Why won't it start?

I finished an overhaul of my '66 200 including:
210 CI cam, .020 over pistons/rings, rebuilt head milled .065, decked block to .030, HW 5200 carb, Pertronix I with Flamethrower coil on a rebuilt '69 dizzy, Fel-Pro head gasket, CI head bolt washers, headers,.

I double and triple checked EVERYTHING during the assembly: torque, freeplay, adjustments, ring gaps and alignment, degreed the cam. Trouble is - the thing won't start. It cranks with plenty of spark. Carb has fuel and it squirts into the manifold when I open the throttle.

When I cc'd the combustion chambers, they all measured around 52cc. But - I dId a compression check and found: 1 @ 90 lbs, 2 @ 90, 3 @ 85, 4 @ 65, 5 @ 75, and 6 @ 80. Is the compression too low to fire the mix? Why would a rebuilt engine have such low compression? What did I do wrong? Help - I've fallen and I can't get up!

Rings aren't seated yet for one thing. That'll give low readings all around. Hopefully you haven't washed the cylinders down with gas.

You sure the dizzy ain't in 180* out?

My first guess would be to double check the position of your distributor and make sure it is lining up with the #1 cylinder. Also verify that it isn't 180* out.

AFter that, recheck your valve train to make sure they were set properly.

Like the others said rings not seated.

Most engines when you install the timing chain you end up on the exhaust stroke. You want to be on the compression stroke for #1. To find that remove the #1 plug and turn engine by hand till it blows your finger off the hole. #1 on the dizzy is marked on most caps. Tends to be in the 3-6 o clock position if you are standing on the side of the motor. Exact location is not critical other than making your wires reach you just want to be sure the rotor is pointing to the terminal the #1 wire is on.

Are you checking for spark at the plugs? Are the getting wet with gas? Have you got any pops or anything?

assuming the cam timing is correct. i'd look at the valve train. do you have adjustable rockers? if not, with the milling and decking. the rocker might need to be adjustable.

solid or hyd. lifters?

even with that low of compression and if everything else is correct, it would run...very very poorly, but it would run. it's very likely you have more than one problem. i'd get the compression figured out, then go from there.

Checked the dizzy rotor position. It points to the #1 wire with the engine at TDC. Verified TDC by pulling the #1 spark plug. I can see the top of the piston. I tried loosening the hold down and rotating the dizzy about 10 degrees in both directions while cranking to see if the timing was off enough to keep it from firing. Acts like it wants to start, but still no go.

I'm going to take off the valve cover and see if I can spot any problems. I still don't like the compression numbers. Even though I cleaned the bolt holes and used head bolt washers, I want to check for bottomed-out headbolts. I don't have a bottoming tap and couldn't find one at my local auto parts or hardware store. Anybody got any ideas on where to find one?

Mine is part of a Craftsman set.

mustangsilly":1tvzgja8 said:

Checked the dizzy rotor position. It points to the #1 wire with the engine at TDC. Verified TDC by pulling the #1 spark plug. I can see the top of the piston.
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That only verifies TDC, but not TDC on the /compression/firing stroke. For that, both valves must be closed. Easy way to check is with your thumb in the sparkplug hole while you hand crank the engine, or pull the valve cover and watch the valves / rockers.

Nothing wrong with your compression - your rings aren't seated yet. Those aren't bad numbers for new / unseated rings.

My money is on your distributor being 180 degrees off, trying to fire on the exhaust stroke.

jamyers":1u7af5yh said:

mustangsilly":1u7af5yh said:

Checked the dizzy rotor position. It points to the #1 wire with the engine at TDC. Verified TDC by pulling the #1 spark plug. I can see the top of the piston.
...

Click to expand...

That only verifies TDC, but not TDC on the /compression/firing stroke. For that, both valves must be closed. Easy way to check is with your thumb in the sparkplug hole while you hand crank the engine, or pull the valve cover and watch the valves / rockers.

Nothing wrong with your compression - your rings aren't seated yet. Those aren't bad numbers for new / unseated rings.

My money is on your distributor being 180 degrees off, trying to fire on the exhaust stroke.

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+1

You can find a bottom tap at a bolt and screw specialty supply store. Look for fasteners or bolt supply in an industrial area of town.

If timing proves to be OK, you might look at the valve train. I once put a set of lifters in my motorcycle and adjusted per the instructions. The bike would not start or run correctly. On a kick start bike, that can tucker a fat boy out pretty quick. Turns out their instructions preloaded the lifter too much and I ended up with the valves slightly open and running lower compression.
Doug

Remove your valve cover and then the distributer cap mark the spot where the number one plug wire is on the body of the distributer.

Turn the engine and watch the valves and rotor, 99 times out of a hundred the dist. is in 180 out so you would see the rotor pointing toward the number one spot on the cap at the end of the exhaust stroke.

We have all done this and had to learn the hard way that it is easy to get mixed up. I tried for an hour to start a new rebuild before I locked at the valves, sure enough 180 out. Once I reset the distributer it started on the first try.

Remove your valve cover and then the distributer cap, mark the spot where the number one plug wire is on the body of the distributer.

Turn the engine and watch the valves and rotor, 99 times out of a hundred the dist. is in 180 out so you would see the rotor pointing toward the number one spot on the cap at the end of the exhaust stroke.

We have all done this and had to learn the hard way that it is easy to get mixed up. I tried for an hour to start a new rebuild before I looked at the valves, sure enough 180 out. Once I reset the distributer it started on the first try.

I'm currently having this same problem, used the same approach. I found the timing mark on the crank did not match the TDC mark on the scale. Still didn't get my engine started. Going to keep trying. Good to know I'm on the right track, using similar approach. Noticed some scoring inside my dizzy cap, so maybe I better try again with a new cap where I think TDC actually is. I wish mine would fire first time!

69.5Mav":3d99om7n said:

Remove your valve cover and then the distributer cap, mark the spot where the number one plug wire is on the body of the distributer.

Turn the engine and watch the valves and rotor, 99 times out of a hundred the dist. is in 180 out so you would see the rotor pointing toward the number one spot on the cap at the end of the exhaust stroke.

We have all done this and had to learn the hard way that it is easy to get mixed up. I tried for an hour to start a new rebuild before I looked at the valves, sure enough 180 out. Once I reset the distributer it started on the first try.

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that's a lot of compression loss for rings not being broke in, on a bored and properly honed engine.

think about it, they're not equal....

something else is not quite right......

Again, there's likely more than one problem here.

180* out. Stick your finger in #1 and turn the flywheel until you feel pressure build. That is the compression stroke.

grocery getter":1a0yrfaz said:

that's a lot of compression loss for rings not being broke in, on a bored and properly honed engine.

think about it, they're not equal....

something else is not quite right......

Again, there's likely more than one problem here.

Click to expand...

I disagree. On a cold engine with unseated rings, as long as you have compression I wouldn't worry. (Heck, I've seen an engine run with barely over 40 psi average.) And you don't want them all to be equal, it's an indication of a leak. Get it running, get the rings seated, then check the compression when warmed up. Anything before that isn't going to tell you very much. IMHO.

yea i am agreeing with everyone here with your timing being off and trust me it can be annoying but after awhile you get darn good at it

ive gotten good enough i was able to get a distirbutor in and timed correctly and have it start up the first time(almost everytime i had to do it) on the T-buckets at school

After break in, What is the expected static compression on a .030 decked block with a 52cc chamber ?

From what I have seen any tight engine is going to be 150- 200 warmed/ lubed up. I have never really noted any difference with different CR's. I think it has to be a lot to show up on that type of test. IIRC the diesels I have done were only in the low 200's with 22:1 compression. I have had engines that seemed to run fine below 60. The big thing you are looking for is how close they are between cylinders. Static (they kind of test we do with a gauge) compression has little to do with the big picture. Dynamic compression where cam and such comes into play makes much more difference.

At least you built this motor and you should know... my last motor had solid lifters with non-adjustable rockers on a remanufactured motor that I bought second hand; I bought that way. The valves weren't closing. Had good static compression for a cold, not yet seated rings, and everything checked out but would not start for the life of me until I replaced the rocker arms.

Do you have adjustable rockers?