Click Here -> Please Consider Making a PayPal Contribution to the FordSix Forum!
2019 Contributors:
NJwpod, 1strodeo, mightynorseman, maxtrux, 6d7coupe, broncr, Phase3, 68Flareside240, bmbm40,
mustang6, WorldChampGramp, justintendo, BigBlue94, ags290, motorsickle1130, Rooster, ousooner919, ethanperry
rzcrisis, DoctorC, jamyers, Motorboy, fastpat, Silverback280, chad


<<< New Site Update >>>

Keith Black Pistons

Moderator: Mod Squad

Matthew68
Registered User
Posts: 273
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:45 am

Keith Black Pistons

Post #1 by Matthew68 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:38 pm

Does anyone have any personal experience with Keith Black pistons for the 200? I’m specifically looking at the KB 3327H which are the flat top, hypereutectic pistons.

60B41937-E82D-4ADF-8A10-9135DA56906B.png


I’ve read on here lots of issues with the Tempo HSC pistons so I’d like to avoid those if possible. I haven’t really read any posts of anyone who has installed the KB pistons and reported feedback (maybe that’s a good thing?).

Anyhow - any reports would be appreciated. I do realize they take a different ring size, I know I will need to source those elsewhere.

Thanks,
Matthew
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1968 Mustang Coupe 200ci - Pertronix + Coil
Gulfstream Aqua - Interior + Exterior

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 4870
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

which Keith Black Pistons 4 a 200?

Post #2 by chad » Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:07 pm

look 4 posts frm "Explorer" (frm Commonwealth of VA) abt 10 yrs ago (give or take).
He did the Grey Ghost w/ones frm KB.
I think he's gota whole build on here...
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

User avatar
Econoline
Registered User
Posts: 1296
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:37 pm
Location: Anacortes, WA

Re: Keith Black Pistons

Post #3 by Econoline » Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:41 pm

Won't those put you out of the hole ~.010" on a virgin 200 block? It could work but you'll probably want/need the dished version for compression reasons and be very careful on valve to piston clearance.
It ain't gonna fix itself

drag-200stang
Registered User
Posts: 1115
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 6:10 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Keith Black Pistons

Post #4 by drag-200stang » Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:22 am

Have to know what CC your head chamber is , What is it?
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

Matthew68
Registered User
Posts: 273
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:45 am

Re: Keith Black Pistons

Post #5 by Matthew68 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:19 pm

drag-200stang wrote:Have to know what CC your head chamber is , What is it?


55cc alum head
1968 Mustang Coupe 200ci - Pertronix + Coil
Gulfstream Aqua - Interior + Exterior

User avatar
Econoline
Registered User
Posts: 1296
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:37 pm
Location: Anacortes, WA

Re: Keith Black Pistons

Post #6 by Econoline » Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:04 pm

I'm coming up with just over 10:1 Static Compression, 55cc chambers, .044" gasket, .030" overbore, -.010" deck height, flat top pistons.

8.4:1 dynamic compression with a 264/264 110 lsa advanced 4 degrees.
It ain't gonna fix itself

Matthew68
Registered User
Posts: 273
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:45 am

Re: Keith Black Pistons

Post #7 by Matthew68 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:26 pm

Completely missed the fact I’d be out of the hole. Thanks guys, I’ll look at something else.
1968 Mustang Coupe 200ci - Pertronix + Coil
Gulfstream Aqua - Interior + Exterior

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 9159
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: Keith Black Pistons

Post #8 by bubba22349 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:19 pm

With a Virgin 200 block plus the stock orginal Ford Pistons (1.511 Compression Height) they are usally .019 down the hole. With those KB pistions at 1.530 it should give you a zero deck height. But in my opinion being out the top of the hole .010 won't hurt a thing. With either of the new style head gaskets a Victor at.044 or FelPro at .050 you still would have a .034 or .040 quench distance respectively and that's near perfect in the .030 to .050 range. 10.0 to 1 with the Aluminum head should also work good or you could use the top pistion 3228H with its (2.967 Dia. X .071 deep dish) and drop the compression about a quarter to half point. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

drag-200stang
Registered User
Posts: 1115
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 6:10 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Keith Black Pistons

Post #9 by drag-200stang » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:48 am

bubba22349 wrote:With a Virgin 200 block plus the stock orginal Ford Pistons (1.511 Compression Height) they are usally .019 down the hole. With those KB pistions at 1.530 it should give you a zero deck height. But in my opinion being out the top of the hole .010 won't hurt a thing. With either of the new style head gaskets a Victor at.044 or FelPro at .050 you still would have a .034 or .040 quench distance respectively and that's near perfect in the .030 to .050 range. 10.0 to 1 with the Aluminum head should also work good or you could use the top pistion 3228H with its (2.967 Dia. X .071 deep dish) and drop the compression about a quarter to half point. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:

X2, I agree :thumbup:
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 4870
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

Keith Black Pistons

Post #10 by chad » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:47 am

like the 'work-a-round' tho.
New 1 on me, thanks~
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

Matthew68
Registered User
Posts: 273
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:45 am

Re: Keith Black Pistons

Post #11 by Matthew68 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:33 am

bubba22349 wrote:With a Virgin 200 block plus the stock orginal Ford Pistons (1.511 Compression Height) they are usally .019 down the hole. With those KB pistions at 1.530 it should give you a zero deck height. But in my opinion being out the top of the hole .010 won't hurt a thing. With either of the new style head gaskets a Victor at.044 or FelPro at .050 you still would have a .034 or .040 quench distance respectively and that's near perfect in the .030 to .050 range. 10.0 to 1 with the Aluminum head should also work good or you could use the top pistion 3228H with its (2.967 Dia. X .071 deep dish) and drop the compression about a quarter to half point. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:


Would I run into any valve/piston clearance issues then? I tried finding a cc calculator to determine what the dish size is on the 3328H but can't find one. I realize with the dished pistons that will help my clearance issues.
1968 Mustang Coupe 200ci - Pertronix + Coil
Gulfstream Aqua - Interior + Exterior

drag-200stang
Registered User
Posts: 1115
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 6:10 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Keith Black Pistons

Post #12 by drag-200stang » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:56 pm

Matthew68 wrote:
bubba22349 wrote:With a Virgin 200 block plus the stock orginal Ford Pistons (1.511 Compression Height) they are usally .019 down the hole. With those KB pistions at 1.530 it should give you a zero deck height. But in my opinion being out the top of the hole .010 won't hurt a thing. With either of the new style head gaskets a Victor at.044 or FelPro at .050 you still would have a .034 or .040 quench distance respectively and that's near perfect in the .030 to .050 range. 10.0 to 1 with the Aluminum head should also work good or you could use the top pistion 3228H with its (2.967 Dia. X .071 deep dish) and drop the compression about a quarter to half point. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:


Would I run into any valve/piston clearance issues then? I tried finding a cc calculator to determine what the dish size is on the 3328H but can't find one. I realize with the dished pistons that will help my clearance issues.

What clearance issues?
I thought Mr. Muller worked this out.
Always degree the cam and verify the the piston to valve clearance...You should not have a problem.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

Matthew68
Registered User
Posts: 273
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:45 am

Re: Keith Black Pistons

Post #13 by Matthew68 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:33 pm

drag-200stang wrote:
Matthew68 wrote:
bubba22349 wrote:With a Virgin 200 block plus the stock orginal Ford Pistons (1.511 Compression Height) they are usally .019 down the hole. With those KB pistions at 1.530 it should give you a zero deck height. But in my opinion being out the top of the hole .010 won't hurt a thing. With either of the new style head gaskets a Victor at.044 or FelPro at .050 you still would have a .034 or .040 quench distance respectively and that's near perfect in the .030 to .050 range. 10.0 to 1 with the Aluminum head should also work good or you could use the top pistion 3228H with its (2.967 Dia. X .071 deep dish) and drop the compression about a quarter to half point. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:


Would I run into any valve/piston clearance issues then? I tried finding a cc calculator to determine what the dish size is on the 3328H but can't find one. I realize with the dished pistons that will help my clearance issues.

What clearance issues?
I thought Mr. Muller worked this out.
Always degree the cam and verify the the piston to valve clearance...You should not have a problem.


He did, but that was with a zero deck and not a positive deck, out-of-the-hole situation. Just wanting to double check...
1968 Mustang Coupe 200ci - Pertronix + Coil
Gulfstream Aqua - Interior + Exterior

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 9159
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: Keith Black Pistons

Post #14 by bubba22349 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:20 pm

X2 I doubt you will have any troubles. But to figure this out would need to know the seated intake and exhaust valve measurement to the heads deck surface, the rocker arm ratio, plus the cam specs. :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

Matthew68
Registered User
Posts: 273
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:45 am

Re: Keith Black Pistons

Post #15 by Matthew68 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:42 pm

bubba22349 wrote:I doubt you will have any troubles. But to figure this out would need to know the seated intake and exhaust valve measurement to the heads deck surface, plus the cam specs. :thumbup: :nod:


Let me see if I can grab that tonight. Thanks!
1968 Mustang Coupe 200ci - Pertronix + Coil
Gulfstream Aqua - Interior + Exterior

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 4870
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

Keith Black Pistons

Post #16 by chad » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:09 pm

C which of KB's "Explorer" used in the Grey Fox (bronk) if U wanna short cut or an example...
There wuz a 200 ina bronk 2. 3 yrs only, he kicked his upa notch~
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

User avatar
Econoline
Registered User
Posts: 1296
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:37 pm
Location: Anacortes, WA

Re: Keith Black Pistons

Post #17 by Econoline » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:12 pm

Someone should update the tech archives. I was under the assumption that 200 pistons had a comp height of 1.5" b/c that is what is listed there, but after reading this and looking at Silvolites replacement specs I see the replacements are 1.5" and I know the replacements are shorter than oem. Sounds like you're going to be golden. It wouldn't have been the end of the world to be .010" out of the hole either depending on valve clearance.
It ain't gonna fix itself

Matthew68
Registered User
Posts: 273
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:45 am

Re: Keith Black Pistons

Post #18 by Matthew68 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:23 pm

My next question would be: where can I find a set of rings for these? They take the 1.5 and 4.0 ring sizes, and I would definitely want moly. Custom rings at one place I called cost more than the pistons.

Any leads or other places to call for moly rings? I would need .030 overbore.
1968 Mustang Coupe 200ci - Pertronix + Coil
Gulfstream Aqua - Interior + Exterior

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 4870
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

Keith Black Pistons

Post #19 by chad » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:08 am

that what the big box stores sell, nuttin special, Y not KB?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

Matthew68
Registered User
Posts: 273
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:45 am

Re: Keith Black Pistons

Post #20 by Matthew68 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:35 am

chad wrote:that what the big box stores sell, nuttin special, Y not KB?


They (KB) don’t sell a moly set for this piston. I can only find chrome and iron.
1968 Mustang Coupe 200ci - Pertronix + Coil
Gulfstream Aqua - Interior + Exterior

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 9159
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: Keith Black Pistons

Post #21 by bubba22349 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:05 am

You might try some Austrailian parts sources since the Pistons were made for that market. :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

pmuller9
Registered User
Posts: 3467
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:33 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana

Re: Keith Black Pistons

Post #22 by pmuller9 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:23 am

Autotec can supply you with a set of forged flat top pistons.
They will be a custom 4032 alloy piston made to your specs.
You get to choose piston pin size and height and piston ring groove size.

If you can get moly rings for this size piston then you can have the pistons made to fit the rings

This will also allow you to use an aftermarket "H" beam connecting rod.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=77943

Last pricing earlier this year was $525 for a set of six flat tops including piston pins.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: JackFish and 23 guests