Suggested improvements to 170 Cylinder Head

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Reinking
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Suggested improvements to 170 Cylinder Head

Post #1 by Reinking » Tue May 15, 2018 11:16 pm

New owner of a 63 Falcon Futura Convertable and am going to need to pull the head since the previous owner broke several manifold bolts off. Any suggestions on options other than pulling the head to get the broken bolts out are appreciated. But, since I am probably going to need to pull the head, what improvements/modifications woul you suggest I make?

Thank you

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Re: Suggested improvements to 170 Cylinder Head

Post #2 by CZLN6 » Wed May 16, 2018 10:26 am

Howdy Reinking:

Check the casting number on the head, first. It is located on the top of the intake log, behind the carb hole. This number will verify which casting you are working with. IS your car an automatic or manual trans? Is the engine stock and original? What is the engine's condition? What is the elevation where you live? What is your intended use for this car?

If your engine is stock from the factory it will have a steel shim head gasket of .025" thickness. You will most likely have to replace it, because these gaskets are no longer available. Your replacement choices at approximately .050" thick. To maintain stock compression you will need to mill the head .025" to compensate for the difference.

Without knowing more, I'd suggest that you give the head a fresh valve job- including new valve seals and a 30 degree back-cut on the intake valves.

I'll be looking forward to hearing more details on your car. The more we know the more specific we can be in giving advice. Keep it coming.

Adios, David
co-author of the Falcon Performance Handbook
http://www.falcon6handbook.com/

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Re: Suggested improvements to 170 Cylinder Head

Post #3 by Reinking » Wed May 16, 2018 11:18 am

Thank you. Data plate indicates the car was produced 1/1963. Block and head appear to be original C3 date code on the block, revision E I believe. Will have to look on the top of the intake to get the number will post it tonight. With the exception of some replaced fuel lines and hoses all appears to be original. Autolite 1100 carb and all. I do have a question about the valve cover, no PCV, hose from air cleaner to a 1.25in tube on the driver side of the block. Cover only has oil filler hole and Ford in block letters facing the passenger side.

Ford-o-Matic 2 speed also appears to be original to the car. Need to drop the pan and see how it looks.

Engaging runs well with the exception of a bad exhaust manifold. Drives but a little sluggish, not sure if it is due to the breaks binding, transmission issue or other. No smoke not the tailpipe.

Had read about milling the head to accept the modern gaskets. Have seen some suggestions of taking even more off to increase compression.

Looking to be a daily driver for my son while in high school. Elevation is average, outside of St Louis. Have to deal with the temperature extrams we suffer here.

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Re: Suggested improvements to 170 Cylinder Head

Post #4 by ags290 » Wed May 16, 2018 12:30 pm

I understand being reluctant to pull the cylinder head. It really isn't that bad of a job and could give you and your son some under hood time together if you decide to tackle it. When I was in your shoes this is the path that I took for what it is worth.

If you want to try to extract the broken bolts on the car, I would recommend removing the exhaust manifold so you can see where the bolts are snapped and if there is any thread remaining outside of the block. You will need to replace the exhaust manifold gasket either way so the manifold will need to come loose regardless. Don't be surprised if you break other bolts in trying to remove the manifold. Use lots of penetrating oil, PB-Blaster, or whatever you prefer before trying to loosen the remaining intact bolts to minimize the chance of them breaking. Putting heat on them from a propane torch will also help, but be extremely careful about fire and fuel being in such close quarters.

For the broken bolts that remain, if there is any thread visible outside of the block the easiest thing to do is to thread a nut onto whatever threads you can and weld it to the stud. Then follow the same procedure with removing the intact bolts. For the bolts that are broken off flush, you will either have to try to weld a nut on flush with the block or drill them out. Again, use lots of penetrating oil, heat etc. I the key is to drill straight and slow. I would not recommend using a bolt extractor or "easy out". They are made of hardened steel which makes them inherently brittle. If you break the tool in the stuck bolt you will be in a world of hurt trying to drill through the broken tool. Ask me how I know. By the time that you buy the hardened drill bits, extractors, and chemicals, the $8.00 to $10.00 per broken bolt that the machine shop will charge to remove them for you will seem really cheap, not to mention the time and frustration.

Just my 2 cents.

Kevin
Kevin
Early 1965 Mustang with a 170

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chad
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getting a '63 170 into daily driver condition

Post #5 by chad » Wed May 16, 2018 12:41 pm

"...Elevation is average, outside of St Louis..."
yeah 500 ft where the rivers join up!
no PVC in '63, I'd say there's a 'draft tube' on thisun.

Luv 2 C any pic U can post 4 us!
"Just 1 VC hole" my, my, my - I can't even remember them!

anyway to weld a bolt on the exh stud piece that's left? if breakin more, grind em all off & just pull the manifold? then weld on nuts? lots of penetratin fluid soaked on 4 daze, then alot heat if still stuck (oxyiacetelyen is best but I've used a hand held butane torch - just takes longer. rock the nut forward'n back rather than just 'go fer broke' rotating counterclockwise?)

let me know if U wanna nother exh. manif (pay shipping only, frm MAss, see sig below) '68 170 so must B an upgrade (1 5/8 to 2 inches).

"...Data plate..."
indicates a rebuild. U don't mean casting numbers but an affixed information plate?
David's book (ur 1st respondent 2 this post) is used extensively by the i6 community, I'd recommend it (Matt @ vintige inlines dot com has 1 for U). While watin 4 delivery U may wanna click on the above big blue box with the crossed screwdriver'n wrench. Here R tools to ID what U have (1st Q in aquiring a 50 y/o vehicle, all prts can B swapped out) maintain, upgrade increase performance (that's gas MPGs and pep) and much much more!

"...revision E I believe..."
can U state the casting code numbers in full on the pass. side (2 - 3 rows?) aft of the dwn tube of the exhaust?

W E L C O M E to the forum (best on the site) !!!
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Suggested improvements to 170 Cylinder Head

Post #6 by Reinking » Wed May 16, 2018 2:35 pm

Thank you both for the info, have done the easy out thing before and think I have reached an age where I will let the machine shop do it.

The data plate I was referring to is on the door, none in the engine.

I am interested in the manifold, will send you an email. Thank you!

I already plan to buy the book, sounds like a great resource.

I will post entire casting code for both engine and head tonight when I get home.

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Re: Suggested improvements to 170 Cylinder Head

Post #7 by Reinking » Wed May 16, 2018 6:16 pm

Engine code C3DE-6015-E
Head code C3DE-6090-D X8
Exhaust code C3DE-9430-A

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Re: Suggested improvements to 170 Cylinder Head

Post #8 by Reinking » Wed May 16, 2018 6:18 pm

Here are a couple of pics
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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Re: Suggested improvements to 170 Cylinder Head

Post #9 by chad » Wed May 16, 2018 6:29 pm

WoW !
Didn't think I'd get oneada car -a vert too. Nice!
We were just talkin bout those lill fadangles on the top of the frnt fenders.
Like some for da bronk! aaahahahahaaaaahaha ! Sweeeeeeet. :thumbup:
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Suggested improvements to 170 Cylinder Head

Post #10 by Reinking » Wed May 16, 2018 7:22 pm

Needs some love but it think will work out. Probably won’t pull the head for a week, son is going out of town.

Thanks for the info!

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Re: Suggested improvements to 170 Cylinder Head

Post #11 by bmbm40 » Wed May 16, 2018 9:37 pm

Yes that is a nice Falcon convertible to have your son is going to enjoy driving it around. One reason for feeling sluggish could be the 2 speed Fordomatic and/or the carb and distributor. Unless you intend to keep it stock I could recommend a c4. And yes the Handbook will be a valuable resource for you.
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

New guy? Get the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford six high performance parts from https://vintageinlines.com

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Re: Suggested improvements to 170 Cylinder Head

Post #12 by Reinking » Wed May 16, 2018 11:37 pm

I would like to switch to a C4 but I have discovered my son is a purist and wants it all original. We'll see how he feels once we det it on the road. If the tray needs a rebuild I think I will just buy a C4.

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Re: Suggested improvements to 170 Cylinder Head

Post #13 by drag-200stang » Thu May 17, 2018 8:44 am

Very nice cool car..Did the 63 have seat belts, if not you are going to need them if you ride with the top down. :wink:
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

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Re: Suggested improvements to 170 Cylinder Head

Post #14 by Reinking » Thu May 17, 2018 9:11 am

Yes, actually. Factory option ones were installed in front. The drivers side one is all dented up from the pins in the bottom of the bucket seat backs. Don’t know if anyone is making reproductions. Rear ones are installed must not sure if factory.

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Re: Suggested improvements to 170 Cylinder Head

Post #15 by 63falconATX » Thu May 17, 2018 9:46 am

Nice Car! I bought this 63.5 ht a few years ago. Same motor, carb and trans. Mine is a 3.25 out back. I took the word of the seller, took a chance and drove it from OKC to Austin. I took all secondary highways and back roads. It drove ok, sounded great and cruised 65mph like a champ. What it did do was stall , die and suffer from a stop or at low speed accelerations.

I got it home and the first thing I noticed was the lack of "squirt of gas" as called out in the first tip in the six performance handbook how to appendix.

I got an autolite 1100 rebuild kit from Mikes Carbs. Made damn sure all the circuits were clear. Took great care in reassembly and float, accel pump adjustment. New SCV in there as well. Then took to the dizzy. It came with pertronix and it was in good order but the vacuum canister seemed a bit hammered so I replaced it, plugs, wires cap and all. Its is important to understand the SCVs relationship to the dizzy. Make sure those circuits are clear in the carb and no vacuum leak.

I updated my timing light and vacuum gauge. I went back and forth between air/idle, idle and advance to reach best stable manifold vacuum. I did play with more advance but have settled at about 5-6 over spec about 17btdc initial advance. It runs like a top for what it is, bone stock 54yo ford six.

But the 200/aussie2v250/T5 combo will be ready soon.

Image

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improvements to '63

Post #16 by chad » Thu May 17, 2018 9:59 am

Reinking wrote:...Don’t know if anyone is making reproductions...

I getem at 'swap meets'. Those things R great. Buncha 'enthusiasts' w/spare parts.
Season is openin up right now... Cool tips, referrals for other full vehicles for restoration & prts.
Don't 4get to check the national and local Falcon presence on the net. Mustang stuff wrks (some 1 on here
has a ranchero frnt bench seat 4 me that'll fit).

It sounds like the Son is OK w/'period approximate' restoration. When U get 'the Handbook' you'll C a DS II ignition upgrade w/modern ('77+ I believe) distributor, post '68 carb (avoids the LOM/SCV feedback system) can improve MPGs and pep. (I think there may B a rheem job needed tho or dizzy gear/bottom mod 1st). I'd also suggest a modern cam or the higher ratio rockers. To me none of these are evident w/a look under the hood. Same w/the C4 (auto) or T5 (manual). I put in disc breaks up frnt & that along w/the transmission make it a modern daily driver (safety, safety in traffic) that keeps the 60s charm. Some go on (again results can show no glaring modernization) to improve suspensions'n other components. Two of the hi points on ur vehicle for me are the gun sights on top of the fenders near the hdlghts and the fuel pump! Priceless! :thumbup: 8)

ATX knows that these things R never done, we wanna get em "just right", then the nxt thing is waiting...

BTW: I been usin a 170 in an off rd work vehicle for over 30 yrs and it's plenty for any challenge presented. He'll B happy w/an i6 Ford. Great intro to motoring (maintenance, history, modification, driving, meeting other owners).
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Suggested improvements to 170 Cylinder Head

Post #17 by 63falconATX » Thu May 17, 2018 11:12 am

Btw, my post in retrospect might have sounded a little off topic. It was sort of a response to this thread as well as the dying under load and 1100 rebuilt tip threads. They just kind of ran together in my head.

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Re: Suggested improvements to 170 Cylinder Head

Post #18 by Reinking » Thu May 17, 2018 2:46 pm

Not a problem, glad to have any info. Plan on rebuilding the carb while the head is off. While I am thinking about it, what is the best gasket set out there. Need head and valve over as well as the oil pan.

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Re: Suggested improvements to 170 Cylinder Head

Post #19 by chad » Thu May 17, 2018 7:07 pm

some use Feldpro, a standard available part. They may have a 'kit' supplied 4 all the gaskets, C Matt at vintage inlines dot com for what he supplies. Going to him is nice cuz it supports our i6 community (he's a member here) is quality and reasonably priced.

Cork for the VC is now of rubber, 'glued' to the VC itself.

The head gasket (I assume U have the orig. 'steel shim' - the oe 1) is now better replaced by the rubber as well. As it is so much thicker U will loose oe spected compression ratio (even when figuring in the end result of the factory tq - 'compression thickness'). A mill pass on the surface to 'true up' any warps and a bit further to return compression ratio is recommended w/the 3-angle valve job'n valve back cut. Here's hopin U have "the Handbook" on order to review these procedures soon. The i6 hasa few different things abt it (as do many engines).

A pretty neat option 4 the pan (that I wish I didn't miss) is lill studs (I did use them on the head & found it such a more workable option) so that U can put on & tq easier than bolts - but every1 has personal preferences.

After U soak down those exh mani bolts'n get off the part let me know. I have ur address 4 shippin the replacement!
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

Reinking
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Re: Suggested improvements to 170 Cylinder Head

Post #20 by Reinking » Thu May 17, 2018 7:29 pm

Got the book in order. Will check with Vintage Inlines for gaskets, thank you. I have seen in a number of posts where people take .060 of the head to acomodiate the difference between to original gasket and the new gasket crush. I am assuming this amount would also slightly increase to compression ratio. If my math is correct, this would increase compression to around 9.2 to1. Is it worth/advisable to go more? Sorry, I’m sure it’s in the book but I ave never been good at waiting. :D

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Re: Suggested improvements to 170 Cylinder Head

Post #21 by bubba22349 » Fri May 18, 2018 8:34 am

Reinking wrote:Got the book in order. Will check with Vintage Inlines for gaskets, thank you. I have seen in a number of posts where people take .060 of the head to acomodiate the difference between to original gasket and the new gasket crush. I am assuming this amount would also slightly increase to compression ratio. If my math is correct, this would increase compression to around 9.2 to1. Is it worth/advisable to go more? Sorry, I’m sure it’s in the book but I ave never been good at waiting. :D


What grade of fuel you plan on running plus the locale weather condistions, altitude, and if you zero deck the block, will determine what the max compression ratio you can safely run.

Some other things you might consider depending on your goals for the car, are opening up the logs intake carb opening to 1 3/4 inch so you can run other later model carb's, maybe some hard valve seats to deal with the unleaded fuels we have today. And lastly opening up the valve bowls and some porting work if your plan for the car leads to a more performance build. Good luck on the 63 convertible looks like a good car to start with. :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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