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Is it possible to put a roller cam in a small block six?

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falcon_master
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Is it possible to put a roller cam in a small block six?

Post #1 by falcon_master » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:55 pm

Hey everyone. I’m about to ask another dumb curious question because a lot of my free time I spend imagining things to do to free up power and increase reliability. I know roller cams reduce friction therefore more power to go to wheels and less wear especially due to lower zinc in oil. Supposedly are blocks can’t take roller cams but I was thinking if I found a way to make a “spider” to hold the lifters in the right position couldn’t it be done. In the lifter hole modify the block or machine a piece to weld in or something to hold lifters properly and it should work right or am I missing something here. I think it’d be kinda cool to have a roller cam because later on I my modifications I can go to a much steeper ramp up than I can flat tapper and not worry about wiping out lobes as much
Junior year high school AFJROTC cadet and car enthusiast. Likes all things ford and engines of any company. 64 falcon 2dr sedan,144CI and 3spd column shift. estimated 124,000 miles. Resurrected after sitting outside for 18 years, In process fixing for use as daily driver YouTube channel for repairs coming soon. “Old cars may break but are never broken”-RCR

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Re: Is it possible to put a roller cam in a small block six?

Post #2 by 62Cometman » Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:42 pm

I think the fault here is 2 fold, firstly being no one makes a roller cam for these engines but that could be fixed relatively easy as most will custom make a cam if necessary. Big $$ but doable same with all the machine work all possible, very very expensive but possible. The second problem, and i mean this in the most sincere way possible, is why bother? You would dump more money in the engine to run a setup like that than you would ever get on return for power were talking in the potential of 6k or more easy for that kind of stepup and you can build the engine and buy the vintage inlines head for that. Theres nothing wrong with the cams being run and they still work effectively, if you want the engine to be the absolute best it can be then have at it but the rate of return will undoubtedly be rather disappointing for the money spent. However if you got the cash and the will power everyone here would absolutely love to see it done :beer:
1962 Mercury Comet 170 ci, Dagenham Trans, 2.83:1 7.25 rear.
She ain't fast but she's fun. 8)

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Re: Is it possible to put a roller cam in a small block six?

Post #3 by StarDiero75 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:53 pm

Zinc doesn't wear the engine by the way, zinc acts as a cushion. New cars are run with zinc as break in stuff but the EPA doesn't like it so they design them to where you don't need zinc. Just thought I'd let you know.

But like cometman said, if you got money and time, do it man. While you're at it, design a cheaper DOHC setup for a 200. There's an Australian guy who does that. If you want to see a best of a 200, watch this

https://youtu.be/qDqAxiJKBO8

You will enjoy it if you want to see what can be done with these engines. This is a DOHC, dual spark plug, crossflow, hemi head. It's beautiful
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200 and 3.03 column shift, 8" rear 2.8 (Yes I know the gearing sucks), weber 32/36, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Is it possible to put a roller cam in a small block six

Post #4 by chad » Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:25 pm

"...and not worry about wiping out lobes as much..."
when U wipe a cam lobe let me know.
Till then look here'n think bent8:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx2VkWk6K4E

no need 'tal.
Yes, U can do it, anything's possible. At what cost? @ what benefit?
Enjoy the i6 as is, later - get a crate motor when U can afford to blow it up.
Last edited by chad on Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
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Re: Is it possible to put a roller cam in a small block six?

Post #5 by CNC-Dude » Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:29 pm

There was a build on here 6 or 7 years ago by a member mike1157 that fitted an Oz Crossflow head on a 250 block with a turbo and put a roller cam in it. So it has been done, but it's expensive.
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Re: Is it possible to put a roller cam in a small block six?

Post #6 by pmuller9 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:08 pm

viewtopic.php?p=581111#p581111

Looks like the Comp Endure X solid roller lifters with removable link bars for BBF can be made to work

Contact Bullet Cams for a billet roller cam.
They make their own cam blanks.

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Re: Is it possible to put a roller cam in a small block six?

Post #7 by xctasy » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:49 am

250 with small port Aussie X flow head.


Roller converted block, similar to how the Argentinians do it, although they just use studs to center the rockers with less drilling.

Solid lifter Tigue Roller cam with about 290 degrees duration at lash, wide 115 lobe center, 235 degrees at 50 thou, 528 lift at the valve for 1.73 lifters.

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CarMichael Angelo, the artist formerly known as mike1157 wrote:https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums ... pg.595758/

Noisy or not,....this cam makes 19" of vacuum at idle, boost at 2500 RPM, and at 30% throttle. If there was ever a more perfect grind, I don't know what is......I'm thinkin that ill leave it.
Last edited by xctasy on Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Is it possible to put a roller cam in a small block six?

Post #8 by xctasy » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:08 am

Engine
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 10 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Basic Block Mods-lifter galley clearancing
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 15 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Deck widening:
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 15 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Side Plate:
Progress Thread - The Official Gila Monster Build | Page 16 | Mustang Forums at StangNet
Oct 24, 2013 Post #189 to Feb 17, 2014 #323
Page 10

https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums ... st-8772541
to Page 17

https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums ... 63/page-17


On this site, the pictures have dropped of the visual symphony...


viewtopic.php?f=1&t=71394&p=548162#p548162

mike1157 wrote:Spent the entire day finishing the side access, and the cover plate to seal it up.

Since Birmingham is another "steel city," getting the proper material to do the job is only a matter of knowing where to go. Some time ago, in anticipation of using it to make a header flange, I picked up a 2' long piece of 7/16" thick angle.
I decided that that was what I'd make the cover plate instead.
Let me tell ya, whatever the original intent of that piece of steel was, using it to make a cover plate proved a challenge. This stuff has to be the hardest steel I've yet tried to cut with standard home shop tools.

A jig saw? No freakin' way. A sawzall w/ a brand new 14 tpi blade? Laughable.
I have a hand held band saw, but the cut I had to make was too wide, and the stock hit the saw, and the cut was wandering all over the place.

Solution? A 39.00 4.5" angle grinder w/ a 1/16" cut off wheel.

I had the piece cut in 5 minutes.

I had already cut all of the access holes a few days ago, so after I got my piece cut, I finished cutting out the nooks, and crannies required to make it fit.

The other thing I did when I cut the access holes was flatten the mating surface. No easy task considering all I had to do that with was that same angle grinder, and a mill file.
Image

The next thing I did was fit that plate, and measure for the gazillion 1/4- 20 holes that I had to drill, and tap around the perimeter of the opening.
Image

Image

I bolted the bottom plate using 1/4 x 3/4 Allen head cap screws. The top plate is glued to the block, so I added a .095 piece of 1-1/4 bar on top of it, and bolted it to the glued plate to bring the top plate level with the bottom, so I could add the gussets I planned for earlier.


Now the problem w/ adding those gussets is that they are sitting directly on top of another plate tat is epoxied to the side of the engine. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to determine that the heat soak that would come off of trying to weld those gussets in place would compromise the bond of the epoxy. So I tacked it in place, unbolted it, and moved it to another piece of 1/2" flat plate that would act as a backer to hopefully keep the cover plate from warping when I welded it.
Image

So a few of you may be thinking that I have solved the problem of being relegated to using a future failure flat tappet camshaft.......and may be considering doing the same.
Image
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Better plan on what your gonna do to fit a distributor back in the engine.

I already did that too.


I plan to use EDIS. The distributor in my engine only has to drive the oil pump.

It's not done yet, I cut off the top of the main shaft right below the centrifugal advance mechanism. I left only enough material on top to keep it from falling through the distributor body. I'm gonna look for some sort of threaded sleeve so I can fit it over the nub that remains, and thread some cap on top to finish it off.

I also spent some money today. Bought my 300 harmonic balancer, my f150 flex plate, and my 95 Cobra M/C all from RockAuto. I placed a " make offer" bid on a Sanden 508 Chinese A/C compressor, and bought 6 60 lb hr injectors from EBay.

Good day,......got a bunch of stuff done, and a bunch of cool junk on the way.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Is it possible to put a roller cam in a small block six?

Post #9 by gumby23 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:31 pm

I have been re-reading the Gila Monster threads and also lightly searching AUS forums. I haven't seen any of the others with roller cams mention cutting out the block like Mike1157 had to do. Are the wider AUS blocks wide enough to get the BBF lifters in and linked up, or have I not dug deep enough on those forums yet?
Last edited by gumby23 on Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is it possible to put a roller cam in a small block six?

Post #10 by xctasy » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:41 pm

gumby23 wrote:I have been re-reading the Gila Monster threads and also lightly searching AUS forums. I haven't seen any of the others with roller cams mention cutting out the block like Mike1157 had to do. Are the wider AUS blocks wide enough to get the BBF lifters in and linked up, or have I not dug deep enough on those forums yet?


Thats it, gumby23.

The log head block hasn't got the open area the cross flow block has, so it needs heroic metal work to get enough room to fit the roller followers in a non cross flow log head.

The Argentina SP 221 block used for TC3000 and 4000 has twelve pilot holes drilled, and its relatively simple to solid roller lifter them. Making a cross flow head adds a whole 'nuther level of complication to it.


Image
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Is it possible to put a roller cam in a small block six?

Post #11 by xctasy » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:10 pm

The Todo Falcon SP221 Roller Cam conversion kit has dropped off the picture list,

Whatever we dream about, the Argentinians have already done...many, many times

Image

Image


so all I can do is show you the Aussie X flow block roller cam conversion, which is simarly simple.


Care of CYCO250

Roller camming a tall deck 200 or 250 x flow block is way, way easier,

Image


just relieve the roller rocker space with a dremal, and by a roller cam and a set of NASCAR R452 spec roller followers (351 Windsor Cleveland "335" style, with "385" 429 to 460 link rod width.


Image

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Image

Image

Image
Last edited by xctasy on Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Is it possible to put a roller cam in a small block six?

Post #12 by gumby23 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:15 pm

Sure enough!
I had been looking for those pics from CYCO and although I found several references to them, had only found broken links to old threads. Thanks for those!

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Re: Is it possible to put a roller cam in a small block six?

Post #13 by xctasy » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:18 pm

The basic differences are in Mustang Sixes Crossflow Chronicals and the Locost X flow head conversion in the tech section.

Here are some extras.

Width on US driver side, extra 1 inch
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Stock Log head exhaust collides with stock Cross flow block and its extra inch of block

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Log head on Cross flow block won't cover rocker chest holes, due to that extra inch of block width.

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Stock log head gasket verses Cross flow block at back by bellhousing


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Stock log head gasket verses Cross flow block at front by water pump


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Whole log head gasket verses whole cross flow block. Width overall is 1-1/2" wider at head gasket face.

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Comparing the 200 1966 Log head block with the stock alloy head Cross flow head gasket.


Image

The whole Cross flow block is a heap wider with different water galliers and more void space for the canted valve heads pushrods


Image
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Is it possible to put a roller cam in a small block six?

Post #14 by xctasy » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:44 pm

On the other SBF engines, just a Spider gusset is enough to retain the roller followers

Image


On the SP 221 for Turismo Carretera, the followers are cross bolted into position like this

Image

contact fakundo__92 on this link. viewtopic.php?t=78991

Watch the videos.

That is how to make a roller cam log head in line six work.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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