What is more important to fix/replace first?

I have a 65 mustang with a 68 bottom and 67 head, history was i bought the car at 92k miles, the pervious owner "refreshed" the seals of the engine, only gaskets, I now have 20k on the the od (120k) and i'm still missing oil every oil change, when i drain it (it went from 3.5 quarts out @ 3000miles to 2.5 quarts out @ 1500 miles) still black and sluggy. I had the c4 replaced with a t5 so tranny problems are gone. i replaced the holley 1940 carb that gave 13mpg with a pony 1100v that gave 18mpg (then 22mpg with the new tranny). so I don't know when the engine was rebuilt but that's just about all i can think of. and on top of that oil is constantly fowling up my spark plugs, i clean them every time i do the oil 1500 miles and they are getting caked every time (#3-6, 1 and 2 are some what cleaner)

My distrubutor is constantly breaking springs on me, i'm 100% advanced at 1800rpm now not in gear (was 2300rpm)... I was pinging for the longest time because of springsand if i'm not careful i can still ping... I want to replace with the DUI for simplicity ($435 for the setup, no billet parts)

The engine is constantly leaking oil, i took 8 cans of engine degreaser to the bottom and less than 1500 miles i am back to where i started from, when the engine has a full 5 quarts I loose pep, i'm currently using 20w50 becuase it keeps the engine quieter for some reason... but i loose reving time, it's sluggish and i'm thinking it's time to replace that, $750 with an engine swap i'll keep it stock, except the head i'd like to get a bigger log... I'm thinking taht when i tryed 15w30 i had the same results except more noise

my steering has play, and i've tried to adjust brakes to stop the pull to one side on hard stops, smooth stops i have no problems. but then i noticed my stearing linkage rubber joints at basicly gone, and my spring perches need to be replaced, along with the upper and lower ball joints, i priced it out to roughly $400. but can manage as i have awesome stopping power on freashly replaced brakes

My question is what is more important right now?
my L-O-M is falling apart causeing more dmg to the the engine $435 to replace
my engine is leaking and fowling plugs constantly, $750 and a week end to replace (i don't want to try to stop the problems anymore)
front end, alignment is actually good, little wear on outside of tires isn't bad because of cornering, so i'm hoping i can delay this but it is something i want to tackle... $400


I'm living paycheck from paycheck atm as i have expended my funds trying to fix never ending problems... what should I focus on first?

I value all imput and ideas, if it's quick and doesn't invole money it's worth a try, but i'd rather save all money for the items listed unless i'm not seeing something... then please point it out to me

thanks
Richard

What is it that is involved in your pricing out the replacement loadomatic distributor? That price is redicoulously high, unless your wanting to replace it with a DUI which i can understand but there comes a point where ya gotta make do with what ya can afford .

I would say at this point unless your suspension is in dire need (like you can wobble the damn wheel more then an inch cause of ball joint movement) that your distributor issues need to be solved. Its no use if the car won't start and run, do you feel safe driving it suspension wise knowing whats wrong with it? If you do then get your distributor issue solved.

Why is it your breaking springs anyways? If its just you need the new distributor and its a loadomatic then why not just buy a replacement, they can't be more then $40 and drop it right in for now.

The distributor would be least expensive, immediate fix. Plus, when you do swap out the engine, you can still use the new distributor. While I'm a fan of the DUI, its a luxury not a necessity. Upgrade your existing ignition system with either new parts or go with dizzy and you'll see improvements.

From a rebuild standpoint, I see lots of complete, running engines out there that are only a few hundred dollars. You don't have to spend a fortune to improve your situation.

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/pts/1413603415.html

When you are ready to rebuild, start with your current block and see if you can do an exchange for a better head from one of the local houses like 5 Star Engine in Glendale.

8) my advice is to start with the suspension steering and brakes first. these are the safety items that if they fail you can be in big trouble. once these problems are fixed, then start in with the engine.

Perhaps it's the valve seals letting the oil in.
That's a cheap fix that leaves you money for something else.

Well I do value the comments on here, thank you very much.

To answer some questions
Steering- I trust it, to me it's always been the same since i bought the car, except for when i lock all 4 tires it pulls to the right (that is new)... yes, i can move it almost an inch before it reflects on the wheels...
Engine price- I quoted from 5 star engines it would be a complete rebuild and i give them my old eninge, i would do this so that I'D KNOW how many miles i'd have...
Distributor- I don't want to mess with vacuum distributor as I have a SCV on the 1100v, i want to go full mechanical on a DUI because it's the best, I'm going to get one some day anyways so might as well sooner than later...

The point in each of these swaps would to put in NEW items, not a replacment that i'll just replace later on. these are things i've always wanted to do but am now almost forced to do them...

It looks like it's coming to the distributor, steering, engine... the DUI is luxary but it will fix it once and for all with its simple setup...

Thanks,
Richard

rbohm":181olq5j said:

8) my advice is to start with the suspension steering and brakes first. these are the safety items that if they fail you can be in big trouble. once these problems are fixed, then start in with the engine.

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Ditto

The front brakes pulling to one side may be a bad adjuster. Since it is pulling to the right, check the adjuster on the LEFT side. It may be bad or just needs an adjustment. It could also be that something has clogged the line in the brake line distribution block, but I doubt that. More likely something on the left side brake system is out of whack.

I've got the drum assemblies off the Mustang right now if you want to come over and take a look. As I've got them on craigslist, someone may want them. But, until they are gone, you are welcome to take a look and see if they appear any different than your current setup.

If you want to do the disc brake conversion, I've got 67 disc brake spindles I can sell you cheap. I purchased them here from someone else but wound up not using them.

Howdy Back Richard:

It sounds like you have yourself committed to a DUI distributor. Which is fine, but definitely not the biggest bang for the bucks, in your situation. A couple of observations- (1) What makes you think that a full vacuum source for a DUI will be "best" with your engine? A manifold vacuum source typically works well in engines with a longer than stock duration cam. Not so good in engines with a stock cam. A DUI will not fix your oil leaks, oil fouling, brake pull or steering issues. (2) With your stock LoM distributor, what springs keep breaking? Point spring or advance springs? (3)Have you determined the source of your oil consumption problems? Does it smoke more on start-up? Does it smoke more when you step on the gas after a coasting, in gear deceleration? Have you done a wet/dry compression test? Have you removed the valve cover to visually inspect the condition of the valve seals? If the problems are related to valve seals or valves, changing the whole engine would be unnecessary and expensive overkill. Changing valve stem seals or doing a valve job would be most cost effective. (4) Have you tried adjusting the play in your steering at the steering box? Have you lubed the steering box (very frequently overlooked). (5) Is your brake pull condition due to a leaky wheel cylinder? This could be dangerous to you and to others, and would be my highest priority to resolve!

IF I were living paycheck-to-paycheck, but earmarked $435 (for an upgraded distributor swap), I'd invest my time (and maybe a few dollars) in a thorough assessment of the problems. Then I'd establish a prioritized plan. My plan would be prioritized with Safety First!- Brakes and steering. Reliability second, and fun stuff last. So.... If I were in your shoes, I'd make sure my brakes were safe and reliable, I'd adjust the play in my steering box, Since you've already invested in a Pony 1100 carb with a SCV, I'd assess the LoM distributor, with a Petronix unit (another investment which you've already made) and resolve any issues with it. Then I'd assess the greatest source of oil consumption and fouling and address it. These four items could cost as little as $200 or as much as $500 depending on how much you can do and what you find in assessing.

Sorry to blow smoke on your DUI parade, but that's the way I see it. Don't getme wrong. The DUI is a quality piece. But, in your case, is not the biggest-bang-for-the-bucks.

Anyway, it's your choice. Keep us posted you what you decide and your progress. Good luck.

Adios, David

Richard

I concur with Rbohm, Jack and David.

If you can't stop the car reliably then there is no point in driving it. Brakes would be my top priority.

Next try to find out where all your oil is going. Sometimes you can stop pan and timing case leaks by retightening the bolts but be careful not to snap them off; just a little can be enough. A lot of oil can come from the valve cover. Replacing the valve cover gasket will let you lock at the valve seals. On an engine this old they probably need replacing. When replacing the valve cover gasket clean both surfaces really well, glue the valve cover gasket to the valve cover with RTV and use the valve cover bolts to hold the valve cover gasket in alignment till the RTV dries.

Next time you have the plugs out and the engine is warm do a wet dry compression check. This will tell you the condition of the rings and valves. With your description of the oil after only 1500 miles I suspect you are getting a lot of blow by fouling your oil. I would think it best, if the compression test comes back bad, to buy a good used engine and put it in. This would be the cheapest rout. I once drove an engine that got 50 miles to the quart, burning and leaking, but had no money to fix it. It finally spun a rod bearing and sat till I had some money to fix it.

Just my two cents.
Good luck and keep posting your results

69.5Mav":1uwk78jr said:

Richard

I concur with Rbohm, Jack and David.

If you can't stop the car reliably then there is no point in driving it. Brakes would be my top priority.

Next try to find out where all your oil is going. Sometimes you can stop pan and timing case leaks by retightening the bolts but be careful not to snap them off; just a little can be enough. A lot of oil can come from the valve cover. Replacing the valve cover gasket will let you lock at the valve seals. On an engine this old they probably need replacing. When replacing the valve cover gasket clean both surfaces really well, glue the valve cover gasket to the valve cover with RTV and use the valve cover bolts to hold the valve cover gasket in alignment till the RTV dries.

Next time you have the plugs out and the engine is warm do a wet dry compression check. This will tell you the condition of the rings and valves. With your description of the oil after only 1500 miles I suspect you are getting a lot of blow by fouling your oil. I would think it best, if the compression test comes back bad, to buy a good used engine and put it in. This would be the cheapest rout. I once drove an engine that got 50 miles to the quart, burning and leaking, but had no money to fix it. It finally spun a rod bearing and sat till I had some money to fix it.

Just my two cents.
Good luck and keep posting your results

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If you need to borrow a compression tester, let me know.

MPGmustang":2tq2viqq said:

my steering has play, and i've tried to adjust brakes to stop the pull to one side on hard stops, smooth stops i have no problems.

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when I stop normally, i have little pull to the right, i will tighten my left side adjuster to see if that fixes it, when I lock all 4 tires is when i notice the pull is alot more forceful causeing me to tense more than usually (i'm not westling the wheel to stay straight tho... it's not that strong at all) I'm very confident in the brakes to stop at any time at any speed.

personally i would like to do away with any vacuum advance and go mechanical (centrifical?), the manifold vacuum setup would be fine for me(but honestly i don't understand the difference between SCV and manifold or any other vacuum setup). as long as i can hit the gas and not ping when i want to WOT every where i go with max acceleration... (my driving habits are Aggressivly Deffensive)

when i degreased the engine the only places that oil came back was the front of oil pan, and rear of oil pan. I'll do a compression check tuesday morning.

my budget isn't that small guys...

David in answering your questions/observations
(1) I don't know what's best for my engine, i'm laking experience because i don't think it has ever worked properly to begin with... I don't mind the oil leaks for now, but i'm still wanting the relpace with a rebuilt...
(2) I don't have point springs.. it came with pertronix. I just want something more robust
(3) i'll have to get back to on that, i can't find/see any smoke... and when it sits there is no leak, when it idles no leak, but change it after 1500 miles and i'm 1/2 empty...
(4) where would I adjust this? where can i add fluid?
(5) no, I just did all brakes- springs, shoes, hardware, cylinders, rubber lines (within the past 2 months)... this was a must that i already took care of... I have steering problems, the mustang shop said my linkage is loose and my ball joints are all in poor condition along with the suspension setup. and steering wheel has too much play (they quoted $1500 for parts and labor, i found parts they quoted for $400 and i'll do the labor)

Vinny- thanks for the offer(s)

Thanks you for your comments,
Richard

WOW, reading your post reminds me of my Mustnag right after I bought it. Most of the same issues. Heres what I found out on mine and it might help you.

The #5 spark plug would foul after about 100 miles. The rest functioned OK. I did a dry/wet compression test and most of the cylinders were even (135-150 psi) with #5 at 170-ish. I figured the oil was really gunking up the rings in #5 and making that cylinder seal better. So I replaced the valve stem seals with the head still on the engine and the fouling stopped. I used the compressed air method and it it worked well for me. Some here like using rope in the chamber. Either will work. Do a search on how to replace valve stem seal on this forum and you should get good info.

My car was purchased from a High School Auto shop teacher. I've found that generally they were more "parts replacers" than "mechanics". When I finally took the head off the engine I found a later composite head gasket with an un-milled head. The head had stock combustion chamber volumes. So the compression ratio was way low. You mention that the PO "regasketed" the engine. Was the head gasket replaced? If so was the head milled to maintain CR? The composite HG are thicker than the OEM one which will lower the CR if the head is not milled. Higher CR (up to a point) will give more power and better gas milage.

After driving the car for about 5 years it started losing oil just like yours. There were leaks all over and after I tightened all the bolts, it still leaked. I finally noticed that while stand looking at the engine and giving it gas by hand that there was this puff of smoke coming out of the oil breather cap!!!! Long story short, the rings on #6 piston were totally trashed. Leaking gaskets CAN be caused by excess pressure in the crank case. This is caused by excess blow-by across the rings. The dry/wet compression test will tell you what shape the rings are in. But personally I have a bad feeling that the rings are shot in your engine. But do verify that all leaks are fixed before you go replacing engines.

As others have stated here, fix the saftey stuff first. But after that I would replace the engine if the rings are bad. No need to put good parts on a bad motor. You'll never enjoy the upgrade if the engine is junk. It's like spraying cologne on dog shit.

And lastly, if you do replace the engine then I'll give you a hint on how to "budget" for it. Go ahead and identify all the costs you can to replace the motor. Then double it at least. Maybe multiply your estimate by 2.5. By the time you buy oil, filters, antifreeze, rags, spray cleaners, forgotten gaskets, thermostats, belts, etc you will easily spend double what you think. Trust me: been there- done that!! but its all fun!!!

MPGmustang":2qbvhp3f said:

.... when I lock all 4 tires is when i notice the pull is alot more forceful causeing me to tense more than usually

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FIX THE BRAKES FIRST!

Brakes that pull to one side are NOT reliable nor are they safe. It is of the utmost importance to be able to stop and steer safely. Until this is fixed, you really do not have a car to drive.
Joe

I'd have to agree with what's already been said...
1)Brakes
2)Suspension*
3)Everything else...

*Long time ago my UCA broke around the balljoint...had just pulled off the 'highway' at a gas station, turning around in the parking lot...snap, boom!...instantly lower profile on one side...not the way to discover those probs

MPGmustang":6cysksjf said:

My distrubutor is constantly breaking springs on me, i'm 100% advanced at 1800rpm now not in gear (was 2300rpm)... I was pinging for the longest time because of springsand if i'm not careful i can still ping

Click to expand...

Sounds like something still ain't right...shot in the dark here, but any chance you have the wrong vacuum advance canister or springs hooked up incorrectly...just a thought as to what still may be causing your over advancing, especially enough to 'break' springs???...I don't recall if load-o advance is adjustable.

EDIT: Richard, to complete a thought here, and cause I don't want to derail your 'big picture' thread...when you were originally chasing the "overheating & pinging" issue, I remember you mentioning changing the vacuum advance...this is why I brought up the idea of the wrong canister (IIRC there were two diff types for the load-o canisters, smog & non-smog, or some such. At any rate, I would not think it was impossible (maybe improbable, but I don't trust parts stores) that you could be given the wrong type of vacuum canister that could possibly effect initial and total advance especially if the linkage were just slightly different...anyway that was my reason for the 'reach'.

On another note, I looked at the old thread and you mentioned at some point the dizzy was being fed manifold vacuum, so hopefully you already addressed that...b/c the load-o has to receive port vacuum from the side of an scv carb. Maybe the breaker plate is just that worn out...but the ability to break advance springs is still puzzling, especially if you've gone with stiffer springs...jumping ahead to your comment below, you could opt for a rebuilt load-o, or DSII can be pretty affordable. As far as folks (like myself) harping on brakes...no offense, it's just better to be safe than sorry. Good luck.

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Howdy Back Richard:

To adjust to steering box play, look under the hood for the steering box. It's under the brake master cylinder. There are three or four cover bolts and an adjusting, slotheaded screw with a lock nut on it. Center the steering wheel, loosen the cinch nut and screw the slotted (like a screw head) in until it softly snugs, then loosen about a quarter turn. Try turning the steering wheel in the area of play, and try to adjusting screw again. Retighten the cinch nut. Now turn the steering wheel slowly right and left feeling for any bind. If you feel bind, go back and loosen the adjusting tang another quarter turn. There is a post somewhere on this forum on lubing the steering box. But, it is adding grease through the bolt holes with the wheel turned to lock both right and left. It would be a fairly saft bet that your steering box has never been serviced since leaving the assembly plant. This adjustment should help with excessive steering wheel play, but will not help with loose tie rod end. Tie rod ends are not too expensive or difficult to replace. Be sure to get a realignment if you change the tie rod ends. Ball Joints and bushings are a bigger and more expensive job.

You mentioned breaking springs in the distributor. What springs? The tension on LoM springs is adjusted by bending the mounting tang in or out. In fairly stock applications, the LoM is not a bad system so long as all the parts are working as designed. Given the oil burning and plug fouling your pre-ignition is more likely a result of carbon buildup hot spots than a problem with the LoM system. When you replaced the points with an Ignitor did you open up the plug gap? What do you have your initial advance set at? If I were in your shoes, I'd determine the source(s) of the oil disappearance(s) before I committed any money to anything else. Before doing a compression test you may want to add a vacuum reading to check for a low reading and/or burnt valve.

With a right brake pull at panic stops, it is more likely contamination on the new right front brake shoes. It can be cleaned by removing the brake drum and cleaning with brake cleaner, or do several panic stops in a safe location to see if it won't clear up that way.

Keep it coming.

Adios, David

The brakes are straighter now, I adjusted the left to tighten up and that helped, then I took the front R drum off to clean and it didn't really change much but the main thing that helped was when I loosened the front right, (go figure) but now I can stop with no hands (okay a finger or two) on a panic stop, I did it 10 times in a row. Each was great... but I still have play in the steering, Thanks David for the panic stop idea the last 3 were the best (i wonder how much brake i lost)

Engine- I did a compression test today, I actually found myself with nothing to do (thinking the brakes would take all day.... :arg: ) the wet dray test I think gave good results, I'll let you guys decipher it... I'm using AutoLite 46 plugs
I did several test, the read is the following;
Cyl-Gap-plug cleanness-1 rev psi-max psi-1rev oil psi-max oil psi
1-45-clean-95/100-130-120-180
2-45-clean-95/100-140-130-205
3-45-lot of cake-100/105-150-135-205
4-45-cake-95/100-135-125-175
5-45-dust-105/115-140-135-205
6-45-lil cake-95/100-130-130-175

the oil helped all cyl's keep higher pressure (I’m guessing that’s a good thing?)
what each category is, I cranked the engine once for the 1 rev psi and oil psi, and cranked the engine as many times until the cyl's pressure quit going up.

The springs that kept breaking are long gone, I am now using a stock spring and a performance spring. That’s why I’m fully advanced at 1800, I think the stock spring is from a V8 setup (picked up at the mustang shop…). Since the DUI is not the best bang for its buck… grrr… what do you recemend to replace my distributor with, I’d personally like centrifugal advance, with max advance at 2500rpm.

Any insights will be great…

for the suspension; I’ll be using this kit
http://www.cal-mustang.com/BASIC-FR...d-1962-65-Falcon-after-101561-P13506C881.aspx

Steering;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...199185133&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MEWAX:VRI

So, now what??

Thanks,
Richard

Howdy back:

Did you do a vacuum reading at idle? A fluctuating needle would indicate a burnt/damage valve. The compression test indicates that your rings are not sealing the best, but not entirely shot either. The lowest pressure cylinders are not horrible and the difference between high and low cylinders are not extreme. Ideally, you'd like to see less than 10% differences, but they're not horrible. If the vacuum guage needle, at idle, is steady, then I'd go back to suspecting bad valve stem seals as the main culpert for oil consumption and plug fouling. It would also be interesting to know how much vacuum the engine is pulling.

I think the next step is to remove the valve cover and visually inspect the valve guide seals, through the springs. You should easily be able to see if the seals are intact and on the valve guide bosses. If they are cracked, in pieces, or gone, you will have one answer. Again, you can buy a valve job gasket set for about the same price as a valve cover gasket and the valve stem seals separately. If you have damaged valves, indicated by a fluctuation vacuum guage needle, you'll need the whole set anyway.

"The springs that kept breaking are long gone, I am now using a stock spring and a performance spring. That’s why I’m fully advanced at 1800, I think the stock spring is from a V8 setup (picked up at the mustang shop…). Since the DUI is not the best bang for its buck… grrr… what do you recemend to replace my distributor with, I’d personally like centrifugal advance, with max advance at 2500rpm."

Is this on a Stock type LoM distributor? If you're talking about the springs on top of the breaker/advance plate, near the bottom as you look into it, these are controlled by the vacuum signal from the SCV in the 1100 carb. They are not the same as centribugal advance springs, which are located under the advance plate. Both the springs and the posts they attach to wear with time. In my opinion, the LoM distributor works best in stock condition. It requires a correct signal from the SCV at the carb, a leak free line to the vacuum diaphram, a leak free diaphram and free to rotate, correct springs. If I were you, I'd revert all distributor function back to stock, adjust and play with initial advance, and try to eliminate chamber fouling and carbon build-up. I'm guessing by youur signature that MPG/economy is of some importance to you. If so, that is the most important function of a vacuum advance system. By going back to stock advance system with your distributor (keep the Petronix and .045" gap), you'll eliminate one variable in this multi-level puzzle.

If you must replace the distributor, all of the electronic (non-points) type will work fine; DS and DS II, or DUI. But know that you will need to seal up the SCV port in the carb, and go to a manifold source for the vacuum advance. This will require you to reduce your initial advance- not what you want. All of these distributors are designed with a ported vacuum source in mind. So the vacuum advance system will not work as intended. If you eliminate the vacuum advance system it will hurt your engines economy. Manifold vacuum works fairly well sometimes on engines with a longer duration, performance cam that usually lowers engine vacuum.

If I were in your shoes, since you've invested in a Pony 1100 Vaporizer and a Petronix Ignitor, I'd stick with the complete system- SCV and LoM. Sorry. Besides, you've got enough steering and suspension issues to keep your budget busy. Oh, and possibly valve stem seals.

Glad to hear the brake pull is resolved. I love it when it's the simple easy things. Did you try adjusting the play in the steering box yet? Keep the info coming.

Adios, David

If the safety aspects have been addressed. And along those lines, I think the upgrade to Disc Brakes has been one of better changes that I made to the car.

You might consider an MSD box. I had plug fouling problems on the Mustang and an old Corvette I had. The MSD box keeps the plugs clean and maintenance free. Granted it is treating a symptom, but if you have idle problems from fouled plugs misfiringk, the MSD box will smooth out the idle and help performance by reducing misfires. The MSD box can be triggered with the points in the distrubutor and the points will last extremely long because the points are no longer carrying the bulk of the ignition's current.
Doug

66 Fastback":29ghfoa9 said:

.... if you have idle problems from fouled plugs misfiringk, the MSD box will smooth out the idle and help performance by reducing misfires....

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This is probably the best attribute of MSD; the Capacitor Discharge feature will fire a plug under fouled conditions far better than inductive ignitions, and the multiple strike is most advantageous at low speeds.
Joe