who were some of the original pioneers in advanced Ford six studies.
The 250 arrived in about 1969 and so the head was upgraded with a larger log intake and valves and carb inlet hole increased. Yes you can get a good performance increase with a later head and different carb and ignition. If you are in contact with wsa then you are good with the ignition system. All detailed in the Handbook. Later heads not quite as easy nowadays to find but start with wrecking yards and car-part.com. The heads with D7BE and D8BE, both used on the 200 and 250, are nice ones to get and some others may be suitable for you also.
What transmission do you have?
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

'81 F150 4x4 300

New guy? Get this>http://www.falcon6handbook.com

Royals65i6
Registered User
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:10 pm

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #9 by Royals65i6 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:58 am

Will any 250 head from 1969-80 work, or should I only look for one from 77 and 78?

It's a 3 speed, but I do want to upgrade to a t5

CZLN6
VIP Member
Posts: 3104
Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2002 11:07 am
Location: Idaho Falls, Id
Contact:

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #10 by CZLN6 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:28 pm

Howdy Back Royals and All:

Q- "Will any 250 head from 1969-80 work"?
A- Yes. Some are better and offer more improvements and are better for durability and performance.

Q- or should I only look for one from 77 and 78?
A- The '77 and later heads offer several features that make them preferred. Things like hardened valve seats, larger intake tract volume and 1.75" intake valves.

All 200 and 250 heads are the same from 1970 model year on. Changes came from year to year. By the 1978 castings you can be quite sure that all of the best upgrades will be present. On the price, that varies considerably. We got most of our head cores from junk yards. Some from friends that were upgrading to a V8. Prices ranged from free to $40. (Note- I haven't checked in the past few years.)

Good luck.

Adios, David
co-author of the Falcon Performance Handbook
http://www.falcon6handbook.com/

bmbm40
Registered User
Posts: 931
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:25 pm
Location: Carson City, NV

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #11 by bmbm40 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:13 pm

The Handbook provides details for all the six heads as they progressed through the years and the associated casting numbers so you know what to look for.
The T5 conversion is also covered in the Handbook and is a good performance choice. You get a close ratio four speed to replace your current three gears and an od for flying down the highway.
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

'81 F150 4x4 300

New guy? Get this>http://www.falcon6handbook.com

Royals65i6
Registered User
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:10 pm

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #12 by Royals65i6 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:38 pm

I think I might have found a 250 head. The person I talked to said it was from a 79 Granada, and the number on the intake is D9DE 9C485. I know the first 4 numbers mean 79 Granada engine, but what do the last 5 mean?

bmbm40
Registered User
Posts: 931
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:25 pm
Location: Carson City, NV

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #13 by bmbm40 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:40 pm

The first two ,D9, would mean 1979 but I am not familiar with a 79 head. The other numbers I am not sure what they are. Awhile back I got a 250 from a 79 Monarch and it is a D7 if I recall correctly. The large flat log. The good one. Get it and the air cleaner if it is available and the carb.
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

'81 F150 4x4 300

New guy? Get this>http://www.falcon6handbook.com

User avatar
rocklord
Registered User
Posts: 1205
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 11:25 pm
Location: Hurricane, WV

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #14 by rocklord » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:58 am

As mentioned previously, in the later years the 200 and 250 used the same head. The 200 was produced in the early 80's and can be found in the Fairmont/Zephyr/Mustang/LTDII. The casting code starts with E0 or E1 and has the largest log head volume of 1420cc.

Just another place to find the better head.
Dan

Currently Own
1965 Mustang, 200CID, 3Spd
1964 Corvair Coupe, 164CID, 140HP, 4Spd
1961 Corvair Lakewood wagon, 145CID, 80HP, 2Spd Powerglide Auto.
2017 BMW X3, 3.0L Dual Turbo, 300HP, 8-Spd Auto

Royals65i6
Registered User
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:10 pm

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #15 by Royals65i6 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:23 am

So, this would be the cylinder head I should buy, correct?

IMG_20171218_153116519.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 3273
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

casting numbers for a large log cylinder head

Post #16 by chad » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:26 pm

yep, E0xxxx is nice for lotta stuff, whadya gunna do?
E1xxxx is good for the same kinda jobs.
As above, it has hardened seats, larger valves & larger volumn...

Other heads R good for other things.
:twisted:
Last edited by chad on Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

Royals65i6
Registered User
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:10 pm

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #17 by Royals65i6 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:46 pm

I'm just following the list of things to do from the tech article "Building a Street Motor".
I figure I will buy that cylinder head and open up the intake manifold for a 2 barrel carb., which I am open to suggestions on. Unless someone knows where to find a CI head or an Aussie one, which would be awesome.

I'm not building a race car, but more like a fun car.

drag-200stang
Registered User
Posts: 791
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 6:10 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #18 by drag-200stang » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:02 pm

Royals65i6 wrote:So, this would be the cylinder head I should buy, correct?

IMG_20171218_153116519.jpg

Yes , that is a as good as you can do for a log..Big improvement over the early dog logs.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

Royals65i6
Registered User
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:10 pm

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #19 by Royals65i6 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:00 am

So I picked up the cylinder head pictured previously, and plan on following the step as described in the tech article "Building a Street motor". Before I take it to a machine shop I need to figure which carb to use. Based on what I have read, there seems to be no consensus, but the Holley 4412 and Weber 38/38 seem to be the front runners. Any recommendations on which one to go with? Thanks for any advice.

Royals65i6
Registered User
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:10 pm

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #20 by Royals65i6 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:55 pm

Also, what's the hole for in the top of the intake manifold log? I haven't seen it addressed in any articles and my 1965 200 cylinder head doesn't have one.
modified head.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 7570
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #21 by bubba22349 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:06 pm

:beer: Congrats that is about the best head you can get. That boss / hole on the top of intake log is a vaccum tap if you don't need to use it you can use a pipe plug to block it off. The Holley or Autolite / Motorcraft 2V carb's work very well, and if your real good at tuning then the Weber carb's can be good too. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

bmbm40
Registered User
Posts: 931
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:25 pm
Location: Carson City, NV

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #22 by bmbm40 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:27 pm

Glad you found a head quickly.
The 2100 1.08 is worth considering for your 200 / large head. Combined with a DSII from WSA curved for your setup and it should be a good performer.
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

'81 F150 4x4 300

New guy? Get this>http://www.falcon6handbook.com

Royals65i6
Registered User
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:10 pm

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #23 by Royals65i6 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:22 am

So, what would happen if you just left the small hole on the intake manifold open?

I will be getting the bottom of the cylinder head milled, and assuming that it has not been milled before, I am planning on having .075 taken off. Will someone verify my calculations? This is a 1980 head and I will be putting it on a 1965 engine.

new Felpro gasket .04
old gasket - .025 = .015

.015 + .05 = .065 to reduce the chamber size by 10cc

.065 + .01 = .075 to increase c/r from 9.2 to 9.4

My machinist is worried about taking that much off, but the tech article states that up to .9 is safe.

I am not removing the engine block from the car, so no zero decking.

I don't want to jack this up. Let me know what you think.

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 7570
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #24 by bubba22349 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:13 am

Leaving the hole open will cause a giant vaccum leak, most likely the engine would not even start or run. But if it did run it would run quite poorly. Good luck :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

User avatar
B RON CO
VIP Member
Posts: 560
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:02 pm
Location: Long Island, NY
Contact:

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #25 by B RON CO » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:23 am

Hi, nice head. See the procedure to CC the combustion chambers before milling the head. Compare the chamber size now, from when it was stock, and you will have an idea on how much to mill. As mentioned, plug the vacuum port. There is probably another vacuum port under the carb baseplate. Good luck
B RON CO. Still workin' on it!

1933 Ford Pickup - 59A Flathead V8
1966 Ford Bronco - U14 - 170/200 Straight 6
1966 Ford Mustang - 289 V8

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 3273
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

what 2 do w/a large log cylinder head?

Post #26 by chad » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:00 am

"... CC the combustion chambers before milling the head..."
2X !!!
define cam,CR for application of THIS vehicle (more specific than just 'a fun car').
If not getting up to speed as recommended here w/the "Handbook" read the entire Tech Archive.
There R some concepts I think ur missing.
Pardon me for my assumptions and 'straightforwardness', want the best for your build.

As RON sez above: "... See the procedure to CC the combustion chambers before milling the head. Compare the chamber size now, from when it was stock, and you will have an idea on how much to mil..."
Last edited by chad on Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

drag-200stang
Registered User
Posts: 791
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 6:10 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #27 by drag-200stang » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:34 am

If you do not mind, can you tell us the condition of the head and how much you paid for it?
Thank you.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

User avatar
B RON CO
VIP Member
Posts: 560
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:02 pm
Location: Long Island, NY
Contact:

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #28 by B RON CO » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:02 am

Hi, now I see roller tip rockers on the new head. Find out the rocker ratio before picking a cam. You will need cupped pushrods for your build. There are some choices. See the selection at Vintage Inlines. Good luck
B RON CO. Still workin' on it!

1933 Ford Pickup - 59A Flathead V8
1966 Ford Bronco - U14 - 170/200 Straight 6
1966 Ford Mustang - 289 V8

Royals65i6
Registered User
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:10 pm

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #29 by Royals65i6 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:58 am

The E0BE cylinder head I got from the scrap salvage yard has been magnafluxed and a small crack fixed. Unfortunately, the cost to open the intake manifold up for a 2v carb will be too expensive. I know the Weber DGV with 2-1 adaptor has a 1.5 opening and the cylinder head I have is a 1.75 opening. Are there larger adaptors to help maximize air flow? Could the Weber adaptor opening be expanded? Should I be looking at a different carb? Thanks for the any advice.

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 3273
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

minimal head wrk on an E0xxx

Post #30 by chad » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:34 am

"...will be too expensive..."
sorry to be so personal but how much is being charged?
Not sure ur geo location but we have a forum for "local machine shops" that may offer a better referral...

Some do this specific operation as a DYI w/o milling machinery. (Also:
C post #26 B4 any head wrk is completed/planned).
:nod:
:thumbup:
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

User avatar
Econoline
Registered User
Posts: 830
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:37 pm
Location: Anacortes, WA

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #31 by Econoline » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:34 am

Royals65i6 wrote:I know the Weber DGV with 2-1 adaptor has a 1.5 opening and the cylinder head I have is a 1.75 opening. Are there larger adaptors to help maximize air flow?



https://www.vintageinlines.com/product- ... -large-log
Respectfully,

Seth

Royals65i6
Registered User
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:10 pm

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #32 by Royals65i6 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:39 pm

Thanks for the link to the large head adaptor, somehow I missed that.

I'm getting the cylinder head CC'ed next, so I can determine how much to mill off the bottom.

I live in Kansas City. I have been able to locate 8 machine shops here, but only 1 does furnace brazing, which according to the tech article is what should be done before milling the intake. This 1 shop doesn't furnace braze on site, they would send the head out to central Kansas for that at an estimated cost of $400-500.

If I am missing something that would simplify this, please let me know.

My goal is to maximize performance for a street engine. I will not be racing this car.

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 3273
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

sequence of operations

Post #33 by chad » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:12 pm

"...1 does furnace brazing,..."
excellent, make sure to have them 'build up some surface area" (have U seen pics here of the unfortunate results when not doing so?) BEFORE they do the milling for DM (wish I could cite the thread w/pic of the '69 M head shown milled 4 DM here).

Also the CCing is 1st, other performance milling 2nd (some of which is based on the cc results), and the passes for the DM last. Determine CR first, before all of this, select cam in the middle or along w/machining planning, rocker ratio, etc. Again, we're kinda back to the 1st or 2nd post: "...what are you planning to do with this motor intended use..." as the optimal/primary Q that guides each decision. Pardon me but to me anything much past the stock (except for a modern cam upgrade, 3 < valve job, back cut, & leveling pass on head for truing up & modern gasket) is a performance or race mod. There is just so much variety in there that its good to define just what level...

Thanks for taking me along on your ride (to completion). Sounds like you've got it all pretty much there, again pardon any paternalism! Esp since I aint no ex-sprit.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

User avatar
cr_bobcat
Registered User
Posts: 668
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:13 am
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #34 by cr_bobcat » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:46 pm

FWIW, I did not have mine grazed and it worked out just fine. If you're set on brazing, talk to 1hotvega on here. He is in Cali but does great work from the pictures I've seen.
Block: Stock C8 Block/pistons, C9-M head, 1.75/1.5 valves, dual spring, 1.65 RAU Rockers, port divider, direct mount Holley 4412-500, HEI w/20* advance, manifold vac, dual-out Arvinode exhaust, Clay Smith 264/274 110* installed w/ 4* advance, adjustable dual chain timing, C4 w/ shift kit, 3.20 (TBC) rear ratio, 9.44 SCR / 7.97 DCR

Build that Six with parts from http://www.vintageinlines.com

chero1369
Registered User
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:49 am
Location: slowdeatha,Tx

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #35 by chero1369 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:38 am

Royals,
On my E0 head,after I stripped the valves and all,I took a grinder to the 1 bbl knob.sharpied on thehole pattern and using a smaller grinder,opened it up,finished with a dremel.Then cut valve guides for comp cams viton530(520-16)valve seals.A little port/polish,what I could reach.
I then took the head,both adapters(weber,2100) and port divider to a welder buddy.he did it cheap,but I wired his shop,so...
Machine shop for the rest.060 mill,hardned valve seats,big SS valves,3 angle(no backcut,forgot/not racing).Cleanup on carb mount and exhaust. $350 also needed 1 valve guide.
back at my shed,I enlarged 1 hole in one of the adapters and marked and drilled 6 holes.Now I can use either a 32/36 or a 2100.
I just haven't made linkage or cable for the 2100.
Now that I'm on head #7,and after teaching me how to braze,my welder bud has come up with a high nickel rod made FOR cast iron.

Basically,I'm saying do as much as you can yourself.sounds like that guy wanting $400 needs $200 for beer money.
after the 4th head ,you can dance while you do it,just don't let people see you,they'll pepperspray you cause they don'y understand..........

chero1369
Registered User
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:49 am
Location: slowdeatha,Tx

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #36 by chero1369 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:45 am

oopps.I also put a vaumn guage in that hole in the front of the log.As soon as I get an amercan made stainless one in there it'll look all shiny and stuff!

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 3273
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

direct mount on different style logs

Post #37 by chad » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:33 am

good on ya chero! After 7 U can go into business doin this!
Got any pic?
Thanks for the post! (esp like 2 C the 2100/weber ability)
/AND/
hi nic content is the way 2 go on cast! (use it 4 da port divider too).
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

Royals65i6
Registered User
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:10 pm

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #38 by Royals65i6 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:09 pm

Thanks for they suggestion Chero, I had been wondering if that was a possibility. So, let me see if I have my steps in order.
1. Use a small surface grinder to take off the 1v nob intake.
2. Use a surface grinder, the same size as the carb adapter plate, to make a level surface to weld the plate to.
3. Trace the shape of the 2v opening onto the new flat surface and grind out the excess. What did you use to do that?
4. Use a Dremel tool to smooth the edges.
5. Drill and tap 3 or 4 holes for the mounting screws, and clean up all metal shavings.
6. Use high temp silicone around the new opening and attach the adaptor plate. Done?

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 3273
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

DYI / home shop direct mount mod

Post #39 by chad » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:40 pm

for those 6 steps I'd add one B4 them all:
"See other examples as models before starting."

Also ck a 'miss step' w/the 'search' function above by looking for member "MPGs"s photos...

I really think the surface grinder or other tool and cutting machinery ( milling machine, Bridgeport, etc) is the way to go. One thing some DYIers don't do is have the 3 or 4 % cant in the surface as the carb doesn't sit 'level' on there (or more correctly - the engine isn't level in the vehicle)...
Also at "1a" or "2a" I'd add B4 subtracting esp on specific yr heads (there's hex, round and flat at the minimum)


Enjoy !
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

User avatar
Econoline
Registered User
Posts: 830
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:37 pm
Location: Anacortes, WA

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #40 by Econoline » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:44 pm

Our fellow member, Jerry aka 'stanyon', did just that. Cut it off with a skilsaw fiber disc on a heavy duty buffer, cleaned it up and flattened it with a file and made an aluminum adapter for a weber. I saw it in person, he did a great job of it. You don't have to spend alot of money.

Image

Image

Image

http://vintage-vans.forumotion.com/t369 ... n-65-truck

In that thread, notice where he blew through into the water jacket on an exhaust port on the first junkyard head he worked on porting.
Respectfully,

Seth

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 3273
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

'add' B4 'subtract'

Post #41 by chad » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:32 am

the 2nd pic above (middle 1) shows the danger of no 'build up' before 'take away'...
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

drag-200stang
Registered User
Posts: 791
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 6:10 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: 'add' B4 'subtract'

Post #42 by drag-200stang » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:06 am

chad wrote:the 2nd pic above (middle 1) shows the danger of no 'build up' before 'take away'...

Chad if you look at the that pic you will see that if the ground flat spot and mostly the opening is moved to the front toward port 3 some, no filling is necessary. Forget the original hole. Others have been successful.. Bobcat said he did not braze..I will not pay to do some thing if I can do it myself..Carefully fitting an adapter and bolting down with a gasket can be done at home. Make the adapter yourself so you can place the bolts where needed for the best clamping and matching of the opening..More smaller Flathead machine screws work better than BIG bolts.
The hex head will be more difficult than the flat top..For that may take a home made aluminum adapter contoured to fit.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 3273
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

Finding the right log 4 'DM', doing it the best way

Post #43 by chad » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:00 am

thanks for the post-back.
So what ur saying is some of what I call mistakes are simply from "misplacing the hole"?
Does "adding 1st" not help w/that?

(I'm seeking more info all the time yet am not one to consider this mod (as done by me or a machinist) but would like to continue the discussion into detail (tq, C my vehicle, is my need, not HP).
I'm also looking at hack-the-log-off discussions w/the same interest.
For decades folks have lauded the bottom end and dised the intake.
The 2v Oz & alu head R great work-arounds. The very 1st mod I saw was the X-flow-mod-to-USA-250. Let C what these innovators come up with. Ron Ward:
viewtopic.php?p=599225#p599225
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

drag-200stang
Registered User
Posts: 791
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 6:10 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Finding the right log 4 'DM', doing it the best way

Post #44 by drag-200stang » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:16 pm

thanks for the post-back.
So what ur saying is some of what I call mistakes are simply from "misplacing the hole ?. - Yes.
Does "adding 1st" not help w/that? - No need to, just plan it out carefully.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

Royals65i6
Registered User
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:10 pm

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #45 by Royals65i6 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:17 pm

When milling the intake, should I try to match the slope of the actual log or the old 1.75" opening? How much does it matter?

User avatar
Econoline
Registered User
Posts: 830
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:37 pm
Location: Anacortes, WA

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #46 by Econoline » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:06 pm

The carb mount should be on the same plane/angle as the original which is around 3 degrees iirc. The engine sits at that angle and the carb should be close to level. That's what makes doing it "right" more difficult b/c the way the log is cast.
Respectfully,

Seth

drag-200stang
Registered User
Posts: 791
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 6:10 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Finding a large log cylinder head?

Post #47 by drag-200stang » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:10 pm

Royals65i6 wrote:When milling the intake, should I try to match the slope of the actual log or the old 1.75" opening? How much does it matter?

I would prefer to mill grind or file the manifold whatever angle that that gives you the best sealing and location of most full sized carb bore. If you angle the manifold sealing and thickness for bolts get to thin on one side. best to make the angle on the adapter.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: cr_bobcat, tdlund and 7 guests