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Diagnosing Vapor Lock??

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Mr Comet
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Diagnosing Vapor Lock??

Post #1 by Mr Comet » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:15 am

Here is why I think my problem could be vapor lock. Car idles fine in garage. Fuel pressure gauge reads 6. I can drive around subdivision no stall outs maybe around 20mph. Take it out on highway get going about 45-50mph and about a mile the engine stalls out. within 5-10 minutes of stalling the car will start up however within driving a minute or so the stall repeats. I get out quickly and read the fuel pressure gauge and one time it read between 1 and 2 and until time flatline 0.


Setup is the old mech. mount on engine fuel pump.
Inline fuel filter from Oreilly.
3/4" alum spacer with line from PVC valve
1/2" plastic spacer
1100 autolite carb just remaned by a carburetor vendor


I am open to any ideas out there.


Thanks in advance

Soldmy66
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Re: Diagnosing Vapor Lock??

Post #2 by Soldmy66 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:12 pm

Depending on the location of the fuel filter (prior to of after the pump - which would determine the filter's impact of pressure reading), you might just start by changing the fuel filter. It is common for small filters to suck up debris and become clogged. This creates a situation which sounds very similar to the one you are describing.

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chad
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Diagnosing Vapor Lock

Post #3 by chad » Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:30 pm

yep, cheapest/easiest all ways 1st. (filter)

Thanks 4 putting in your location, Sagie river, bay, Huron - has plenty moisture/humidity.
Can be good for the VL development.

inch'n a 1/4 is pretty thick below carb, but...alu - increase vl, plastic - decrease vl.

When it happens (as it is the venturi & v.l. = 'frez') put your hand in there to see if it's cold.
To me that would be a great diagnosis (but not certain if not cold). Just a good indicator
if it was cold...
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Mr Comet
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Re: Diagnosing Vapor Lock??

Post #4 by Mr Comet » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:02 pm

Soldmy66 & Chad. The filter is brand new. It is located between the pump and the carb. Since Aluminum is not a friend I will swap that out.

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Econoline
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Re: Diagnosing Vapor Lock??

Post #5 by Econoline » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:40 pm

Sounds like maybe debri in the tank plugging the filter sock on the fuel sender pickup.
It ain't gonna fix itself

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Re: Diagnosing Vapor Lock??

Post #6 by Mr Comet » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:48 pm

Econoline wouldn't that effect all types of fuel useage? Everything was working fine I just had a carter RBS carb which was too rich and fowling out plugs so I swapped out this Autolite 1100. I have never been able to take the car out for a drive with this rebuilt carb.

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Re: Diagnosing Vapor Lock??

Post #7 by Soldmy66 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:11 pm

Mr Comet wrote:Econoline wouldn't that effect all types of fuel useage? Everything was working fine I just had a carter RBS carb which was too rich and fowling out plugs so I swapped out this Autolite 1100. I have never been able to take the car out for a drive with this rebuilt carb.


I didn't see that part (i.e., everything was fine until the new carb) in this thread - so maybe my well-intended suggestion may not be accurate.

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Re: Diagnosing Vapor Lock??

Post #8 by Mr Comet » Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:29 pm

I ask the questions to understand. I appreciate the input.

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Re: Diagnosing Vapor Lock??

Post #9 by Econoline » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:05 pm

I see. If the tank gets near empty or if it's got a drain plug, it wouldn't hurt to check anyway at some point.

Did you ever try another coil?
It ain't gonna fix itself

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Re: Diagnosing Vapor Lock??

Post #10 by chad » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:15 pm

or oneadoze clear inline gas filters right B4 the pump (U can C it in the engine bay)?

https://www.partsklassik.com/p-304-fuel ... gKCnvD_BwE

I got one there & a regular one (brass, screws inta the carb) all in line for my near 40 y/o gas tank...
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Diagnosing Vapor Lock??

Post #11 by wsa111 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:56 pm

The mechanical fuel pump might be part of your problem. When the engine gets hot so does the fuel pump.
If you have a Carter fuel pump that is your problem.
The plastic fuel filter will not absorb the heat like a metal filter.
Install an electric pump & delete the mechanical pump.
It worked for me.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, DSII dist. MSD-6al & MSD-Blaster 8252 Coil. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
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Re: Diagnosing Vapor Lock??

Post #12 by Mr Comet » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:07 pm

Thanks Bill, by the gas tank? Do you have one you recommend? I do not know how old the fuel sending unit is and I have had the car for 14 and a half years. I am sure it has seen better days also. What do you think?

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Re: Diagnosing Vapor Lock??

Post #13 by wsa111 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:46 pm

I'm running a Holley red pump with the pressure spring shimmed.
But there are better pumps out there. Check with Summit.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, DSII dist. MSD-6al & MSD-Blaster 8252 Coil. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
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Mr Comet
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Re: Diagnosing Vapor Lock??

Post #14 by Mr Comet » Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:26 pm

wsa111 was correct and the electric pump solved the stall issue. Thanks Bill. The only issue which remains is the idle speed. As I drive around town the idle can vary between 550 and 1200 rpms. I am doubting it is a vacuum issue. The throttle arm appears to not completely close the flap or flange, butterfly you get the idea. So I have installed a spring to completely close the throttle. On my autolite 1100 carb there is a small spring between the choke spring housing and the venteri housing. what is the purpose of that spring? Whats good to use to make sure all the parts are moving freely as possible on the carb? Thanks in advance.

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now: throttle/carb link. free travel

Post #15 by chad » Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:42 pm

"...Whats good to use to make sure all the parts are moving freely as possible on the carb? "
like the rest start @ begining: rug on gas peddle, rods or cable free travel, pay spec attent. to all that lill linkage @ the side of the carb (choke "finger or steps", idle cam), underside of A/C housing (holds air filter) is rubbin another guys on a current thread...

Do U have SCV/LOM system? or is a post '68 system on there...
:idea:
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Diagnosing Vapor Lock??

Post #16 by Mr Comet » Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:22 pm

Chad I was wondering about lubrication/spray cleaner? I have SCV DSII.

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Diagnosing Vapor Lock

Post #17 by chad » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:02 pm

& me...backing up a step or 2.
If U have a SCV on ur carb U need the LOM (pre '68) diz. THAT could B ur problem.

Let's follow this line of thought further.
Did U get/read 'the Handbook' ?
/OR/
read above tech archive?
"All Se"t on this LOM/SCV system in terms of understanding?

It may B the same thing again - a Q worded w/the diagnosis imbedded in the Q.
We need the problem statement (details, what is: seen, heard, smelled, felt, & yes in some cases tasted).
Then the wise guys (used affectionately) here can go to town.
/OR/
May B not....?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Diagnosing Vapor Lock??

Post #18 by Mr Comet » Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:46 pm

so the DSII is the problem for the idle going up and down?

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learning abt different ignition system'n feedback carbs

Post #19 by chad » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:49 pm

plez read that recommended above for fuller (my last name, Charles Fuller III, LICSW) understanding.
Doesn't take long. I had to just to know what Qs to ask, how to ask them...I still gota long way ta go on automotive theory/understanding esp ele ina car - I'm fair on charging system, not all the ignit system tho). U don't need 2B. Just the LOM/SCV system.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Diagnosing Vapor Lock??

Post #20 by Mr Comet » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:17 pm

Chad I do not own what you call the handbook. If anyone other than Chad wishes to help me I would greatly appreciate it very much. Has something changed in this Forum? I used to ask questions and get answers from people like bubba 22349, Rbohm, frankenstang, Ludwig, Stu from witchata and WSA111. Other too I can't recall all the names. If there are new rules to be in this forum please let me know where these rules are.

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Diagnosing Vapor Lock??

Post #21 by chad » Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:47 am

sorry, just writing out the long description will kill my arthritic hands.
Many of ur recommend folks gettin up to speed on the automotive systems.
Order a Handbook form Matt at vintage inlines dot com...read the tech archive while waiting for delivery.
Like said I hada read just to know the Qs to ask. This is not just knuckle draggin. There's some understanding'n science.

"...new rules ..."
no nuttin new, just a case where folks might get burned out, IDK ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Thnx 4 askin tho.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Diagnosing Vapor Lock??

Post #22 by wsa111 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:35 am

You have 3 choices. Run manifold vacuum to the vacuum advance or modify the 1100 to a ported vacuum carb. Or get a 68 & later non SCV carb.
There is a tech article on how to convert the SCV carb. to ported vacuum.
The idle problem maybe a sticking advance or the advance in the DS11 coming on too soon.
Put a rag over the carb. air horn to richen the mixture at idle & see if the calms the idle problem.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, DSII dist. MSD-6al & MSD-Blaster 8252 Coil. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
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Re: Diagnosing Vapor Lock??

Post #23 by Mr Comet » Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:50 pm

Bill, thanks for the concise, great reply. I am leaning on the 1100 ported vacuum. Thanks for the answers again.

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Re: Diagnosing Vapor Lock??

Post #24 by StarDiero75 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:23 pm

Yeah if you're running the DS11 with the SCV 1100 then it ain't gonna run right. I had a SCV 1100 without a LOM dizzy and i had the same issue. The idle would be different almost everytime i drove then stopped. Problem was fixed when i replaced the carb with a Holley 1904, but its a little small of a carb to run on the 200.

Like WSA said, swap the carb, or mod the carb. Modding it doesnt look that difficult, I'd try that.

Good luck
Ryan
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Re: Diagnosing Vapor Lock??

Post #25 by Mr Comet » Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:58 pm

I followed Sandiero and WSA111 advice and have completed the mod of the 1100 carb. When I put it back on I had fuel coming out of the top of the carb after idling for a few minutes. The new electric fuel pump now generates 9 lbs of fuel pressure which is more than that little carb needs so I have ordered a pressure regulator. I watched a few videos on the 1100 carb and Mike said I needed 2 to 4 set balls. I have 3. Would the mod of the SCV make any difference on the ball by one port I sealed off?

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Re: Diagnosing Vapor Lock??

Post #26 by wsa111 » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:38 pm

If the port is sealed off no ball is needed.
The only ball needed is in the accelerator pump. Maybe the dashpot for an automatic trans.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, DSII dist. MSD-6al & MSD-Blaster 8252 Coil. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
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Re: Diagnosing Vapor Lock??

Post #27 by Econoline » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:43 am

Mr Comet wrote:I followed Sandiero and WSA111 advice and have completed the mod of the 1100 carb. When I put it back on I had fuel coming out of the top of the carb after idling for a few minutes. The new electric fuel pump now generates 9 lbs of fuel pressure which is more than that little carb needs so I have ordered a pressure regulator. I watched a few videos on the 1100 carb and Mike said I needed 2 to 4 set balls. I have 3. Would the mod of the SCV make any difference on the ball by one port I sealed off?


There's also a weight above the discharge port(?) ball. Mine was missing 1 of it's three balls(most carbs don't have 4 balls, I think maybe it's an 1101 or some CA carb) and it was missing the weight. Actually, it had 3 balls but one was in place of the weight and another port was missing it's ball. And that carb was a Canadian rebuild that my friend, the po, for sure never opened up. I made the weight out of a piece of aluminum rod per Mikes description, 1 gram iirc. I also set the balls with a small bronze drift to help ensure they seal.

http://www.carburetor-blog.com/autolite-1100-carburetor/
It ain't gonna fix itself

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Re: Diagnosing Vapor Lock??

Post #28 by Mr Comet » Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:50 pm

Econoline I am glad you addressed the balls issue. when replacing my balls there are only for areas they can go. With the top off the carb off the four locations are by the accelerator pump, the despot the discharge and the SCV area. In Mike's video he puts the three balls he has in the accelerator, discharge (with weight on top) and SCV area. There is no ball in the despot port. So I did the same on mine, sound correct to any of you guys out in Autolite 1100 land?

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Re: Diagnosing Vapor Lock??

Post #29 by wsa111 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:33 pm

You don't need any at the SCV area, cause you deleted it. If you put a check ball in there you will block ported vacuum.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, DSII dist. MSD-6al & MSD-Blaster 8252 Coil. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
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Re: Diagnosing Vapor Lock??

Post #30 by Mr Comet » Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:30 pm

Thanks Bill my education continues.

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