lost

Wow Frankenstein...
Click to expand...
Hey Fabion! I resemble that remark :rolflmao:
at this point I should ask if you've ever seen Mel Brooks Young Frankenstein, but then I'll get way off the subject... :LOL:

All joking aside, since you've got the oil pan off, I would also consider pulling the valve cover, to me this is will help with the most infalable way to find and verify TDC, as 69.5 Mav suggests. Since you're there it would not hurt to be sure. When #1 piston is going up and both valves on #1 are closed you are on the compression stroke at the top of that stroke is TDC. You want to put the piston in this position and verify that the distributor rotor is pointing to the plug wire on the cap that leads to #1 cylinder. To be sure, if you rotate the crank too far and #1 piston is now coming down both valves will still be closed and you just passed TDC. This is the combustion stroke...4 stroke engine (stroke 1 up) w/both valves closed is compression stroke, (stroke 2 down) w/both valves closed is combustion stroke, (stroke 3 up) w/exhaust valve open is exhaust stroke, (stroke 4 down) with intake valve open is intake stroke.

You might already know all this but again with oil pan and and valve cover off you have the opportunity to verify without doubt TDC. You could triple check this with a probe, but I'll spare you that for now. you should be able to visually tell #1 is at the top with the pan down and verifying #1 piston rod is at it's apex. After you are sure you're at TDC (piston at the top...not before and not after) the rotor should be pointing to the plug wire on the cap that goes to #1 piston, you can now check where the timing mark is on the balancer. If the rotor is not pointing dead on the plug wire on the cap for #1 but is close, then that reflects the advance or retard in your timing. Again when piston is at the top with both valves closed the timing slash/marke on the balancer should be at 0* advance/TDC relative to the scale on the timing cover. I would put a streak of white out on the timing slash on the balancer, it makes it alot easier to see with a timing light later. If the slash is not on zero/TDC and is actually well off the timing scale on the cover then your balancer has slipped(wouldn't worry about it at the moment), and it will be best at this point to set the timing by vacum till you get the balancer replaced. After this, immediatetly check the firing order and make sure it is correct, and all plugs wires are solidly connected. If for some reason the rotor is not pointing at #1 (or relatively near it) once you are sure you're at TDC you can restab the distributor or re-order the plug wires to make the rotor point at #1. Tell us what you find, and we can go from there.

Next would be setting the point gap, but while you're under the cap anyway make sure the little arm coming off the vacum advance at the distributor has not come loose and you do not notice any excessively loose parts within the distributor (points are not moving around, distributor plate is not loose, etc.). Are you running your vacum advance off the black rubber line that attaches just below the carburetor in your picture above?
Good luck

3EDITs: my oldtimer's isreally catching up with me
 
Frankenstang
What scene in Young Frankenstein are you refering to.

Stang67
After reading the last few posts I wonder if the distributer hold done bolt was loose and your car died when the distributer moved. Dose this sound likely? That was the last thing you were working on, if so then all you have to do is verify top dead center to the valves like Frankenstang said and check the balenser timing mark at the same time, put everthing back to gether and your in bussiness.

If that does not get you going then the next likely place I would look is timing chain stretch but lets not open that can of worms if we don't have to.
 
ok I got the dum oil pan on today. when u guys say the rotor should be pointing on the number one spark plug on the dizzy cap should the gold part be pointing or the flat side be point on the #1 plug on the dizzy. If its suppose to be the gold part then I have it right but it backfiring throw the carb. if any of this make sense
 
Yes...the gold/brass tip should be pointing at the #1 cylinder wire location on the distributor cap.

Did you verify that the engine is at Top Dead Center (TDC/0*)?

Did you check the firing order?
Edit: <reason I'm emphasizing this again is from personal experience...one time I spent several days chasing a 'miss' and had at least a half dozen people, who tinkered with engines less than I did, ask "sure you did not switch a couple plug wires by mistake?"
My response "No, no, no...I'm not going to screw up something simple like that I insisted"...well guess what ?:oops: :oops: :oops:
 
Most likely 180 out.

Either pull and rotate the distributor 180 degrees or...

pull the distributor out and rotate the crank all the way around to TDC again and then put the distributor back in the same way you did the first time.

It takes two rotations of the crankshaft for four strokes of the piston.
 
ok guys am going to take some pic of the dizzy cap and the direction the rotor is pointing when I get off work. we can go from there
 
Patience my friend! 8) Try working on your daughter's 90 Seville all day, want to talk about frustration? And they said Mustang's were meant to be throw away cars!


Ron
 
Remember that the rotor pointing to the #1 plug wire when the engine is at TDC is only good if the engine is at TDC ON THE COMPRESSION STROKE. This means both valves are closed on the #1 cylinder. Otherwise you could be at TDC on the exhaust stroke, or 180 degrees off. I've seen this, it won't run, but it will backfire like crazy tring to start it.
 
eeyore":2qg75j7c said:
Remember that the rotor pointing to the #1 plug wire when the engine is at TDC is only good if the engine is at TDC ON THE COMPRESSION STROKE. This means both valves are closed on the #1 cylinder. Otherwise you could be at TDC on the exhaust stroke, or 180 degrees off. I've seen this, it won't run, but it will backfire like crazy tring to start it.
Click to expand...
yep thats whats happening here are the pic of my rotor and dizzy cap
http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd15 ... 91642a.jpg what do i need to do to stop that from happening. the last time I had it running the rotor was facing the number 6 spark plug on the dizzy.
 
As has been mentioned, you need to verify that you are at TDC of the compression stoke on the #1 cyl.
Check the following.
Pull the #1 spark plug and place a long stick or screwdriver in the plug hole. As the engine is rotated, the screw driver should move up. When the timing mark is reached the piston/screw driver should be at its upper most position. (technically you should also verify that this is the compression stroke by either placing your finger over the hole when the piston is rising to see if you feel compression. Or you can pull the valve covers and look at the position of the valves and rocker arms to see if both the intake and exhaust valve is closed. But the odds are that if the timing mark is lined up and piston is at TDC and the distributor rotor is at TDC, then you are likely at TDC of the compression stroke) But if the distributor was recently pulled and installed, it would be best to confirm that it is indeed on the compression stroke since someone could have installed it at TDC of the exhaust stroke. And since you mention that it was pointing to the #6 terminal, it sounds like the distributor was either set in 180 deg out of phase, or someone wired the distributor cap and firing order incorrectly.

When the timing mark on the balancer is at the indicated TDC, the rotor of the distributor should be pointing at/near the terminal of the #1 plug on the distributor cap.
Doug
 
PLEASE be very careful with the screwdriver in the sparkplug hole test. I've heard the horror stories of broken screwdrivers in cylinders or worst.. broken pistons!!!!

It's really starting to seem like it's a timing issue.

My same friend who drops the socket into the pan also repeatedly screws up his firing order and timing with the same symptoms.
 
66 Fastback":3fnd5twy said:
As has been mentioned, you need to verify that you are at TDC of the compression stoke on the #1 cyl.
Check the following.
Pull the #1 spark plug and place a long stick or screwdriver in the plug hole. As the engine is rotated, the screw driver should move up. When the timing mark is reached the piston/screw driver should be at its upper most position. (technically you should also verify that this is the compression stroke by either placing your finger over the hole when the piston is rising to see if you feel compression.
When the timing mark on the balancer is at the indicated TDC, the rotor of the distributor should be pointing at/near the terminal of the #1 plug on the distributor cap.
Doug
Click to expand...
I have done that and I get the same results its backfiring through carb. Should I turn the shaft that the dizzy sit on to a little to the left to see if anything changes? This is what’s basically happening to me not my car but same concept http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-f5UQmqRqg
 
Yes that's pretty much what an engine will sound like when the distributor is stabbed 180* out.

The firing order is 1-5-3-6-2-4, and this is the order of the plug wires as they go clockwise around the distributor cap.

You can try re-ordering the wires so that 1 & 6 switch places, 180* the other way. However, his is why it is critcal to stab the dizzy when you are positive the engine is at TDC, as has been mentioned, the crank/balancer/timing mark will go around twice to complete all four cyles of the engine...so one time the timing mark is at TDC, the other time it is 180* off. Simply re-ordering the wires the opposite way/180* out may not solve your problem if you setup the plug wires with the distributor a tooth or two off.

Couple other items (the first one concerns me most):
1) In this pic you have the bare ground wire inside the dizzy where it looks like it is wedged against the inside of distributor housing and could keep the breaker point plate(dizzy) from advancing:
http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd15 ... 91642a.jpg
It should be out of the way like in this pic:
http://thomasjsestakautoparts.com/C8DF12127L2.JPG
(again this is the little bare wire that goes from the mounting screw of the points assembly to another screw down in the dizzy)
2)The pink wire over to the righht in your picture, needs to be taped up and moved out of the way where it can't possibly come into any contact with the block or any other metal. Again it's the pink wire connector, the one you mentioned is a second lead coming off the coil and fordcovert or someone correctly told you that it is probably a hook up for a tach because it also is hooked to the neg. side of coil same as black primary lead. While you are at it make sure there are no bare spots on your primary wire, but I suggest you electric tape up that pink lead and move it away from any metal surface.

EDIT: Sorry! I screwed up here...ground wire inside dizzy is on the right screw (I should've check the manual earlier...I would still make sure it can't interfere with breaker plate advance). Point is make sure all those wires are connected solidly, to the correct connections, and where they cannot interfere with the moving parts inside the dizzy or out of the way of contacting something they should not[/i]
 
this is really getting to me now. i fell like trying one of those dui dizzy. this points system is not working for me. am going to play around with it tomorrow and c how far am willing to go with this car :cry:
 
Ok guys am real stupid :oops: today after work I was playing around with old mustang sora almost had it to start today.I narrow my problem down to being a timing issue. I took a pic of the harmonic balancer and I saw the white mark were it’s suppose to line up with. Is there a way to manual move the piston up without cranking the engine? I even saw the tdc mark on the timing cover. Here is a pic of what am talking about and a video of what’s happening right now dum me. http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd15 ... 091759.jpg

http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd15 ... 091829.flv
 
Remove the plugs and turn the bolt holding the balancer with a ratchet wrench or fixed socket bar clockwise until reaching TDC. Others will tell you that this will shear the bolt off but it never has for me.

There are several was to make sure it is TDC: Finger in the first plug hole and turn until you feel air pressure on your finger, screwdriver in the plug hole and turn until it stops rising, wire probe or the some other visual method.

Can also search 'find TDC'.
 
These 2 white mark lines should line right up on the harmonic balancer and the timing cover right that I showed in the pic right
 
Stang67":3dx69ob0 said:
These 2 white mark lines should line right up on the harmonic balancer and the timing cover right that I showed in the pic right
Click to expand...

Yup...then your rotor is either pointing at #1 cylinder, #6 cylinder, or your harmonic balancer has slipped.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top