Weber DCOE?

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Omoitsurugi
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Weber DCOE?

Post #1 by Omoitsurugi » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:03 am

As I'm still sitting in Spain waiting to get my mustang back in my hands, I'm trying to plan out my build and wanting to keep my stock engine.

I know one thing for sure, I'll be saving up money to hopefully get an aluminum head from vintage in lines either for the next production or the one after (even a second hand one if possible).

As I'm researching I'm thinking about doing a side draft carb set up and was wondering if anyone has had experience dealing with them on the 200? What kind of power can I expect from a triple carb Weber DCOE set up? I'm just trying to good street able daily set up that I can occasionally take to the track.

Until I get a alum head I may pick up a 250 or another 200 head and modify and machine it to accept a custom intake manifold to support the webers.

Thanks,
Andrew

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cr_bobcat
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Re: Weber DCOE?

Post #2 by cr_bobcat » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:08 am

I've seen pictures but haven't seen one in action. I've also loved the look of that configuration
Block: Stock C8 Block/pistons, C9-M head, 1.75/1.5 valves, dual spring, 1.65 RAU Rockers, port divider, direct mount Holley 4412-500, HEI w/20* advance, manifold vac, dual-out Arvinode exhaust, Clay Smith 264/274 110* installed w/ 4* advance, adjustable dual chain timing, C4 w/ shift kit, 3.20 (TBC) rear ratio, 9.44 SCR / 7.97 DCR

Build that Six with parts from http://www.vintageinlines.com

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Re: Weber DCOE?

Post #3 by CNC-Dude » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:39 am

I offer several DCOE side draft intakes for other inline engines I've designed and manufacture, and the DCOE carbs are very tuneable and reliable. I think you'll enjoy them.
Image

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chad
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SU, Solex, Keihin, DCOE, Mikuni, Carter (YH)

Post #4 by chad » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:44 pm

"...my stock engine..."
every 6 mo or so I C a thread on here bout multis (even though the log gets wacked
the rest of the engine can "stay stock").
U Tube has several 3, 4 and 6 carb side drafts on i6. The venerable AK even did some.
The shock tower's close & exhaust is over there too so design/choose carefully...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q ... 8745568140

(hope the above came out, still needs 1 on each end a` la` GT6)
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Weber DCOE?

Post #5 by gb500 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:49 pm

search 'knott' on this forum.

heres his youtube vid.

full race + triple webers -reputedly 280 hp from a 170.in australia

paul knott was the original owner in New south wales, Australia. now sold on to another Victoria , Australia dude.

paul knotts youtube vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QTgb4knAuI

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Omoitsurugi
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Re: Weber DCOE?

Post #6 by Omoitsurugi » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:20 am

CNC-Dude wrote:I offer several DCOE side draft intakes for other inline engines I've designed and manufacture, and the DCOE carbs are very tuneable and reliable. I think you'll enjoy them.


CNC-Dude

Eventually when i'm getting to the point of chopping up a head or i've got myself a Alum head I may contact you! Right now this is planning, gathering money and waiting for my block to be rebuilt (once I get the money for that). I'm excited to learn more about these and start buying parts.


chad wrote:"...my stock engine..."
every 6 mo or so I C a thread on here bout multis (even though the log gets wacked
the rest of the engine can "stay stock").
U Tube has several 3, 4 and 6 carb side drafts on i6. The venerable AK even did some.
The shock tower's close & exhaust is over there too so design/choose carefully...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q ... 8745568140

(hope the above came out, still needs 1 on each end a` la` GT6)


Chad,

The plan isn't to keep the engine itself stock, just numbers matching. I'll be building up the bottom end when I get it rebuilt here soon. Part of the plan is forged pistons, better cam, bored .30 over... and some more. from what i've been reading in the falcon performance book, it seems doable.

Overall the plan is to keep the car numbers matching.

gb500 wrote:search 'knott' on this forum.

heres his youtube vid.

full race + triple webers -reputedly 280 hp from a 170.in australia

paul knott was the original owner in New south wales, Australia. now sold on to another Victoria , Australia dude.

paul knotts youtube vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QTgb4knAuI


gb500,

Oh man, I saw a picture of that engine while just searching on google, That was kinda the plan. either side draft over the top like that or turbo'd... I think building a turbo would be a lot of work, and may be out of my skill (right now). I'm still learning and hopefully i can make 200-300 hp from an N/A streetable build.

cr_bobcat wrote:I've seen pictures but haven't seen one in action. I've also loved the look of that configuration


Bobcat,

Me too, I've seen them mostly on 4 cylinder imports, honda/toyota, the apparently also use motorcylce carbs on some too. seen a few on 6 cyl race engines or V8's like Ken Block's Hoonicorn v1 (I know they're stacks and probalby just individual efi(?) throttle bodies). Getting excited, haha.

:beer: Cheers All,
Andrew

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Re: Weber DCOE?

Post #7 by cr_bobcat » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:29 am

Here is another interesting approach. Not period correct, but pretty slick.

http://www.v-performance.com/products/air_fuel.html
Block: Stock C8 Block/pistons, C9-M head, 1.75/1.5 valves, dual spring, 1.65 RAU Rockers, port divider, direct mount Holley 4412-500, HEI w/20* advance, manifold vac, dual-out Arvinode exhaust, Clay Smith 264/274 110* installed w/ 4* advance, adjustable dual chain timing, C4 w/ shift kit, 3.20 (TBC) rear ratio, 9.44 SCR / 7.97 DCR

Build that Six with parts from http://www.vintageinlines.com

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chad
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13 yrs of testing

Post #8 by chad » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:38 pm

the inherent operation/design really has it (Mukuni / Keihn) over the traditional weber side draft.
stickin em in that space is easier too.
Now the rest? not so easy...
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Weber DCOE?

Post #9 by Omoitsurugi » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:56 am

cr_bobcat wrote:Here is another interesting approach. Not period correct, but pretty slick.

http://www.v-performance.com/products/air_fuel.html


Interesting, all single barrel carbs? looks like either to get the same effect as the DCOE i'd have to use 6? haha, sounds fun?!

In a serious note, it looks to be doable. I could just use 3 carbs and save some money, but i like the look of 6 individual throttle bodies, but it's something to consider!

chad wrote:the inherent operation/design really has it (Mukuni / Keihn) over the traditional weber side draft.
stickin em in that space is easier too.
Now the rest? not so easy...


the rest is what makes it more difficult, 3 carbs would be one thing, but getting 6 individual carbs to work together! Wow, I'll have to get a carb wizard to work on that!

Thanks for the ideas! keep em coming!
-Andrew

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3 to 8 'cycle carbs - automotive app

Post #10 by chad » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:51 am

http://www.v-performance.com/products/air_fuel.html[/quote]
like the look of 6 individual throttle bodies, but it's something to consider!
chad wrote:the inherent operation/design really has it (Mukuni / Keihn) over the traditional weber side draft.
stickin em in that space is easier too.
Now the rest? not so easy...

the rest is what makes it more difficult, 3 carbs would be one thing, but getting 6 individual carbs to work together! Wow, I'll have to get a carb wizard to work on that!
Thanks for the ideas! keep em coming!
-Andrew[/quote]
"The rest" has been covered in multiple threads over the yrs here (mounting, intake, tuning, but linkage - not so much).
Don't forget - these carbs use similar technology but fewer parts to carbs we all know'n love.
The repost of my link has 6 ($3K) and 8 Mukuni automotive adaptations. The vid (cited but not linked) has 6 Keihns by a fella who's visited here & responded to our Qs.

Again, all NOT new...pay homage to AK and the early innovators...
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Weber DCOE?

Post #11 by slowhoon » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:59 am

Hi,

I own and race a car with a 170 running a worked 2V head with triple Weber 45 DCOEs. Not a Falcon/Mustang mind you - here's a picture to give you an idea: http://www.groundsky.co.nz/index.php?Ac ... eID=505488

Currently it's got a very mild cam in it (specs unknown - it was a cheap purchase of a complete block) and is putting out roughly 92 kilowatts at the rear wheels. Calculating back at an assumed 10% frictional loss (straight cut gearbox) and converting to horsepower gets me to 140hp.

A good friend, who I bought the car off several years back, had a much better cam in it and on 40 DCOE Webers got 188hp at 6,000 rpm on an accurate engine dyno. The only thing holding it back at the time was the carbs (i.e. 45 DCOEs would have allowed more revs and horses). That engine unfortunately eventually liberated number 5 piston out the side of the block (we suspect from using standard rod bolts instead of the ARP ones that were supposed to be in there!).

I bought a number of parts off Classic Inlines over the years prior to Mike W's passing and realized at the end of 2017 that I've had some of those parts for over 10 years, so am planning to get a hot motor built this year and am aiming for 200-220 hp.

Putting triple 45s on a 200 would produce better results - amongst other things the 2V head is designed for a bigger cylinder bore than the 170 has, so my engine suffers losses through the combustion chambers being wider than the pistons. You'll also have the benefit of a 7 bearing bottom end so will be able to rev the living daylights out of the engine! Granted you won't be running a 2V head, but the aluminium (sorry, aluminum) head is eminently comparable with the 2V.

My 2 cents worth regarding Japanese motorbike carbs: you may well be on your own with tuning the engine, as there isn't necessarily the jets etc. available or the knowledge of tuning them that there is with Webers.

For linkages, Redline Performance produce all sorts of bits and pieces - I had a Weber specialist a few years ago assemble a kit that basically joins all the butterfly spindles together and these are apparently Redline parts. They also seem to be standard on many Dellorto DHLA carbs (before Dellorto stopped making them).

I'm a few hours away from leaving for a race meeting this coming weekend with the car and just happened to see this post - if you like I could try and upload some more useful picture of the carb assembly when I return (although I might not have posted enough messages to the forum yet to get that privilege!).

Cheers,
Alan.

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Re: Weber DCOE?

Post #12 by Omoitsurugi » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:54 am

slowhoon wrote:Hi,

I own and race a car with a 170 running a worked 2V head with triple Weber 45 DCOEs. Not a Falcon/Mustang mind you - here's a picture to give you an idea: http://www.groundsky.co.nz/index.php?Ac ... eID=505488

Currently it's got a very mild cam in it (specs unknown - it was a cheap purchase of a complete block) and is putting out roughly 92 kilowatts at the rear wheels. Calculating back at an assumed 10% frictional loss (straight cut gearbox) and converting to horsepower gets me to 140hp.

A good friend, who I bought the car off several years back, had a much better cam in it and on 40 DCOE Webers got 188hp at 6,000 rpm on an accurate engine dyno. The only thing holding it back at the time was the carbs (i.e. 45 DCOEs would have allowed more revs and horses). That engine unfortunately eventually liberated number 5 piston out the side of the block (we suspect from using standard rod bolts instead of the ARP ones that were supposed to be in there!).

I bought a number of parts off Classic Inlines over the years prior to Mike W's passing and realized at the end of 2017 that I've had some of those parts for over 10 years, so am planning to get a hot motor built this year and am aiming for 200-220 hp.

Putting triple 45s on a 200 would produce better results - amongst other things the 2V head is designed for a bigger cylinder bore than the 170 has, so my engine suffers losses through the combustion chambers being wider than the pistons. You'll also have the benefit of a 7 bearing bottom end so will be able to rev the living daylights out of the engine! Granted you won't be running a 2V head, but the aluminium (sorry, aluminum) head is eminently comparable with the 2V.

My 2 cents worth regarding Japanese motorbike carbs: you may well be on your own with tuning the engine, as there isn't necessarily the jets etc. available or the knowledge of tuning them that there is with Webers.

For linkages, Redline Performance produce all sorts of bits and pieces - I had a Weber specialist a few years ago assemble a kit that basically joins all the butterfly spindles together and these are apparently Redline parts. They also seem to be standard on many Dellorto DHLA carbs (before Dellorto stopped making them).

I'm a few hours away from leaving for a race meeting this coming weekend with the car and just happened to see this post - if you like I could try and upload some more useful picture of the carb assembly when I return (although I might not have posted enough messages to the forum yet to get that privilege!).

Cheers,
Alan.



Alan,

With the japanese motorbike carbs, that was exactly my thought. I'd have to pretty much build something completely from the ground up with them, tuning would be almost impossible. with the Weber's i'd have more options on getting it exactly right, there's books out there on how to get them working properly, etc...

I'd love to see more of your engine, and pick your brain more. I wish i could get my hands on a 2v head at least until i could afford a alum one. I still have the stock head, the plan was to get another stock head and try to modify that and shave off the intake manifold build a new one and tap the head of the "stock head" the reason for the kinda round about way is cuase my engine is completely numbers matching, i'd like to be able to just swap the head for the most part if i ever wanted to (when i hand it down to my daughter, etc...)

Really excited you replied because (selfish reasons), at least ask for some pictures to help with my planning. Your track toy looks like a fun project!

Cheers,
Andrew :beer:

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Re: Weber DCOE?

Post #13 by rocklord » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:46 am

There are websites in England that show how to use motorcycle carbs in automobiles.
http://www.altiss.com/ThrottleBodies.html

http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=103402

http://www.danstengineering.co.uk/

Motorcycle carbs are similar to SUs in that they are variable venturi.
Motorcycle carbs from 600cc to 1000cc engines are large enough to run on our 6 cylinders; some motorcycle engines redline to 12,000 rpm, so these carbs will work on an engine that only redlines to 6,000 rpm.

Here's some you tube videos showing a 69 Mustang with a 200 6cyl running Keihin bike carbs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWM5-xZ1q0M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIeh3Bf_8sQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyTHu3NkQIE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-EVAnY7WKQ

Hope this helps.
Dan

Currently Own
1965 Mustang, 200CID, 3Spd
1964 Corvair Coupe, 164CID, 140HP, 4Spd
1961 Corvair Lakewood wagon, 145CID, 80HP, 2Spd Powerglide Auto.
2017 BMW X3, 3.0L Dual Turbo, 300HP, 8-Spd Auto

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Re: Weber DCOE?

Post #14 by chad » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:06 am

Thanks for the links rocky!
I was introduced to Ron Ward here.
Great stuff!
Didn't a few "multies" post back'n forth here a yr or so ago?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Weber DCOE?

Post #15 by Omoitsurugi » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:29 am

rocklord wrote:There are websites in England that show how to use motorcycle carbs in automobiles.
http://www.altiss.com/ThrottleBodies.html

http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=103402

http://www.danstengineering.co.uk/

Motorcycle carbs are similar to SUs in that they are variable venturi.
Motorcycle carbs from 600cc to 1000cc engines are large enough to run on our 6 cylinders; some motorcycle engines redline to 12,000 rpm, so these carbs will work on an engine that only redlines to 6,000 rpm.

Here's some you tube videos showing a 69 Mustang with a 200 6cyl running Keihin bike carbs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWM5-xZ1q0M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIeh3Bf_8sQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyTHu3NkQIE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-EVAnY7WKQ

Hope this helps.


Interesting reads and videos. I guess if i can find some equal but cheap bike carbs I may do the same. Something to consider as I plan out this build. First step new head after the block rebuild, if i can find one :D.

Thanks everyone,
It really helps me out looking and reading this all!


-Andrew

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Re: Weber DCOE?

Post #16 by chad » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:20 am

"...First step new head after the block rebuild, if i can find one :D. ..."
May B 1 step B4 that: check out some Brit (C my last post'n others) & Oz (lynx, the 2v) heads that are more ready for these carbs.

The linkage & intakes R already worked out...
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Weber DCOE?

Post #17 by slowhoon » Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:30 am

Omoitsurugi wrote:Alan,

With the japanese motorbike carbs, that was exactly my thought. I'd have to pretty much build something completely from the ground up with them, tuning would be almost impossible. with the Weber's i'd have more options on getting it exactly right, there's books out there on how to get them working properly, etc...

I'd love to see more of your engine, and pick your brain more. I wish i could get my hands on a 2v head at least until i could afford a alum one. I still have the stock head, the plan was to get another stock head and try to modify that and shave off the intake manifold build a new one and tap the head of the "stock head" the reason for the kinda round about way is cuase my engine is completely numbers matching, i'd like to be able to just swap the head for the most part if i ever wanted to (when i hand it down to my daughter, etc...)

Really excited you replied because (selfish reasons), at least ask for some pictures to help with my planning. Your track toy looks like a fun project!

Cheers,
Andrew :beer:



Hi Andrew,

Okay, so I'm back from the racing thing now. Before I go any further I should make it clear that I can take next to no credit for this car (called the Triford Special) - it was built by a couple of guys in 1972 and restored by my friend that owned it before me. It has had plenty of owners in the intervening years (some of whom I have met). It is now considered a historic race car here in New Zealand - just not as historic as something like a Formula 5000!

Originally it had a log manifold head with the log cut off and inlet tracts/flanges welded on. This head (and chromed valve cover with offset oil filler hole) disappeared from the car in the late 1970s but by pure chance we found it advertised in a buy/sell/exchange newspaper a few years ago. The head may not be completely original (inasmuch as the inlet tracts may have been cut off one head and welded onto another one and the vacuum take off on number 6 inlet is not original) but the valve cover is definitely the genuine article.

Anyway, here's a shot of the carbs that are currently on the car:
A.jpg


Yeah, it's all a bit grubby - this is no show pony under the hood.

Here's a close up of the linkage between the left carb and centre (center) carb:
F.jpg


Next up are the 40DCOE Webers that were on the Triford when I bought it. Note the more traditional style linkage arrangement, which apparently is harder to synchronize at throttle positions between idle and full throttle because there may well be any number of components that are not perfectly straight/even/unworn etc. At least this is what the Weber expert told me...
Aa.jpg


Here is what we believe to be the original head (I have photos taken in 1972 of the original build and while they are not as clear as the ones I'm posting, they do show the head looking very much like this and in far better condition):
H.jpg

I.jpg

J.jpg

M.jpg


I've mentioned the valve cover and not shown it - so here it is with the engine on a stand:
N.jpg


I hope this helps or at the very least entertains!

Cheers,
Alan.
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Re: Weber DCOE?

Post #18 by bubba22349 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:47 am

:beer: very interesting thank you Alan for all the photos and details! :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Weber DCOE?

Post #19 by Omoitsurugi » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:00 am

slowhoon wrote:
Omoitsurugi wrote:Alan,

With the japanese motorbike carbs, that was exactly my thought. I'd have to pretty much build something completely from the ground up with them, tuning would be almost impossible. with the Weber's i'd have more options on getting it exactly right, there's books out there on how to get them working properly, etc...

I'd love to see more of your engine, and pick your brain more. I wish i could get my hands on a 2v head at least until i could afford a alum one. I still have the stock head, the plan was to get another stock head and try to modify that and shave off the intake manifold build a new one and tap the head of the "stock head" the reason for the kinda round about way is cuase my engine is completely numbers matching, i'd like to be able to just swap the head for the most part if i ever wanted to (when i hand it down to my daughter, etc...)

Really excited you replied because (selfish reasons), at least ask for some pictures to help with my planning. Your track toy looks like a fun project!

Cheers,
Andrew :beer:



Hi Andrew,

Okay, so I'm back from the racing thing now. Before I go any further I should make it clear that I can take next to no credit for this car (called the Triford Special) - it was built by a couple of guys in 1972 and restored by my friend that owned it before me. It has had plenty of owners in the intervening years (some of whom I have met). It is now considered a historic race car here in New Zealand - just not as historic as something like a Formula 5000!

Originally it had a log manifold head with the log cut off and inlet tracts/flanges welded on. This head (and chromed valve cover with offset oil filler hole) disappeared from the car in the late 1970s but by pure chance we found it advertised in a buy/sell/exchange newspaper a few years ago. The head may not be completely original (inasmuch as the inlet tracts may have been cut off one head and welded onto another one and the vacuum take off on number 6 inlet is not original) but the valve cover is definitely the genuine article.

Anyway, here's a shot of the carbs that are currently on the car:
A.jpg

Yeah, it's all a bit grubby - this is no show pony under the hood.

Here's a close up of the linkage between the left carb and centre (center) carb:
F.jpg

Next up are the 40DCOE Webers that were on the Triford when I bought it. Note the more traditional style linkage arrangement, which apparently is harder to synchronize at throttle positions between idle and full throttle because there may well be any number of components that are not perfectly straight/even/unworn etc. At least this is what the Weber expert told me...
Aa.jpg

Here is what we believe to be the original head (I have photos taken in 1972 of the original build and while they are not as clear as the ones I'm posting, they do show the head looking very much like this and in far better condition):
H.jpg
I.jpg
J.jpg
M.jpg

I've mentioned the valve cover and not shown it - so here it is with the engine on a stand:
N.jpg

I hope this helps or at the very least entertains!

Cheers,
Alan.


Wow, Alan, wow! That's really awesome, gives me a lot of ideas until I can get a hold of an aluminum head.

I'd love to go out there and see a historic race car like that in person! However that's in the far future.

Also no worries on the engine looking grubby, I totally understand it not being a show car. It's used, it's fun, it serves a purpose other than looking pretty!

I'm gonna try and get another log head and modify that instead of my original which is still on the engine. I'll probably cut off the log and either weld or make a custom removable intake manifold.

Thanks again for the pictures! Cheers!
- Andrew

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chad
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(2, 3) 4 & 6 carbs

Post #20 by chad » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:21 am

Thanks so much for pic
AND
story! white intake looks alill like the Lynx (somewhat avail Down Under).
Red: many of us DYI could do...a machine shop (or equip.) would assist quite nicely!
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Weber DCOE?

Post #21 by gb500 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:19 pm

following on from my post here
viewtopic.php?p=599047#p599047


about paul knotts falcon 170 with triple DCOE here are the pics of the most recent manifold - has changed out the blue flex hose connectors for bent shiny manifold inlets .
two photos from different times : note bellmouth changes and heat shield - but with same inlet manifolds

Image


Image

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Omoitsurugi
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Re: Weber DCOE?

Post #22 by Omoitsurugi » Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:10 am

slowhoon wrote:
Omoitsurugi wrote:Alan,

With the japanese motorbike carbs, that was exactly my thought. I'd have to pretty much build something completely from the ground up with them, tuning would be almost impossible. with the Weber's i'd have more options on getting it exactly right, there's books out there on how to get them working properly, etc...

I'd love to see more of your engine, and pick your brain more. I wish i could get my hands on a 2v head at least until i could afford a alum one. I still have the stock head, the plan was to get another stock head and try to modify that and shave off the intake manifold build a new one and tap the head of the "stock head" the reason for the kinda round about way is cuase my engine is completely numbers matching, i'd like to be able to just swap the head for the most part if i ever wanted to (when i hand it down to my daughter, etc...)

Really excited you replied because (selfish reasons), at least ask for some pictures to help with my planning. Your track toy looks like a fun project!

Cheers,
Andrew :beer:



Hi Andrew,

Okay, so I'm back from the racing thing now. Before I go any further I should make it clear that I can take next to no credit for this car (called the Triford Special) - it was built by a couple of guys in 1972 and restored by my friend that owned it before me. It has had plenty of owners in the intervening years (some of whom I have met). It is now considered a historic race car here in New Zealand - just not as historic as something like a Formula 5000!

Originally it had a log manifold head with the log cut off and inlet tracts/flanges welded on. This head (and chromed valve cover with offset oil filler hole) disappeared from the car in the late 1970s but by pure chance we found it advertised in a buy/sell/exchange newspaper a few years ago. The head may not be completely original (inasmuch as the inlet tracts may have been cut off one head and welded onto another one and the vacuum take off on number 6 inlet is not original) but the valve cover is definitely the genuine article.

Anyway, here's a shot of the carbs that are currently on the car:
A.jpg

Yeah, it's all a bit grubby - this is no show pony under the hood.

Here's a close up of the linkage between the left carb and centre (center) carb:
F.jpg

Next up are the 40DCOE Webers that were on the Triford when I bought it. Note the more traditional style linkage arrangement, which apparently is harder to synchronize at throttle positions between idle and full throttle because there may well be any number of components that are not perfectly straight/even/unworn etc. At least this is what the Weber expert told me...
Aa.jpg

Here is what we believe to be the original head (I have photos taken in 1972 of the original build and while they are not as clear as the ones I'm posting, they do show the head looking very much like this and in far better condition):
H.jpg
I.jpg
J.jpg
M.jpg

I've mentioned the valve cover and not shown it - so here it is with the engine on a stand:
N.jpg

I hope this helps or at the very least entertains!

Cheers,
Alan.


Alan,

Do you know how much power yours is putting to the wheels?

Thanks again,
Andrew

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Re: Weber DCOE?

Post #23 by slowhoon » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:27 am

Alan,

Do you know how much power yours is putting to the wheels?

Thanks again,
Andrew.

--------------
Andrew,

About 92 kilowatts, which according to the internet is 123 horsepower (at 5200rpm).

Alan.

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Re: Weber DCOE?

Post #24 by Omoitsurugi » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:36 am

slowhoon wrote:Alan,

Do you know how much power yours is putting to the wheels?

Thanks again,
Andrew.

--------------
Andrew,

About 92 kilowatts, which according to the internet is 123 horsepower (at 5200rpm).

Alan.



Alan,

Thanks for the quick response!

-Andrew

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chad
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Re: Weber DCOE?

Post #25 by chad » Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:30 pm

Alan - none of the 8 pic came out on my screen in (is it?) post #21.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Weber DCOE?

Post #26 by Omoitsurugi » Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:11 am

chad wrote:Alan - none of the 8 pic came out on my screen in (is it?) post #21.


Chad,

Alan's posts #11 and #17, #11 has pictures of the Race Car itself on there and you can see the side drafts coming out of the side of the car. And #17 Has images of just the engine, out of the body. It's actually a pretty beautiful piece.

Just make sure you're logged in when trying to look at the pictures? Hope that helps.

- Andrew

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3 Weber DCOE

Post #27 by chad » Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:57 pm

thanks, sounds like repeats.
Da best is utube interview/track vids!
Nice lill team there.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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