Looking for advice on what to do

Econoline":dzn95zmm said:
Hi Carson. What is the condition of the short block? That will determine what is going to be best to raise the compression.

Basically, you'll mill the head to compensate for thicker modern gasket and mill further to shrink the combustion chambers and achieve the c/r you are shooting for. It's based upon the deck clearance, which is the minimum distance of the crown of the piston to the deck and the volume of the combustion chambers, along with the volume of the piston dish, gasket thickness, gasket bore etc. But once you know those two numbers , after actually measuring them, you can calculate the static compression based upon the other specs of the 200 engine. Once you pick a cam you can plug in those numbers and calculate the effective stroke and the real or dynamic compression ratio. Like David said it's really important to know what you plan to do with the car, i.e daily driver or weekend hot rod etc. What type of transmission rear ratio and so on. Highway driving vs around town etc.

From there you'll develop a plan based upon what you have, iow if the short block is ok, maybe just a cam/lifters and a new timing set for it, maybe bearings and a re-ring. But if you need to rebuild the block you'll want to mill the deck for near zero clearance then mill the head the to get the rest to the goal, i.e 9.1-9.5 sc/r but it's cam dependent as well, which is dependent on the intended use etc. You see? That's why it's important to 1, know what you've got and the 2, make a coherent plan to get there within budget.

A goal of 150hp at the wheels is a good one, 200 is alot to go for without a full blown build and/or turbo.
Click to expand...


Thank you very much Seth for the explanation. I am taking this very slow and gathering tons of information on this topic from all you awesome people.

Around 150hp to the wheels would be totally awesome and enough for me and my expectations. I was only looking for 200hp or so at the flywheel.

Thanks,
Carson
 
we'll show ya how 2 get enuff at each price point.
The "Handbook" would B a good purchase, look up the "Tech Archive" (C 4th big blue bx above) while waiting for delivery!
 
chad":2w6fqa37 said:
we'll show ya how 2 get enuff at each price point.
The "Handbook" would B a good purchase, look up the "Tech Archive" (C 4th big blue bx above) while waiting for delivery!
Click to expand...

Already checked that out. Very informative and helped me answer some more questions.

Thanks,
Carson
 
1967LimeGoldMustang":10hqwqbm said:
bubba22349":10hqwqbm said:
1967LimeGoldMustang":10hqwqbm said:
Hi bubba thanks for the tips! I'll make sure to consider those. Couple questions, what is the best header for this engine and how could I clear it from the starter? Second between a 2bbl and tri power what are the pros/cons with each?

Thanks again,
Carson
Click to expand...

Hi Carson, on headers there are severial choices V.I. (See their link at top of the forum) makes a nice header (shortie) and matched single or dual exhaust system to fit the Mustangs. Another very good header is the Hooker long tube will be a bit tighter fitting but for a max H.P. effort its the way to go. The rest of your exhaust will need to be custom built and fitted. Search for pictures of wsa111 exhaust system for an idea of what an excellent design looks like using the long tube Hookers.

The main problems of the log heads are fuel distribution, the plentum volume, and a small 1V carb designed for great fuel economy. The best stock heads for performance that we have to work with are very late 1970's to 1982-3 these have the largest logs, ports, valves, and valve seats designed for unleaded fuel use. The pros of the 2V system is ease of fit and Tuning! The con is though it's a much better size carb we still don't have the ideal fuel distribution. At near the end of 200 engine production (aprox. the early 1980's) Ford had built some experimental log heads for testing using this 2V design so it looks like they had planed to go in that direction.

The pros of the Tri power system is that we have even better fuel distribution and it can be used with progressive linkage and still get some decent economy or solid linkage for a drag race system. Offy still makes these 3 X 1V intake kits just like they did back when the Falcon six was a new engine, install is fairly easy too. The cons are it can be harder to fit air cleaners with the stock hood clearance on some Ford models, and it's more difficult to tune. Hope that answers some of your questions, good luck on your Mustang (y) :nod:
Click to expand...


Thank you very much bubba! I will probably be going in the 2bbl direction and see what I could do. I will be trying to find a 250 head as well. I heard the compression will be lower using that head. How can I bring the compression ratio up to a decent amount?

Thanks so much for the help,

Carson
Click to expand...

Hi Carson, when looking for a late model large log head (1977 and up to 1982-3) remember that both the 200's and 250's engines used the exact same head. X2 To get the compression ratio up it's a simple matter of milling the head surface, to know how much you need to measure the combustion chamber size. Ball park is .025 just for the new type composition gaskets difference in thickness plus however much you want to raise it like another .025 and even more. You also need to decide on the fuel grade you want to run too. This plus knowing the pistion dish volume and amount the pistion is below the block deck (usally is about .019 on a stock 200) all of which will help you finalize your S.C.R. I also revised my other post recommendations above to more reflect your stated budget too. Good luck (y) :nod: Edited
 
cr_bobcat":2dj2f8bh said:
Welcome! First off, great choice for a first car! I bought my 67 coupe when I was 15 and still have it 25 years later!

I would really recommend getting the Falcon Six Handbook. Read through it a couple times.

You won't find a better source of information and experience than this forum. Sift through some of the old threads for additional ideas.

The best piece of advice I can offer is to build a plan first! Keep in mind your budget and phase things so it's not so overwhelming.

Excited to see what you decide to do
Click to expand...

Thanks bobcat! This topic really exploded since you were here lol. All the help is great and I learned a lot in a few days.

Carson
 
bubba22349":gtk7g0mk said:
1967LimeGoldMustang":gtk7g0mk said:
bubba22349":gtk7g0mk said:
Hi Carson, on headers there are severial choices V.I. (See their link at top of the forum) makes a nice header (shortie) and matched single or dual exhaust system to fit the Mustangs. Another very good header is the Hooker long tube will be a bit tighter fitting but for a max H.P. effort its the way to go. The rest of your exhaust will need to be custom built and fitted. Search for pictures of wsa111 exhaust system for an idea of what an excellent design looks like using the long tube Hookers.

The main problems of the log heads are fuel distribution, the plentum volume, and a small 1V carb designed for great fuel economy. The best stock heads for performance that we have to work with are very late 1970's to 1982-3 these have the largest logs, ports, valves, and valve seats designed for unleaded fuel use. The pros of the 2V system is ease of fit and Tuning! The con is though it's a much better size carb we still don't have the ideal fuel distribution. At near the end of 200 engine production (aprox. the early 1980's) Ford had built some experimental log heads for testing using this 2V design so it looks like they had planed to go in that direction.

The pros of the Tri power system is that we have even better fuel distribution and it can be used with progressive linkage and still get some decent economy or solid linkage for a drag race system. Offy still makes these 3 X 1V intake kits just like they did back when the Falcon six was a new engine, install is fairly easy too. The cons are it can be harder to fit air cleaners with the stock hood clearance on some Ford models, and it's more difficult to tune. Hope that answers some of your questions, good luck on your Mustang (y) :nod:
Click to expand...


Thank you very much bubba! I will probably be going in the 2bbl direction and see what I could do. I will be trying to find a 250 head as well. I heard the compression will be lower using that head. How can I bring the compression ratio up to a decent amount?

Thanks so much for the help,

Carson
Click to expand...

Hi Carson, when looking for a late model large log head (1977 and up to 1982-3) remember that both the 200's and 250's engines used the exact same head. X2 To get the compression ratio up it's a simple matter of milling the head surface, to know how much you need to measure the combustion chamber size. Ball park is .025 just for the new type composing gaskets difference in thickness plus however much you want to raise it like another .025 and even more. You also need to decide on the fuel grade you want to run too. This plus knowing the pistion dish volume and amount the pistion is below the block deck (usally is about .019 on a stock 200) all of which will help you finalize your S.C.R. I also revised my other post recommendations above to more reflect your stated budget too. Good luck (y) :nod: Edited
Click to expand...


Thanks for that and the revisions bubba helps out alot with my limited budget. I was checking out the tech archives and saw what you were explaining plus more. I was checking out the header on vintage inlines but it was out of stock. Same thing on the speed daddy website. Says it should be back in stock soon though. Just to clear something up is vintage inlines the new classic inlines? I remember long ago stumbling on classic inlines but couldn't find it again. I see everyone referring to "CI" but it's not there anymore.

Thanks for all the help guys.
 
1967LimeGoldMustang":1ukn9god said:
bubba22349":1ukn9god said:
1967LimeGoldMustang":1ukn9god said:
Thank you very much bubba! I will probably be going in the 2bbl direction and see what I could do. I will be trying to find a 250 head as well. I heard the compression will be lower using that head. How can I bring the compression ratio up to a decent amount?

Thanks so much for the help,

Carson
Click to expand...

Hi Carson, when looking for a late model large log head (1977 and up to 1982-3) remember that both the 200's and 250's engines used the exact same head. X2 To get the compression ratio up it's a simple matter of milling the head surface, to know how much you need to measure the combustion chamber size. Ball park is .025 just fort the gasket difference plus however much you want to raise it another .025 and even more. You also need to decide on the fuel grade you want to run too. This plus knowing the pistion dish volume and amount the pistion is below the block deck (usally is about .019 on a stock 200) all of which will help you finalize your S.C.R. I also revised my other post recommendations above to more reflect your stated budget too. Good luck (y) :nod: Edited
Click to expand...


Thanks for that and the revisions bubba helps out alot with my limited budget. I was checking out the tech archives and saw what you were explaining plus more. I was checking out the header on vintage inlines but it was out of stock. Same thing on the speed daddy website. Says it should be back in stock soon though. Just to clear something up is vintage inlines the new classic inlines? I remember long ago stumbling on classic inlines but couldn't find it again. I see everyone referring to "CI" but it's not there anymore.

Thanks for all the help guys.
Click to expand...

Hi Carson, your welcome. Az Coupe was the owner of Classic Inlines, he past'ed away in early 2015. Though the old C.I. Web site was still up and working on auto pilot well into 2016, but the actual business part of it wasn't. Later on Matt at V.I. was able to buy the remaining C.I. parts stock, rights ect. so that essentially much of Az Coupe's work and passion in creating C.I. still continues on within Matts new V.I. company. Good luck :nod:
 
bubba22349":2l34q5tm said:
1967LimeGoldMustang":2l34q5tm said:
bubba22349":2l34q5tm said:
Hi Carson, when looking for a late model large log head (1977 and up to 1982-3) remember that both the 200's and 250's engines used the exact same head. X2 To get the compression ratio up it's a simple matter of milling the head surface, to know how much you need to measure the combustion chamber size. Ball park is .025 just fort the gasket difference plus however much you want to raise it another .025 and even more. You also need to decide on the fuel grade you want to run too. This plus knowing the pistion dish volume and amount the pistion is below the block deck (usally is about .019 on a stock 200) all of which will help you finalize your S.C.R. I also revised my other post recommendations above to more reflect your stated budget too. Good luck (y) :nod: Edited
Click to expand...


Thanks for that and the revisions bubba helps out alot with my limited budget. I was checking out the tech archives and saw what you were explaining plus more. I was checking out the header on vintage inlines but it was out of stock. Same thing on the speed daddy website. Says it should be back in stock soon though. Just to clear something up is vintage inlines the new classic inlines? I remember long ago stumbling on classic inlines but couldn't find it again. I see everyone referring to "CI" but it's not there anymore.

Thanks for all the help guys.
Click to expand...

Hi Carson, your welcome. Az Coupe was the owner of Classic Inlines, he past'ed away in early 2015. Though the old C.I. Web site was still up and working on auto pilot well into 2016, but the actual business part of it wasn't. Later on Matt at V.I. was able to buy the remaining C.I. parts stock, rights ect. so that essentially much of Az Coupe's work and passion in creating C.I. still continues on within Matts new V.I. company. Good luck :nod:
Click to expand...


Ok makes a lot of sense. Well seeing how I have all this info now and many questions answered I'll be starting as soon as possible! I will be coming back and re-reading this thread and tech archives a lot lol. Thanks so much for the help guys!

Carson
 
"... I will be coming back..."
and talking as U go along I (we) hope!
 
Howdy Back Carson and All:

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if you are in a bit of shock with the info you've gotten so far. It is a bit to take in all at once. So, let's back up a bit. 1. Keep reading, learning and planning. Include a shop manual for a 1967 Mustang and memorize it, or, at least refer to it often.

Next spend your time and money getting to know what you have and how to get the most out of it. That's the place to really start learning. Get to know how your Autolite 1100 carb with its Spark Control Valve (SCV) works with your Load-O-Matic (LoM) distributor. At this point you should probably invest in a timing light and a vacuum gauge. I haven't ask yet what tools and equipment you have? Finish your stock tune up with adding an additional 5 degrees of initial advance over stock spec. Spend your money wisely.

FYI- After about 1970, the 200 and 250 heads are the same. BUt you will want a later model head for future development. Preferably a 1978 or later head.

Increasing CR, improving valve flow and bigger exhaust valves go hand-in-hand when it is time for a valve job. That's also where buying a late model head and building it so you will have it ready to swap on with the least amount of down time.

Upgrading to a DuraSpark II ignition system will go hand-in-hand with a later model carb upgrade. They, the carb and distributor, have to match in terms of vacuum source and advance mechanism. IF you swap a DS II ignition system into an Autolite 1100 carb neither will work as designed. The distributor wants a Ported Vacuum source for vacuum advance and the carb is offering a load sensitive vacuum signal designed to work with the SCV in the LoM distributor.

FYI- the 2.83:1 rear-end ratio will never feel "sporty". Even with 120 HP. Start shopping for, at least, a 3:1 rear-end. Many Mustangers are looking to swap out their 7.5 rear for an 8" or 9" when they go to a V8. Be on the look out. A 7.5 rear end will be fine for you for quite awhile.

FInally, spend some time searching for wrecking yards in your area as well as machine shops that will take an interest in your project. Using recycled parts is cost effective.

Keep it coming.

Adios, David
 
CZLN6":30yrwexk said:
Howdy Back Carson and All:

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if you are in a bit of shock with the info you've gotten so far. It is a bit to take in all at once. So, let's back up a bit. 1. Keep reading, learning and planning. Include a shop manual for a 1967 Mustang and memorize it, or, at least refer to it often.

Next spend your time and money getting to know what you have and how to get the most out of it. That's the place to really start learning. Get to know how your Autolite 1100 carb with its Spark Control Valve (SCV) works with your Load-O-Matic (LoM) distributor. At this point you should probably invest in a timing light and a vacuum gauge. I haven't ask yet what tools and equipment you have? Finish your stock tune up with adding an additional 5 degrees of initial advance over stock spec. Spend your money wisely.

FYI- After about 1970, the 200 and 250 heads are the same. BUt you will want a later model head for future development. Preferably a 1978 or later head.

Increasing CR, improving valve flow and bigger exhaust valves go hand-in-hand when it is time for a valve job. That's also where buying a late model head and building it so you will have it ready to swap on with the least amount of down time.

Upgrading to a DuraSpark II ignition system will go hand-in-hand with a later model carb upgrade. They, the carb and distributor, have to match in terms of vacuum source and advance mechanism. IF you swap a DS II ignition system into an Autolite 1100 carb neither will work as designed. The distributor wants a Ported Vacuum source for vacuum advance and the carb is offering a load sensitive vacuum signal designed to work with the SCV in the LoM distributor.

FYI- the 2.83:1 rear-end ratio will never feel "sporty". Even with 120 HP. Start shopping for, at least, a 3:1 rear-end. Many Mustangers are looking to swap out their 7.5 rear for an 8" or 9" when they go to a V8. Be on the look out. A 7.5 rear end will be fine for you for quite awhile.

FInally, spend some time searching for wrecking yards in your area as well as machine shops that will take an interest in your project. Using recycled parts is cost effective.

Keep it coming.

Adios, David
Click to expand...


Hi David thanks for the pointers. I actually have the holly 1940 carb on my car so far but once I get to the head work I'll be going 2bbl. I'll probably get the Webber carb along with a dsll ignition like what everyone recommends.

The tools I have are the typical DYI tools. However I'm in auto shop so I have a better array of equipment to use there.

Thanks for the tips. Very excited to start. Should I begin with getting an exhaust set up first? I have about $500 ready.


Thanks,
Carson
 
Howdy Back;

FYI- your Holley #1940 is not the original carb for your engine. That would be an Autolite 1100. The 1940 is a Service Replacement carb that FoMoCo used after Autolite ceased to exist. It's probably not a big deal since you plan to upgrade to a better carb later. The 1940 is not compatible with the DS II.

If you plan to change to a DS II ignition you should consider upgrading to a late model carb that will compliment it with a correct vacuum signal. A good companion carb and a slight upgrade is an Autolite 1101 from a '69 Mustang with a 250 engine. It is almost a direct bolt-on. Another interim carb choice would be a Carter YF from a '70 and up FoMoCo 200. A Carter YF will take some adapting. Both have a ported vacuum source to sync with the DS II distributor.

Why did you choose a Weber carb? FYI- They are comparatively expensive and finicky to tune.

IIWIYS and had $500 to put toward changes for now and looking toward the future, I would choose a turbo type muffler with a 2" inlet and outlet. Possibly a 2" head pipe and tail pipe as well. That will give a slight performance increase, a pleasant, more powerful sound and be in place for when it is time for a header. This can probably be done for less than the cost of a header. A header, without supporting upgrades, will not yeald much of a power increase. They do look cool, but that's about it.

I would put the remains of my $500 toward a late model head and start building a foundation for the future. Since you are in Shop Class you may be able to do the head as a shop project.

That's my two cents, for what it's worth.

Adios, David
 
CZLN6":2yndyi8b said:
Howdy Back;

FYI- your Holley #1940 is not the original carb for your engine. That would be an Autolite 1100. The 1940 is a Service Replacement carb that FoMoCo used after Autolite ceased to exist. It's probably not a big deal since you plan to upgrade to a better carb later. The 1940 is not compatible with the DS II.

If you plan to change to a DS II ignition you should consider upgrading to a late model carb that will compliment it with a correct vacuum signal. A good companion carb and a slight upgrade is an Autolite 1101 from a '69 Mustang with a 250 engine. It is almost a direct bolt-on. Another interim carb choice would be a Carter YF from a '70 and up FoMoCo 200. A Carter YF will take some adapting. Both have a ported vacuum source to sync with the DS II distributor.

Why did you choose a Weber carb? FYI- They are comparatively expensive and finicky to tune.

IIWIYS and had $500 to put toward changes for now and looking toward the future, I would choose a turbo type muffler with a 2" inlet and outlet. Possibly a 2" head pipe and tail pipe as well. That will give a slight performance increase, a pleasant, more powerful sound and be in place for when it is time for a header. This can probably be done for less than the cost of a header. A header, without supporting upgrades, will not yeald much of a power increase. They do look cool, but that's about it.

I would put the remains of my $500 toward a late model head and start building a foundation for the future. Since you are in Shop Class you may be able to do the head as a shop project.

That's my two cents, for what it's worth.

Adios, David
Click to expand...


Hi David. Since I'm shooting for a 2bbl and the Weber carb had the progressive system were the 2nd barrel opens up when needed I thought that was a nice feature. Any recommendations for a good 2bbl along with the dsll in your opinion? I of course will be putting the better head along with it.

For the exhaust I will be throwing out all the stock stuff and redoing the whole thing. Thanks for the tip on turbo mufflers, sparked my interest on them and seem to make the best bang for your buck if I'm correct. I'll be most likely getting the speed daddy header that bubba recommended instead of long tubes. They're just out of budget and fitting will be a hassle.

Thanks again for all the help
 
"...I'm shooting for a 2bbl and the Weber carb (that) had the progressive system..."
Ahhh, like that better. Some call that the pinto or Holley 5200 carb (yes, it IS a 'weber').
 
Actually, it depends on the 1940 as to whether or not it is compatible with the DSII. I have a non-SCV version of the 1940 out in the garage.
 
Howdy Bob and All:

Yes, the Holley 1940 was cloned to be a Service Replacement for every FoMoCo engine that originally came with an Autolite carb- for every model year until about 1970 when FoMoCo six cylinder engines switched to Carter carbs.

So your 1940 carb, with no SCV, could be for a '68 -'69 200 (Or a down-sized CalEm 200 from '66 -'67). It is nearly impossible to tell one 1940 from another without a very close inspection. There are several topic threads on here that explore to 2 stage 2Vs, both good and bad. Search them out.

Carson- the two stage 2 barrel Weber carbs on American cars was known as the Holley 5200. Which Weber 2 stage carb are you looking at? Autolite 2100s and Holley 2300s are excellent two barrels to consider for use on a modified head. Holleys 2300s are available new and are supported for parts by many outlets- Bill (wsa111) on the forum is the 2300 tuning master. He's the guy to see about getting your DuraSpark II recurved too. Autolite 2100s are no longer in production but are readily available and may be the easiest, ever, carb to work on an they were available in many sizes.

Adios, David
 
CZLN6":1hxfwrfr said:
Howdy Bob and All:

Yes, the Holley 1940 was cloned to be a Service Replacement for every FoMoCo engine that originally came with an Autolite carb- for every model year until about 1970 when FoMoCo six cylinder engines switched to Carter carbs.

So your 1940 carb, with no SCV, could be for a '68 -'69 200 (Or a down-sized CalEm 200 from '66 -'67). It is nearly impossible to tell one 1940 from another without a very close inspection. There are several topic threads on here that explore to 2 stage 2Vs, both good and bad. Search them out.

Carson- the two stage 2 barrel Weber carbs on American cars was known as the Holley 5200. Which Weber 2 stage carb are you looking at? Autolite 2100s and Holley 2300s are excellent two barrels to consider for use on a modified head. Holleys 2300s are available new and are supported for parts by many outlets- Bill (wsa111) on the forum is the 2300 tuning master. He's the guy to see about getting your DuraSpark II recurved too. Autolite 2100s are no longer in production but are readily available and may be the easiest, ever, carb to work on an they were available in many sizes.

Adios, David
Click to expand...

Hi David thanks. I'll look into those carbs, most likely the holley. Thanks for tips it is appreciated!

Carson
 
X2 David the only change with the Autolite carb is install replaceable screw in jets under the power valve. Yes you can use Holley power valves in the 2100.
Anyone using the 2100 carb should run a WOT A/F ratio check. 12.8-13.1 is the best, but 12.5 is also ok.
 
It was already mentioned, but it bears repeating. That rear end is really killing your performance. That and the auto trans.

If it were me, with your budget, I would find a Fox body 8.8 rear with factory 3:55’s installed and it will come with an LSD (posi)

Also a T5 trans from the same car. Those 2 things alone will give you more seat of the pants acceleration than anything. You will have to buy a T-5 adapter and a pedal set/linkage and possibly modify the driveshaft to make it all work. The headers and carb will be a good addition as well. All of these things can be done within your 2K budget of you go with good used parts.

Ron
 
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