MORE POWER
- Thread starter MPGmustang
- Start date
how much are you going to sell these for when they come out?
You ain't hyjack'n, cause you're try'n to make "more power"AzCoupe":18pt6n6z said:
Well after this, i'll send in the head for a direct mount 2bbl, i think it's time anyways, the 1bbl is only so good to so much. anyone intrested in the pony carb? good to guaranteed 96hp... if it's not enough for me, I'll go for the alum and sell this head to help compensate (most likely out come...)
Mike, u might want to pre jet those carbs rich, my current motorcraft 70 jet is too lean for this heat.
if anyone else out there is still using the 1bbl autolite, I highly recomend a bigger jet for summer as you go lean, I was pulling @ average 13.2 A/F where as before it was roughly 12.6 A/F and temp was ~80* vs ~100*
Gene Fiore
Famous Member
Even the torque numbers?AzCoupe":2h3pvjib said:
Gene, i know the engine is so strangled from lack of carburation that any mods would not help.Gene Fiore":1lpaenir said:
Also unless you use flat top pistons to get the compression up to 10.5 & cranking compression to at least 190# you will not see close to full potential power. Bill
well, this is a daily driver so a 10.4 CR isn't really smart... but it would be FUN!! 
so today I added some insulation to the car, she's way quieter, I grabed some dynamat (15sq/ft) and placed it stratigectly and then some ducking rolls through out the whole car... lets just say the radio had to be turned just a bit...
but the main part I got to today was the fact that I hooked up the carter YFA carb I got from rich she's alittle lean right now (maybe ALOT) cause my temps are CRAZY right now, it can't cool it fast enough, so I'll have to fatten it up. hopefully this will get a few more ponies on the dyno, but I can't figure an air cleaner, so any tips would be helpful.
just an opinion on the carb, it's revs fast then the pony carb, but not much, I think after I fatten her up it'll purr better. only gas will tell. I did retard the timing to try combat the super lean mixture but think I picked up a few ponies lol, so was a busy day think the bigger carb (220cfm ) will give a few more ponies, and if it does I'll take it back off and smooth out the inside bore to see if I can get more CFM out of it. only some extra work I'm willling to try.
this sat will be good to see what the 1bbl intake hole can do on this log head.
so today I added some insulation to the car, she's way quieter, I grabed some dynamat (15sq/ft) and placed it stratigectly and then some ducking rolls through out the whole car... lets just say the radio had to be turned just a bit...
but the main part I got to today was the fact that I hooked up the carter YFA carb I got from rich
she's alittle lean right now (maybe ALOT) cause my temps are CRAZY right now, it can't cool it fast enough, so I'll have to fatten it up. hopefully this will get a few more ponies on the dyno, but I can't figure an air cleaner, so any tips would be helpful. just an opinion on the carb, it's revs fast then the pony carb, but not much, I think after I fatten her up it'll purr better. only gas will tell. I did retard the timing to try combat the super lean mixture but think I picked up a few ponies lol, so was a busy day think the bigger carb (220cfm
) will give a few more ponies, and if it does I'll take it back off and smooth out the inside bore to see if I can get more CFM out of it. only some extra work I'm willling to try.this sat will be good to see what the 1bbl intake hole can do on this log head.
MPGmustang":3jzbpm9m said:
You have that backwards , Summer temps ( along with humidity ) require Less Fuel ) Cold Dry requires more , Just saying
He lives in a hot. Dry locale and either way, a lean mixture will not allow the fuel to properly cool the combustion chambers. And if not dealt with, in hos extreme temperatures can lead to preignition and massive damage from practically allowing the engine to diesel at times of extreme lean conditions such as off idle deceleration
The best & only accurate way is to hook up to a wideband A/F tester such as an innovate.
That will tell you real fast what you have.
To fine tune from there go to the drag strip & see what jets give you the highest trap speed. Bill
That will tell you real fast what you have.
To fine tune from there go to the drag strip & see what jets give you the highest trap speed. Bill
wll the reason I say it's really lean is cause it heats up too fast... compared to the pony carb. this hasn't happened since I ran the 59jet in the pony, and I always got hot really quickly, since I have been changing jets to bigger sizes I have noticed a more constant temp of the engine. so this is my conclusion base on my past experiences.
the other problem I'm getting is not enough heat transfer out of the the radiator in +100* tempuratures during the summer. but that's a different topic. (I think the stock size radiator is only good enough for so much HP in AZ... if I was in a higher elevation it would be more than suficient)
the other problem I'm getting is not enough heat transfer out of the the radiator in +100* tempuratures during the summer. but that's a different topic. (I think the stock size radiator is only good enough for so much HP in AZ... if I was in a higher elevation it would be more than suficient)
The one I have won't work, it's too tall, and the carb hole is bigger than the airfilter base... I'm looking for somthing that's less than 1.25 inches tall!!! (the carter YFA is from a 1982 300ci and the carb is VERY tall) currently I'm driving round town without one, I'll swap my old carb back on for sat.chad":xa0fvxu0 said:
sp_alloy_head
Well-known member
The junkyard is filled with air cleaners that are fitted for the YFs.
You might look for a Maverick / Comet Air Cleaner mid 1970's had the Carter's and the A / C's are low.
Gene Fiore
Famous Member
Richard...I have a 14 inch chrome air cleaner that is low profile that I had modified the base to fit my YF when I still had the one barrel. Not sure if my YF is the same you have now but you never know...it just might fit. I had to enlarge the opening for the carb and cut a clearance hole to fit over the electric choke housing.
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o180/gene_fiore/for_sale002-1.jpg
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http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o180/gene_fiore/for_sale002-1.jpg
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o180/gene_fiore/for_sale001-1.jpg
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o180/gene_fiore/for_sale003-1.jpg
Gene, that looks like it'll fit, it's really close from what I can see in the pictures, this will be fun...
so I Met up with Mike again at the dyno shop to test a few more things for him, the carter YFA running 14.1 AF pulled 114hp I drilled out the main jet so I'll see what it turns out to next time... should be intresting. not bad for a 1bbl (220cfm) thanks Rich for providing the carb, street driving is quite fun, I absolutly notice more power now the jet is drilled out. I'll be sure to post my next fuel mileage when I get the chance.... (ATM after the dyno sessions I bet it's 14 or less...)
some of mikes 2bbl carbs pulled 32hp 17tq increase over the 1100v, still adapted down 1bbl hole but not bad running 127hp 167tq in 105* weather, IIRC Mike noticed some vacuum even with a 2bbl adapted down to the 1bbl 1.75inch log hole... so the only way to get zero vacuum would be to go direct mounted.
Thanks Mike for your dedication to everyone's education, it's well appreciated and exciting.
just so no one gets confused, I ran 101hp and 164tq in 80* weather with my 1100v and in 100+ weather it's 95hp+/- 150tq+/- repeatable peak hp+tq.
I still want more...
so I Met up with Mike again at the dyno shop to test a few more things for him, the carter YFA running 14.1 AF pulled 114hp I drilled out the main jet so I'll see what it turns out to next time... should be intresting. not bad for a 1bbl (220cfm) thanks Rich for providing the carb, street driving is quite fun, I absolutly notice more power now the jet is drilled out. I'll be sure to post my next fuel mileage when I get the chance.... (ATM after the dyno sessions I bet it's 14 or less...)
some of mikes 2bbl carbs pulled 32hp 17tq increase over the 1100v, still adapted down 1bbl hole but not bad running 127hp 167tq in 105* weather, IIRC Mike noticed some vacuum even with a 2bbl adapted down to the 1bbl 1.75inch log hole... so the only way to get zero vacuum would be to go direct mounted.
Thanks Mike for your dedication to everyone's education, it's well appreciated and exciting.
just so no one gets confused, I ran 101hp and 164tq in 80* weather with my 1100v and in 100+ weather it's 95hp+/- 150tq+/- repeatable peak hp+tq.
I still want more...
Congradulations, once your engine got some air it really responded.
Just wait till you get a direct mounted carburetor.
Your manual trans also helped with the rwhp#'s.
Did you test with Mike's 1.65 roller rockers?? Bill
Just wait till you get a direct mounted carburetor.
Your manual trans also helped with the rwhp#'s.
Did you test with Mike's 1.65 roller rockers?? Bill
Like Richard said, we went back to the dyno shop yesterday.....
If you recall, after our dyno session last Saturday, we came to the conclusion that the current 1V carb was way to small for this motor (200ci with a warmed up cylinder head, mild cam, headers, and electronic ignition). At WOT (wide open throttle) the motor was pulling 3" of manifold vacuum with the stock rocker assembly, and 5" with a set of high ratio rockers, which isn't good. Basically the motor is trying to suck air (and fuel) into the cylinders, but the carb is restricting airflow, thereby creating manifold vacuum. Ideally, manifold vacuum should be zero at WOT, or very close to it. As such our goal yesterday was to see if we could reduce manifold vacuum to zero, by installing a bigger carb, on a 2-1 adaptor. However we didn't know if this would be possible, as the 1.75" carb bore may become the choke point. We also wanted to make sure we didn't over-size the carb, as this reduces throttle response, low-end torque, gas mileage, and overall driveability. An over-sized carb can also cause hesitations and/or flat spots during acceleration. A good rule of thumb is to slightly under-size the carb for street use, slightly over-size the carb for drag racing.
We started off the day using a Carter YF carb (1V) that Richard installed earlier in the week. The YF carb is 220cfm, as compared to the Vaporizer at 200cfm, so it should make a bit more horsepower. Surprisingly, the results were pretty impressive and more than I expected. After a couple pulls we yanked the YF carb and installed the 2-1 adaptor. The first two carbs we tried were a 32/36 Weber, and a 38 Weber. However we didn't do a full pull with either one, as both carbs were running very lean. Unfortunately I didn't have time to pick up a variety of Weber jets during the week, so we pulled the carbs and set them aside.
Next up was a 350 Holley. However while they were installing the carb, it gave me a little time to think. It just didn't seem right that both Weber’s were running lean, as they both came off running engines. Therefore I thought it would be prudent to check the seal between the manifold and the adaptor before we did the next pull. As it turned out, I was right, it only took one squirt of juice to find a massive leak.
Once we got the leak fixed, we reinstalled the Holley and did two full pulls. Finally, some results…. The horsepower was up, and manifold vacuum was down, to just around one inch. It read zero until we hit 3000 rpm, then it quickly went up to one inch and stayed there. Still not to zero through the entire rpm range, but it was close. Since the carb is considerably larger than our calculated CFM (255-280), I’m assuming the carb is over-sized, and that the restriction is now the carb bore, rather than the carb. We'll try to verify this when we go back, by installing an even larger carb. If we get the same results, then we'll know.
The last carb for the day was a 1.02 Autolite (245cfm). Peak power was a little less than the Holley, however it made a little more low-end torque, and it seemed to idle a little smoother. However manifold vacuum went up to two inches, which would indicate that the carb was a bit on the small side. When we go back in two weeks we’ll try the 1.08 (287cfm) and see how it does. I'm pretty sure it will work fine with the stock rockers, however I think we'll need a bit more carb when we reinstall the high ratio rockers. Fortunately I have a 1.14 Autolite (300cfm), a 1.21 Autolite (351cfm), and the 350 Holley that we can try. I'm not sure if I have a 500 Holley, but if I can find one we'll take it along too. And we still have the Weber's to test.
Even though we only tested two carbs, I was very pleased with the results. In a previous dyno session we only gained 4-5 hp using a 2-1 adaptor, but the gains were much better this time. Unfortunately we didn't have time to reinstall the Weber's, so we'll test them when we go back in two weeks. I just need to make sure we have a good assortment of jets on hand. Once we get the carbs figured out, we'll install the HR roller tipped rockers and see what happens.
Here's the results so far.
The calculated CFM requirements are 255-280cfm.
Air Temp – Carb – CFM – HP/TQ – A/F – Vac
80* - Vaporizer – 200cfm – 101/164 – 12.5 – 3”
100* - Vaporizer – 200cfm – 95/150 – 12.5 – 3”
100* - Carter YF – 220cfm – 114/160 – 14.1 – 3”
105* - Autolite – 245cfm – 123/169 – 14.0 – 2”
105* - Holley – 350cfm – 127/167 – 12.3 – 1”
We still need to test these carbs (in 2 weeks)
32/36 Weber - 325cfm
38/38 Weber - 390cfm
1.08 Autolite - 287 cfm
1.14 Autolite - 300cfm
1.23 Autolite - 356cfm
500 Holley - 500cfm (if I have one)
If you recall, after our dyno session last Saturday, we came to the conclusion that the current 1V carb was way to small for this motor (200ci with a warmed up cylinder head, mild cam, headers, and electronic ignition). At WOT (wide open throttle) the motor was pulling 3" of manifold vacuum with the stock rocker assembly, and 5" with a set of high ratio rockers, which isn't good. Basically the motor is trying to suck air (and fuel) into the cylinders, but the carb is restricting airflow, thereby creating manifold vacuum. Ideally, manifold vacuum should be zero at WOT, or very close to it. As such our goal yesterday was to see if we could reduce manifold vacuum to zero, by installing a bigger carb, on a 2-1 adaptor. However we didn't know if this would be possible, as the 1.75" carb bore may become the choke point. We also wanted to make sure we didn't over-size the carb, as this reduces throttle response, low-end torque, gas mileage, and overall driveability. An over-sized carb can also cause hesitations and/or flat spots during acceleration. A good rule of thumb is to slightly under-size the carb for street use, slightly over-size the carb for drag racing.
We started off the day using a Carter YF carb (1V) that Richard installed earlier in the week. The YF carb is 220cfm, as compared to the Vaporizer at 200cfm, so it should make a bit more horsepower. Surprisingly, the results were pretty impressive and more than I expected. After a couple pulls we yanked the YF carb and installed the 2-1 adaptor. The first two carbs we tried were a 32/36 Weber, and a 38 Weber. However we didn't do a full pull with either one, as both carbs were running very lean. Unfortunately I didn't have time to pick up a variety of Weber jets during the week, so we pulled the carbs and set them aside.
Next up was a 350 Holley. However while they were installing the carb, it gave me a little time to think. It just didn't seem right that both Weber’s were running lean, as they both came off running engines. Therefore I thought it would be prudent to check the seal between the manifold and the adaptor before we did the next pull. As it turned out, I was right, it only took one squirt of juice to find a massive leak.
Once we got the leak fixed, we reinstalled the Holley and did two full pulls. Finally, some results…. The horsepower was up, and manifold vacuum was down, to just around one inch. It read zero until we hit 3000 rpm, then it quickly went up to one inch and stayed there. Still not to zero through the entire rpm range, but it was close. Since the carb is considerably larger than our calculated CFM (255-280), I’m assuming the carb is over-sized, and that the restriction is now the carb bore, rather than the carb. We'll try to verify this when we go back, by installing an even larger carb. If we get the same results, then we'll know.
The last carb for the day was a 1.02 Autolite (245cfm). Peak power was a little less than the Holley, however it made a little more low-end torque, and it seemed to idle a little smoother. However manifold vacuum went up to two inches, which would indicate that the carb was a bit on the small side. When we go back in two weeks we’ll try the 1.08 (287cfm) and see how it does. I'm pretty sure it will work fine with the stock rockers, however I think we'll need a bit more carb when we reinstall the high ratio rockers. Fortunately I have a 1.14 Autolite (300cfm), a 1.21 Autolite (351cfm), and the 350 Holley that we can try. I'm not sure if I have a 500 Holley, but if I can find one we'll take it along too. And we still have the Weber's to test.
Even though we only tested two carbs, I was very pleased with the results. In a previous dyno session we only gained 4-5 hp using a 2-1 adaptor, but the gains were much better this time. Unfortunately we didn't have time to reinstall the Weber's, so we'll test them when we go back in two weeks. I just need to make sure we have a good assortment of jets on hand. Once we get the carbs figured out, we'll install the HR roller tipped rockers and see what happens.
Here's the results so far.
The calculated CFM requirements are 255-280cfm.
Air Temp – Carb – CFM – HP/TQ – A/F – Vac
80* - Vaporizer – 200cfm – 101/164 – 12.5 – 3”
100* - Vaporizer – 200cfm – 95/150 – 12.5 – 3”
100* - Carter YF – 220cfm – 114/160 – 14.1 – 3”
105* - Autolite – 245cfm – 123/169 – 14.0 – 2”
105* - Holley – 350cfm – 127/167 – 12.3 – 1”
We still need to test these carbs (in 2 weeks)
32/36 Weber - 325cfm
38/38 Weber - 390cfm
1.08 Autolite - 287 cfm
1.14 Autolite - 300cfm
1.23 Autolite - 356cfm
500 Holley - 500cfm (if I have one)
Mike the AF ratio for both autolite 200cfm were 12.5, didn't matter what the outside temp was, both read the same, for the vacuum, I'm sure the 1100v pulled at least 3, it was 5 vac with the HR roller tip rockers.
Thanks again Mike!
looks like I'll be pulling the head when we're done dyno testing Mikes theories to have some more fun on the dyno
wsa111 - we did the weekend before, but because of the carb restriction it just didn't show any numbers, low end or top end. we stayed with the 1.5 rockers this time to get the vacuum to 0 @ WOT but tests conclude it just didn't work.
Edit:
7-2-11
I was able to use Mikes 350 for a road test, and i'm very giddy about the performance, it accelerates where I think it should and I'm still able to cruise. on the road is where I can tell the most change, passing gear is great and really kicks your seat.
I hope to run a tank or two for Mike to get some mpg numbers, I think it might be running even more richer as I have found a vacuum leak since the last dyno, I now wonder if the lean carbs will be spot on now too.
Thanks Mike! (I found out that a 5/16's brake line fits the holley carb's inlet port)
Richard
Thanks again Mike!
looks like I'll be pulling the head when we're done dyno testing Mikes theories to have some more fun on the dyno
wsa111 - we did the weekend before, but because of the carb restriction it just didn't show any numbers, low end or top end. we stayed with the 1.5 rockers this time to get the vacuum to 0 @ WOT but tests conclude it just didn't work.
Edit:
7-2-11
I was able to use Mikes 350 for a road test, and i'm very giddy about the performance, it accelerates where I think it should and I'm still able to cruise. on the road is where I can tell the most change, passing gear is great and really kicks your seat.
I hope to run a tank or two for Mike to get some mpg numbers, I think it might be running even more richer as I have found a vacuum leak since the last dyno, I now wonder if the lean carbs will be spot on now too.
Thanks Mike! (I found out that a 5/16's brake line fits the holley carb's inlet port)
Richard
Update, after road testing for a week with the 2-1bbl adapter and Mikes Holley 350, I met up with Mike again, I'll let Mike Recap what he discovered.
Sadly I developed a "tick" in the engine and I was progressivly loosing power as the tick became progressivly louder. As i've never had a tick in the enigne I called it quits until fixed, and ticked all the way home.
I was looking for bad lifters (as we hypothisied that it might be valve train related) and I'm confused but reminded about hydrolik liftes.
I did 2 tests, # 1 fireing and # 6 firing (180* out) and found 5 push rods to be loose enough for me to spin them with my fingers, but I have non-adjustible rockers and hydrolic lifters so I think the lifters weren't pumped up, as it was more than 12hrs since I last ran it till I tore into the engine. The current Condition of the lifter are all the same, the physically look the same as all the others, If i didn't label them I could not tell them apart.
Mike and I agree since I have taken out them I can replace the lifters with some of his, just for good measure. I'm thinking oil through even thou I don't need them now, this way i'm ready for anything I might want to upgrade to in the future without having to replace the lifters or remove the head again.
Mike then mentioned that it could be an exhaust gasket leak, i have never had an exhaust leak with headers so this makes sense as it wasn't what i was use too with a manifold. I looked at the gasket and have determined that port 6 the gasket was splitting and the gases were going between the 2 halves. I'm glad it wasn't any more serious.
now to a great note, My 78 hex log head is off to Mikes head builder, and I'll be getting the 2bbl direct mount conversion done
Sadly I developed a "tick" in the engine and I was progressivly loosing power as the tick became progressivly louder. As i've never had a tick in the enigne I called it quits until fixed, and ticked all the way home.
I was looking for bad lifters (as we hypothisied that it might be valve train related) and I'm confused but reminded about hydrolik liftes.
I did 2 tests, # 1 fireing and # 6 firing (180* out) and found 5 push rods to be loose enough for me to spin them with my fingers, but I have non-adjustible rockers and hydrolic lifters so I think the lifters weren't pumped up, as it was more than 12hrs since I last ran it till I tore into the engine. The current Condition of the lifter are all the same, the physically look the same as all the others, If i didn't label them I could not tell them apart.
Mike and I agree since I have taken out them I can replace the lifters with some of his, just for good measure. I'm thinking oil through even thou I don't need them now, this way i'm ready for anything I might want to upgrade to in the future without having to replace the lifters or remove the head again.
Mike then mentioned that it could be an exhaust gasket leak, i have never had an exhaust leak with headers so this makes sense as it wasn't what i was use too with a manifold. I looked at the gasket and have determined that port 6 the gasket was splitting and the gases were going between the 2 halves. I'm glad it wasn't any more serious.
now to a great note, My 78 hex log head is off to Mikes head builder, and I'll be getting the 2bbl direct mount conversion done