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Stang67
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Post #1 by Stang67 » Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:48 pm

I have a stock engine and am running a Weber 2 barrel carburetor. Everything was fine until like 4 days ago my car broke down in the middle of the road. I got the car back running now but am having some problems with the carburetor. If I give it gas it’s to shakes like crap and is back firing. I was thinking of selling my Weber carburetor and just get a 1 barrel carburetor so I can be stock all around. I think the carburetor is to powerful for this stock engine.
Hi my name is Fabion and I have a 1967 Ford Mustang with a Rebuilt 200 cid,T-5,front disc brake, 3 point seat belt and a weber 2 barrel.Dui Dizzy

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Post #2 by JackFish » Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:17 pm

Perhaps it's nothing more than the fuel pump failing.
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Post #3 by DupleDreux » Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:27 pm

Hi Stang 67,

The old saying is if you think its the carb its probably the timing and if you think its the timing its probably the carb.

Backfiring sounds more like a timing issue and maybe a vacuum issue.

First replace the PCV Valve, it always seems to be the culprit when mine suddenly runs rough.

If you have a timing light, check the setting, but be mindful that if you have an old harmonic balancer, the timing marks might be migrating around - best to disconnect and plug the vacuum advance line (I use a golf tee) and adjust for highest RPM/vacuum.

Then check the vacuum advance line from the carb or manifold to the distributer canister. if its split or cracked its both a vacuum leak and will wack out your timing. get some extra line while youre getting the PCV.

If you are using a stock Dizzy its expecting the spark control signal from the stock carburator, not manifold vacuum, but you said it was running fine, so I doubt thats the issue.

Then it might be another vacuum leak - do you have an automatic transmission or power brakes? Mine had the vacuum lines so cobbled up after 40 years of ham handed mechanics, I built a new vacuum manifold.

I'm afraid if you jump into changing the carb with out checking the vacuum & timing, you'll compound your problems..

mark
66 Mustang Coupe "DupleDreux" daily driver

ported milled, DSII, Clifford 3 in 2, 2100 1.08.

smooth as a Jag, pulls stumps all day, 20 mpg

works for me!

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Post #4 by Frankenstang » Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:52 pm

JackFish wrote:Perhaps it's nothing more than the fuel pump failing.

+1

Maybe even fuel filter...from running fine to not running :hmmm:

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Post #5 by Stang67 » Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:27 pm

DupleDreux wrote:Hi Stang 67,

The old saying is if you think its the carb its probably the timing and if you think its the timing its probably the carb.

Backfiring sounds more like a timing issue and maybe a vacuum issue.

First replace the PCV Valve, it always seems to be the culprit when mine suddenly runs rough.

If you have a timing light, check the setting, but be mindful that if you have an old harmonic balancer, the timing marks might be migrating around - best to disconnect and plug the vacuum advance line (I use a golf tee) and adjust for highest RPM/vacuum.

Then check the vacuum advance line from the carb or manifold to the distributer canister. if its split or cracked its both a vacuum leak and will wack out your timing. get some extra line while youre getting the PCV.

If you are using a stock Dizzy its expecting the spark control signal from the stock carburator, not manifold vacuum, but you said it was running fine, so I doubt thats the issue.

Then it might be another vacuum leak - do you have an automatic transmission or power brakes? Mine had the vacuum lines so cobbled up after 40 years of ham handed mechanics, I built a new vacuum manifold.

I'm afraid if you jump into changing the carb with out checking the vacuum & timing, you'll compound your problems..

mark
Its a manual transmission and I dont have power brakes. I change the fuel filter and the fuel pump is only a year old.
Hi my name is Fabion and I have a 1967 Ford Mustang with a Rebuilt 200 cid,T-5,front disc brake, 3 point seat belt and a weber 2 barrel.Dui Dizzy

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Post #6 by Mercury Mike » Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:41 pm

You still have vacuum lines, places on the carb that vacuum can leak from, a plug in the tapped part of the manifold for where the modulator's vacuum line would be. And your distributor could have slipped. CHECK TIMING AND VACUUM BEFORE YOU MESS WITH FUEL!!!
1967 Mercury Monterey "unnamed to date" 390/V8/C6
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1962 Falcon Ranchero "Veronika" 170/6/C4 (Lost)
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Post #7 by Stang67 » Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:50 pm

Mercury Mike wrote:You still have vacuum lines, places on the carb that vacuum can leak from, a plug in the tapped part of the manifold for where the modulator's vacuum line would be. And your distributor could have slipped. CHECK TIMING AND VACUUM BEFORE YOU MESS WITH FUEL!!!
Well I think I have the timing on point but dont hold me to it because everytime I move the dist the carb will start to back fire
Hi my name is Fabion and I have a 1967 Ford Mustang with a Rebuilt 200 cid,T-5,front disc brake, 3 point seat belt and a weber 2 barrel.Dui Dizzy

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Post #8 by Mercury Mike » Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:55 pm

Start all over. Pull #1 spark plug, crank the engine over by hand until you feel air push out of the cylinder, compression stroke. Then move the harmonic balancer forward to TDC. Make sure that the rotor is pointing at #1 spark plug on the cap now. If not, that's gonna be your starting point now, and move the distributor so that the #1 is right there. Hook up your timing light, set it to 10* or 12*, and then check all your vacuum lines. Get back to me. =)
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1965 Mustang Coupe "Sally" 200/6/C4 (Sold)

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Post #9 by Stang67 » Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:03 pm

Mercury Mike wrote:Start all over. Pull #1 spark plug, crank the engine over by hand until you feel air push out of the cylinder, compression stroke. Then move the harmonic balancer forward to TDC. Make sure that the rotor is pointing at #1 spark plug on the cap now. If not, that's gonna be your starting point now, and move the distributor so that the #1 is right there. Hook up your timing light, set it to 10* or 12*, and then check all your vacuum lines. Get back to me. =)
Guess am going to try that tomorrow then and tell u the out come.
Hi my name is Fabion and I have a 1967 Ford Mustang with a Rebuilt 200 cid,T-5,front disc brake, 3 point seat belt and a weber 2 barrel.Dui Dizzy

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Post #10 by DupleDreux » Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:53 pm

If youre sure the fuel pump and filter are fine and the timing is on, I'm pretty sure its a vacuum issue. backfiring through the carb isn't usually a carb issue, its the plug firing at the wrong time in the cycle.

Theres a very remote chance your timing chain jumped a tooth, but I'd first make sure the vacuum, and especially the vacuum advance, systems are all fine.

Are you running the stock Dizzy? a load a matic usually needs a modulated vacuum signal from a stock 1100. Then you'd be right to go back, but again, its not because of the carb, its the timing and specifically the vacuum advance that's your issue.

Mark
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ported milled, DSII, Clifford 3 in 2, 2100 1.08.



smooth as a Jag, pulls stumps all day, 20 mpg



works for me!

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Post #11 by Stang67 » Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:58 pm

DupleDreux wrote:If youre sure the fuel pump and filter are fine and the timing is on, I'm pretty sure its a vacuum issue. backfiring through the carb isn't usually a carb issue, its the plug firing at the wrong time in the cycle.

Theres a very remote chance your timing chain jumped a tooth, but I'd first make sure the vacuum, and especially the vacuum advance, systems are all fine.

Are you running the stock Dizzy? a load a matic usually needs a modulated vacuum signal from a stock 1100. Then you'd be right to go back, but again, its not because of the carb, its the timing and specifically the vacuum advance that's your issue.
Mark
Am running a 68 dist with dual vacuum. How can I even tell if my fuel pimp is bad its only a year old. If my timing chain did jump a tooth how can I fix that.
Hi my name is Fabion and I have a 1967 Ford Mustang with a Rebuilt 200 cid,T-5,front disc brake, 3 point seat belt and a weber 2 barrel.Dui Dizzy

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Post #12 by DupleDreux » Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:05 pm

[/quote] because everytime I move the dist the carb will start to back fire[/quote]

That pretty much tells you its a timing/vacuum advance issue. I bet your canister was stuck, the timing was set with it stuck, you were running fine without vacuum advance, and then it became unstuck. Your timing went haywire. If you were running a stock dizzy, now you have all the problems of folks who change the carb without also going to DSII or DUI!

a search on Load o Matic will turn up only a hundred or so posts on the topic.

let us know!

mark
66 Mustang Coupe "DupleDreux" daily driver



ported milled, DSII, Clifford 3 in 2, 2100 1.08.



smooth as a Jag, pulls stumps all day, 20 mpg



works for me!

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Post #13 by Stang67 » Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:09 pm

DupleDreux wrote:
because everytime I move the dist the carb will start to back fire[/quote]

That pretty much tells you its a timing/vacuum advance issue. I bet your canister was stuck, the timing was set with it stuck, you were running fine without vacuum advance, and then it became unstuck. Your timing went haywire. If you were running a stock dizzy, now you have all the problems of folks who change the carb without also going to DSII or DUI!

a search on Load o Matic will turn up only a hundred or so posts on the topic.

let us know!

mark[/quote] I thought 68 dist were not load o matic
Hi my name is Fabion and I have a 1967 Ford Mustang with a Rebuilt 200 cid,T-5,front disc brake, 3 point seat belt and a weber 2 barrel.Dui Dizzy

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Post #14 by DupleDreux » Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:20 pm

Again, the timing chain is very very last, you have to pull the timing chain cover (after waterpump and harmonic dampener) and make sure the marks line up. so its definatly last. The cover is aluminum, easily stripped with the oil pan bolts, fneeds the seals replaced. and the dampener needs to be retorqued to like 90 ftlbs. Overall it takes time and patience.

With the fuel pump, you need a helper. Get a glass jar and long length of fuel hose, and crank the engine a few times, gas should come out (into the glass jar) in even pumps or streams. Rebuilt pumps generally are not as trouble free as the orginal ones were, they are not remanufactured as the original equipment was manufactured.

Finaly, for the 68 Dizzy, I don't have any experience with them, but I know they need a ported vacuum source on the carb. Is that how yours is attached?

Other wiser members need to step in here.

mark
66 Mustang Coupe "DupleDreux" daily driver



ported milled, DSII, Clifford 3 in 2, 2100 1.08.



smooth as a Jag, pulls stumps all day, 20 mpg



works for me!

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Post #15 by DupleDreux » Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:23 pm

Sorry Stang 67 I thought you had a 67, I was writing at the same time you were, and not responding to your last post.

mark
66 Mustang Coupe "DupleDreux" daily driver



ported milled, DSII, Clifford 3 in 2, 2100 1.08.



smooth as a Jag, pulls stumps all day, 20 mpg



works for me!

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Post #16 by Stang67 » Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:29 pm

DupleDreux wrote:Sorry Stang 67 I thought you had a 67, I was writing at the same time you were, and not responding to your last post.

mark
I do have 67 stang
Hi my name is Fabion and I have a 1967 Ford Mustang with a Rebuilt 200 cid,T-5,front disc brake, 3 point seat belt and a weber 2 barrel.Dui Dizzy

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Post #17 by Stang67 » Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:34 pm

What if I was to get a dui performance distributor will that fix me up
Hi my name is Fabion and I have a 1967 Ford Mustang with a Rebuilt 200 cid,T-5,front disc brake, 3 point seat belt and a weber 2 barrel.Dui Dizzy

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Post #18 by Mercury Mike » Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:09 am

It will fix you up just fine. Just like a DSII. Either way, you're going to have to follow the procedure that I wrote for you above for setting proper timing before you go anywhere else. Don't even TOUCH fuel until you're 110% positive that your timing is perfect or as close as you can get it. =)
1967 Mercury Monterey "unnamed to date" 390/V8/C6

1965 Mustang Coupe "Sally" 200/6/C4 (Sold)

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1956 F-100 Big Window "Henry" 272/V8/3ontheTreeOD

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Post #19 by Lazy JW » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:37 am

Stang67 wrote: .....Am running a 68 dist with dual vacuum. How can I even tell if my fuel pimp is bad its only a year old. If my timing chain did jump a tooth how can I fix that.


One thing at a time :D

First off, I do not wish to insult anyone but as it is impossible to know what a person's skill level is I will make an obvious statement or two. With a "dual vacuum" distributor it is possible to have the vacuum advance connected to the side that actually retards the spark rather than advances it. Are you absolutely certain you have the correct side connected? Next, as mentioned above, you need to have the vacuum advance connected to the proper vacuum source at the carburetor.

It has been my experience (having been born on the "other" side of the tracks) and having driven numerous old junker vehicles and farm implements that a plugged fuel filter first manifests itself at HIGH SPEED FULL POWER. The only exception I have seen to this is when a tractor would sit unused for a long period of time and sediment would settle in the bottom of the tank causing a "no start" situation.

Thus far in my life every time I have had a situation that turned out to be "no fuel" the engine just wouldn't run when more fuel was demanded. Think about what happens when you run out of gas.

You may have vacuum leak problems but I'm thinking that a spark is happening at the wrong time/place. Double check the firing order for proper placement of the wires, make absolutely certain that the points are good and properly adjusted, etc.
Joe
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Post #20 by JackFish » Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:10 am

Have you pulled the plugs to check their condition?
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Post #21 by Stang67 » Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:20 am

now i real give up I was going to change the gear shift that the dist set on and the dum socket and extension falls in how can I get it out. Do I have to remove the oil pan
Hi my name is Fabion and I have a 1967 Ford Mustang with a Rebuilt 200 cid,T-5,front disc brake, 3 point seat belt and a weber 2 barrel.Dui Dizzy

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Post #22 by Vin Man » Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:23 am

Stang67 wrote:now i real give up I was going to change the gear shift that the dist set on and the dum socket and extension falls in how can I get it out. Do I have to remove the oil pan


If it fell into the hole that the distributor was in, and you can't reach it with pliers or a magnetic tool, then yes, you will need to pull the oil pan.

You have nothing but bad luck with this car.
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Post #23 by Williboy » Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:24 am

What about water/moisture getting under the dizzy cap?? I agree w/ most and think it's in the ignition system.
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Post #24 by Stang67 » Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:25 am

Yes am starting to see the clear picture now I think after this am just going to move on and get something else am tried of playing around with this car now :twisted:
Hi my name is Fabion and I have a 1967 Ford Mustang with a Rebuilt 200 cid,T-5,front disc brake, 3 point seat belt and a weber 2 barrel.Dui Dizzy

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Post #25 by Williboy » Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:32 am

Aren't old cars fun!!!! My buddy did the same thing on his 65 302 Mustang not once but twice on the same weekend.

Dropping the pan is not hard. Grab a beer or Irish coffee, depending on the weather, drain the oil, jack the car up, remove the belly bar and then the bolts holding the pan. Make sure to use a new gasket when reinstalling the pan. And don't over torque the bolts to wrap the pan.
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Post #26 by Frankenstang » Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:25 pm

I’m not taking sides either way, and am not going to say I know exactly what the problem is, BTDT and been wrong. Could it be ignition related…yes, could it be fuel related…yes, just about anything is possible.

My suggestion is/was only to keep it simple. Your car is running down the road (and I assumed normally from what you said) then you ‘break down’. What could be the problem? I doubt the fuel mixture suddenly went out of adjustment, just as I doubt the timing/ignition suddenly went out of adjustment.

I personally am going to start with basic checks of the system, as mentioned by others above. Am I getting fuel flow (check for fuel flow, vacuum/fuel leaks disconnections, loose linkages, etc.)? Am I getting spark (condition of spark plugs, loose wires, vacuum leaks, check for spark at coil and at plugs, etc.)?

I’m not going to go from running fine (again assuming this was the case) to broke down, and then make the jump that my timing must be off, or my fuel mixture must be off…not when it was just running normally. Yes, could have jumped time, could have dropped a valve, but again just about anything is possible. My point is I’m going to start with simple diagnostics not adjustments that can introduce more issues.
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Post #27 by Stang67 » Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:50 pm

Took a nice brake and also finish taking the oil pan down and got my tool that fell in it. So I got everything set up rotor facing number 1 spark plug on the dist cap and check my spark plugs and wire and found 2 plugs were bad number 4 and 6 so am going to change them tomorrow when I get the oil pan gasket. I will keep u guys update
Hi my name is Fabion and I have a 1967 Ford Mustang with a Rebuilt 200 cid,T-5,front disc brake, 3 point seat belt and a weber 2 barrel.Dui Dizzy

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Post #28 by mugsy » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:37 pm

The other thing on the dizzy to check is the point gap or dwell angle. It doesn't sound like that's your problem with the backfiring, but it does affect the overall performance of the engine. Make sure its gapped correctly.
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Post #29 by Stang67 » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:47 pm

mugsy wrote:The other thing on the dizzy to check is the point gap or dwell angle. It doesn't sound like that's your problem with the backfiring, but it does affect the overall performance of the engine. Make sure its gapped correctly.
how do I check to make sure the point gap and dwell angle is right
Hi my name is Fabion and I have a 1967 Ford Mustang with a Rebuilt 200 cid,T-5,front disc brake, 3 point seat belt and a weber 2 barrel.Dui Dizzy

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Post #30 by mugsy » Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:20 pm

point gap and dwell angle are one and the same. to checkthe gap take the cap off and rotate the motor until the rubbign block onthe points is on th ehigh point of the lobe. Use a feeler gauge, the measurement has to be accurate to 0.001 of an inch, and measure the gap betweenthe two little pads of the points. The *other* way is to buy a dwell meter and hook it up to the dizzy. The tool should come with instruction on how to hook it up.

If you can find an old gearhead (by old I mean older than 45 years old) they should be intimately familiar with measuring and setting points. It was one of the things you had to do to do a tune-up on a car pre-1980-ish.
line 'em up, baby



Found over on Neons.org:

"whats a tranny tunnel?"

"total area is 142 cubic inches"

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Post #31 by 69.5Mav » Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:07 pm

With the pan off you can look up in the number one cylinder and tell when the piston is at top dead center. Its a little different then with the head off but you can then check the timing mark to be sure it has not slipped.

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Post #32 by Stang67 » Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:40 pm

69.5Mav wrote:With the pan off you can look up in the number one cylinder and tell when the piston is at top dead center. Its a little different then with the head off but you can then check the timing mark to be sure it has not slipped.
how can I check the timining mark to be sure it has not slipped
Hi my name is Fabion and I have a 1967 Ford Mustang with a Rebuilt 200 cid,T-5,front disc brake, 3 point seat belt and a weber 2 barrel.Dui Dizzy

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Post #33 by 69.5Mav » Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:08 pm

Look at where the mark on the balancer is compared to the degrree marks on the timing case cover right next to the balancer on the drivers side at the front of the engine looking down fron the top. If the number one piston is at top dead center and the two marks line up + or - 2 degrees you are golden, if not then the balancer has slipped and you should probably replace it.

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Post #34 by Stang67 » Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:01 pm

thanks for the heads up if my balancer did slipped I will be selling this car.
Hi my name is Fabion and I have a 1967 Ford Mustang with a Rebuilt 200 cid,T-5,front disc brake, 3 point seat belt and a weber 2 barrel.Dui Dizzy

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Post #35 by JackFish » Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:58 pm

Stang67 wrote:thanks for the heads up if my balancer did slipped I will be selling this car.

You mean you'd sell the car because you wouldn't want to replace a simple part?
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Post #36 by Stang67 » Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:01 pm

now ur making me feel bad lol this is like strike 5 for this car
Hi my name is Fabion and I have a 1967 Ford Mustang with a Rebuilt 200 cid,T-5,front disc brake, 3 point seat belt and a weber 2 barrel.Dui Dizzy

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Post #37 by Frankenstang » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:12 pm

Fabion,

I think it would be a good idea at this point to summarize where you're at. In order for someone here to help. they need to know where you started with this car when problems began and what you've done, changed, replaced.

For example,
I can tell from looking at your past threads that it looks like you started with a weber two barrel and 'load-o-matic' distributor (although don't know if this was confirmed...doesn't matter cause you replaced it) ported off manifold vacum by the looks of this pic and the following post:

http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd15 ... 1001-1.jpg

http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... ht=#423604

Then at some point you believed you had the 'new' distributor 180* out, and corrected that...then everything was fine according to the following post 'everything good':

http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... ht=#425023

Then you started this post that says everything was 'fine' until you broke down in the middle of the road.

I'm not trying to be critical of you, and I understand the frustration (that is a very nice looking ride), but think it's time to draw back a little and get big picture in order to figure out where your problems started and why, cause without the benefit of searching all your posts/threads (takes time and detective work) it's hard to figure out where to go from here, and most suggestions are going to be relative only to what info you have included here. I hesitate to say it might even be worthwhile to start yet another thread giving as much history, background, details and pictures of how you got to where you are now.

Not to keep :deadhorse: , but you mention in one of the other threads that you changed the points, but you don't seem familiar with gapping/dwell settings (maybe you got lucky?), cause that was prior to this thread that starts off with all was fine 'until'....I assume you got acceloration above 30mph that you stated. when you first joined us, you weren't able to do before...again 'all was fine until'??? Point is this thread in itself has listed just about everything that could be a problem, and I'm sure you're mostly concerned about what particular one or more is the problem. I just don't see a path or opportunity for anyone to help you out of this situation without some pull back and reassment (we've got a tiger by the tail approach)...maybe just from what I've compiled you/we/us can...but at the moment I need a break cause just compiling this felt like giving birth :lol:
Conclusion...think about the new thread but start it off right, and hang in there.
-Robert
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Post #38 by Frankenstang » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:14 pm

Cursed double post :evil:
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Post #39 by Stang67 » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:57 pm

Wow Frankenstein u did some investigate and thanks. Sorry for all this it’s just when I get mad I just can’t think straight and say stupid thing and confuse people. Let’s start over from the beginning. When I first posted on here I had a 67 dizzy in the engine then I learn about load o mantic so I got a 68 dizzy. I installed it and my car would not start I had the # 1 piston tdc and rotor pointing at the #1 spark plug on the dizzy cap but the car was still not running right so I change the position of the rotor and it was facing the # 6 spark on the dizzy cap and all was fine for like 3 weeks and then my car breaks down in the middle of the road. I don’t know why but I got the car to start back up and it was running like crap so I was going change the rotor to be facing the #1 spark plug on the dizzy cap and when the Dum socket fell into the oil pan when I was changing the shaft that the dizzy set in I got it out and now am in the process of putting the oil pan back together so I can continues were we left off at.
Hi my name is Fabion and I have a 1967 Ford Mustang with a Rebuilt 200 cid,T-5,front disc brake, 3 point seat belt and a weber 2 barrel.Dui Dizzy

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Post #40 by Axle Roads » Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:57 pm

>>I don’t know why but I got the car to start back up and it was running like crap so I was going change the...

Please, elaborate here. List everything to touched from the time you first broke down on the side of the road to the time you got it started again. Did the car start right back up? Did you open the hood and inspect any wires? Any hoses? Which ones? Did you call a tow truck and get it started at a later time.

I just finished reading your whole thread and with a cool head I suspect the solution to your problem(s) is buried in what changes you made at this period of time.

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Post #41 by Frankenstang » Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:17 am

Wow Frankenstein...

Hey Fabion! I resemble that remark :rolflmao:
at this point I should ask if you've ever seen Mel Brooks Young Frankenstein, but then I'll get way off the subject... :lol:

All joking aside, since you've got the oil pan off, I would also consider pulling the valve cover, to me this is will help with the most infalable way to find and verify TDC, as 69.5 Mav suggests. Since you're there it would not hurt to be sure. When #1 piston is going up and both valves on #1 are closed you are on the compression stroke at the top of that stroke is TDC. You want to put the piston in this position and verify that the distributor rotor is pointing to the plug wire on the cap that leads to #1 cylinder. To be sure, if you rotate the crank too far and #1 piston is now coming down both valves will still be closed and you just passed TDC. This is the combustion stroke...4 stroke engine (stroke 1 up) w/both valves closed is compression stroke, (stroke 2 down) w/both valves closed is combustion stroke, (stroke 3 up) w/exhaust valve open is exhaust stroke, (stroke 4 down) with intake valve open is intake stroke.

You might already know all this but again with oil pan and and valve cover off you have the opportunity to verify without doubt TDC. You could triple check this with a probe, but I'll spare you that for now. you should be able to visually tell #1 is at the top with the pan down and verifying #1 piston rod is at it's apex. After you are sure you're at TDC (piston at the top...not before and not after) the rotor should be pointing to the plug wire on the cap that goes to #1 piston, you can now check where the timing mark is on the balancer. If the rotor is not pointing dead on the plug wire on the cap for #1 but is close, then that reflects the advance or retard in your timing. Again when piston is at the top with both valves closed the timing slash/marke on the balancer should be at 0* advance/TDC relative to the scale on the timing cover. I would put a streak of white out on the timing slash on the balancer, it makes it alot easier to see with a timing light later. If the slash is not on zero/TDC and is actually well off the timing scale on the cover then your balancer has slipped(wouldn't worry about it at the moment), and it will be best at this point to set the timing by vacum till you get the balancer replaced. After this, immediatetly check the firing order and make sure it is correct, and all plugs wires are solidly connected. If for some reason the rotor is not pointing at #1 (or relatively near it) once you are sure you're at TDC you can restab the distributor or re-order the plug wires to make the rotor point at #1. Tell us what you find, and we can go from there.

Next would be setting the point gap, but while you're under the cap anyway make sure the little arm coming off the vacum advance at the distributor has not come loose and you do not notice any excessively loose parts within the distributor (points are not moving around, distributor plate is not loose, etc.). Are you running your vacum advance off the black rubber line that attaches just below the carburetor in your picture above?
Good luck

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Post #42 by 69.5Mav » Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:05 am

Frankenstang
What scene in Young Frankenstein are you refering to.

Stang67
After reading the last few posts I wonder if the distributer hold done bolt was loose and your car died when the distributer moved. Dose this sound likely? That was the last thing you were working on, if so then all you have to do is verify top dead center to the valves like Frankenstang said and check the balenser timing mark at the same time, put everthing back to gether and your in bussiness.

If that does not get you going then the next likely place I would look is timing chain stretch but lets not open that can of worms if we don't have to.

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Post #43 by Frankenstang » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:19 am

69.5Mav wrote:Frankenstang
What scene in Young Frankenstein are you refering to.


Just kidding around with Fabion...[gene wilder]"it's Frankensteen"
-Robert
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Post #44 by 69.5Mav » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:36 am

Frankenstang

I get it.



Stang67

Any Progress?

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Post #45 by Stang67 » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:12 pm

ok I got the dum oil pan on today. when u guys say the rotor should be pointing on the number one spark plug on the dizzy cap should the gold part be pointing or the flat side be point on the #1 plug on the dizzy. If its suppose to be the gold part then I have it right but it backfiring throw the carb. if any of this make sense
Hi my name is Fabion and I have a 1967 Ford Mustang with a Rebuilt 200 cid,T-5,front disc brake, 3 point seat belt and a weber 2 barrel.Dui Dizzy

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Post #46 by Frankenstang » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:52 pm

Yes...the gold/brass tip should be pointing at the #1 cylinder wire location on the distributor cap.

Did you verify that the engine is at Top Dead Center (TDC/0*)?

Did you check the firing order?
Edit: <reason I'm emphasizing this again is from personal experience...one time I spent several days chasing a 'miss' and had at least a half dozen people, who tinkered with engines less than I did, ask "sure you did not switch a couple plug wires by mistake?"
My response "No, no, no...I'm not going to screw up something simple like that I insisted"...well guess what ?:oops: :oops: :oops:
-Robert
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66 Mustang 200+30, 67 BH, 89 4cyl T-5, 71 Comet 4 lug 8" 3:1rear, 85 T-Bird v6 DS, 10 Mallory Unilite Hyfire VI-A, 08 Vaporizer 1bbl, 68 Cougar 2" exhuast,65 pipe, 74 Mav man disc m/c & Scarebird(87 Stanza rotors 89 Cavalier calipers), 73 Datsun 240z Appliance Wire Mags, 03 Mustang Leather seats
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Post #47 by Ronbo » Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:15 am

Most likely 180 out.

Either pull and rotate the distributor 180 degrees or...

pull the distributor out and rotate the crank all the way around to TDC again and then put the distributor back in the same way you did the first time.

It takes two rotations of the crankshaft for four strokes of the piston.
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Post #48 by Stang67 » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:43 am

ok guys am going to take some pic of the dizzy cap and the direction the rotor is pointing when I get off work. we can go from there
Hi my name is Fabion and I have a 1967 Ford Mustang with a Rebuilt 200 cid,T-5,front disc brake, 3 point seat belt and a weber 2 barrel.Dui Dizzy

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Post #49 by Ronbo » Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:14 pm

Patience my friend! 8) Try working on your daughter's 90 Seville all day, want to talk about frustration? And they said Mustang's were meant to be throw away cars!


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Post #50 by eeyore » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:22 pm

Remember that the rotor pointing to the #1 plug wire when the engine is at TDC is only good if the engine is at TDC ON THE COMPRESSION STROKE. This means both valves are closed on the #1 cylinder. Otherwise you could be at TDC on the exhaust stroke, or 180 degrees off. I've seen this, it won't run, but it will backfire like crazy tring to start it.
Dave

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