Ford 200- Spark in with no spark out...

I recently had an issue with my Pertronix 1 unit where it apparently gave it out on me. I decided to drop some points in there to get the car running again but it didn't start, just cranking and more cranking...

Its been two weeks and after replacing everything coil forward except dizzy the engine started but gave out. Apparently the dashpot diaphragm was burned out cause of the gas that dried up in there. So i swapped out both diaphragms and tried it again today and once more there is no spark going to the spark plugs. There is coil spark to the dizzy, there is electricity at the points because when i was setting them they would spark but there is no spark out to the wires. Rotor is new, cap is new, wires are new, condenser new, points are semi-new, yet no spark. What could it be, this problem has been killing me for two weeks and yesterday it started twice. Today i cranked it and it kicked once but then went out. I believe the points are gapped right, at least enough for it to start twice and everything else seems to be doing its job.

What could it be? The rotor matched the piston when I checked the TDC stuff and there is gas, theres just no spark out of those dang wires. Frustration is killing me right now, im stuck without a car and ma bike is just not as cool as ma stang. 8)

Some things to check for. That the condenser is grounding well to the point plate is clean of dirt rust etc. (I would also try another condenser even if used they can be bad). The point plate is grounded to the distributor body, the distributor body grounds to engine (i.e. not painted or corroded near hold down clamp and bolt, also that you have a good ground from engine to body and battery to engine.

The condenser is good, I swapped it after i noticed the first one i put it was bad. It seems to be clean and free of any major particles that might hinder its task. The point plate is supposed connected to the braided wire that i believe comes from the distributor body? Right?
And the distributor is well grounded, the engine to body ground that's connected to the firewall has always been dirty but it has also always worked. My battery is dead cause of all the troubleshooting i've been doing so ive been having to wait for good people to pass by so they can give me a moment of their time to jump my car. Could that be a problem?

Could the bad grounding potentially cause this, i never had a grounding issue when i was running pertronix. Should i consider the grounding with more seriousness with points involved?

My battery is dead cause of all the troubleshooting i've been doing so ive been having to wait for good people to pass by so they can give me a moment of their time to jump my car. Could that be a problem?

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Yes the battery needs to be fully charged and the posts and cables need to be clean.

Could the bad grounding potentially cause this, i never had a grounding issue when i was running pertronix. Should i consider the grounding with more seriousness with points involved?

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Electricity flows from + to - so yes absolutely. No mater what system you use points or the pertronix (electronic) you need to have good + positive conections and - grounds. Take each connection apart they are all easy to clean up with a little wire bush. I have had a number of the distrib wires be bad too (a break inside insulation) so cheak that by bending the wire while you have a test light or volt/ohm meter hooked up to see if you have contnuity at all times. Good luck

Do you have a security system installed in your car. If so, some systems use a relay to prevent the car from starting where others; like the hood lock/starter kill on my wife's car just grounds the the coil to prevent it from firing. Just a guess since you have done everything else.

dudeigota66":fkej964t said:

There is coil spark to the dizzy

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First things first, lets take this one step at a time.

Are you getting consistant and continuous spark from the coil?

What do you have the points gapped at? Recently I had to drop my son's to .017 to get it to fire which is the V8 spec. Can't explain it, new distributor, points, everything but it's been running like a top for couple months now. Same deal, did away with defective Pertronix. Drove me nuts for over a week.

Like always, the tank still rolls. I went out, got a new battery cranked it once and heard that sweet little six burn. The issue now is that the coil heats up, and the car makes a sound that appears to sound like a misfire, although im not sure if it is. I tried adjusting the timing to highest vacuum setting and then adjusting the idle mixture screw as well. I have noticed that it does this noise more frequently when it is warm. Could the heating up coil cause this? I am running pertronix 1 with a stock spec coil.

Has the pink wire been bypassed. If the coil is getting hot and its a stock coil, it may be getting to much voltage and shorten out. I'm running the Pertronix 1 in my I6 with stock type coil with no problem. Make sure the air gap is set correctly on the pertronix and this my sound like a dumb question but are you getting enough fuel to keep it running :

Im not sure if the pink wire has been bypassed because the previous owner did the mod. What would the pink wire be? Does yours have it bypassed? And about the pertronix there is a story that i think might have some involvement...

The previous owner did the pertronix swap on a load-o-matic dizzy for the previous C5 block. I swapped out the block for a 68 and swapped the pertronix into the new dizzy. I didn't pay attention to adjustment and i didn't gap the magnet right and so the sleeve shaved into the unit itself. Now there is a gap of about 1/8" of an inch because the magnet was shaved down.

Im not sure if that is an issue because the magnet had been worn down before the coil gave out and the engine ran fine. Its only now that it started doing this. But this could be an issue couldn't it?

Check the hot wire going into the coil with a voltmeter and the key on. The voltage should be about 8 volts. If it has the same voltage as the battery the pink wire has been bypassed.

The pink wire goes from ignition switch to inner fire wall and usually has a heavy braided rope like insulator.

Do you have an inline spark tester, or something similar? I've found that to be very useful when diagnosing no-spark issues. You can stick it between the coil and cap to make sure you are getting a regular spark, then put it between the cap and plug to be sure you're getting regular spark at each tower. It's *really* helpful to have two, so you can "match" coil->cap with cap->plug. They're like $10 at Harbor Freight. You can use an inductive timing light, but the inline testers are more convenient.

One thing that has happened with a few cars I've owned is minor manufacturing differences between different brands of cap & rotor. Literally, there is too much gap between the cap & rotor for spark to make it across. Happens more often with off brands, but I've had one quality brand cap not play nice with another quality brand rotor. That directly causes a spark in, none out scenario. The two inline tester test nails that problem down right quick. Could be either at the coil in or spark plug out locations!

I assume you've tested to be sure the drive gear on the distributor is good, and the rotor stays put on the shaft, yes? You can have someone crank the engine (or use a starter tester switch) while you put very minor tension on the rotor (cap removed) to be sure you've got good, reliable engagement.

Where are you currently seeing "no spark"? At the cap or at the end of the wire or at the plug?

If you have a spare distributor, it can be useful to wire it up and spin it by hand to see what you've got. On the Falcon, with no plugs connecting wiring to distributor this may be a PITA, though. It's useful on other cars.

dudeigota66":7isk5nw7 said:

I didn't pay attention to adjustment and i didn't gap the magnet right and so the sleeve shaved into the unit itself. Now there is a gap of about 1/8" of an inch because the magnet was shaved down.

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I still have the pink wire connected, there should also be a 0.030 air gap between the sleeve and the unit, adjusting as you would points. From your previous statement (above) and the magnet and the sleeve being shaved down it sounds like your petronix unit is ruined. Before you take it out though, try setting the proper air gap and if that doen't work try reinstalling the points. Back to that dumb question, are you getting enough fuel? Strange it will run a little and quit.

So I went through the wiring and found the pink resistor wire still in its insulation connected to a black wire that im assuming is ground. I do remember having trouble with this cable before, at one point i tried using this wire as ground and when i did so the car wouldn't start. How does this wire fit into the scheme of things?

I am definitely getting enough fuel, Ive been running it at a good 40-50 miles every day and it responds very well and at idle it no longer shuts off, im assuming the first coil replacement I got was defective. I couldn't get the gap down to the .030 but i found that Summit has replacement magnets in stock and im thinking i might order one of those if the thickness of the magnet has some significant role in the ignition.

Does anyone know if the magnet sleeve thickness has something important to do with the functions of the pertronix unit? Because the sleeve is indeed shaved down and the car runs alright, its not factory smooth but not shaking in roughness either.

Im reading into dwell and gaps and stuff and im finding out the added radius of the sleeve might help out to ensure a longer dwell because of the increase in circumference of the sleeve. Is my reasoning correct? Would it be a significant addition?

The pink wire should go to the power side (red wire) of the coil, if I recall in goes into one of the harness plugs in the firewall under the dash and splits into 2 diff color wires on the engine side connector, you'll have to look at a diagram to be sure.

Did you ever check the voltage at the coil power wire? It should be around 8 if the pink wire is still connected correctly. There are also later model ceramic resistors that can be placed inline.

Quick check would be positive side of voltmeter to coil hot wire and negative side to ground.

If its 12 volts then it could be enough to wear a coil out.
But if you replaced the coil it should run for quite a while before it does I would think.

In this diagram:

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/foru...main-disconnect-wire-s-66-interior-wiring.jpg

pink wire is said to go to the tach and then exit out into the coil. Is this the wire that is intended to go into the negative side of the coil for the tach?

pink wire is said to go to the tach and then exit out into the coil. Is this the wire that is intended to go into the negative side of the coil for the tach?

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No- the pink wire is a positive power wire with resistance built in to step down the voltage for the points. I know this sounds confusing because almost every other tachometer on the planet runs off the negative side of the coil, but OEM Mustang tachs ran inline on the positive side of the coil. The pink wire is the positive power source for the stock ignition so that's why the wiring diagrams show it wired with the optional tach that way.

You mentioned up above that at one time you ran a ground wire to the pink wire, that could have caused the pink wire to overheat and melt through it's insulation somewhere. This sort of damage can cause intermittent short circuit problems, maybe causing problems like you are having. I would temporarily bypass the pink wire altogether off the back of your ignition switch and test how it runs (you could put a ballast resistor on the bypass to not burn the points, but you can probably get by with 12V until you stabilize the ignition).

The pink wire was connected to a ground wire, and when i saw that i just tapped it and between the plugs i put another ground wire coming from the tach. Im not sure if that means the pink wire is bypassed or not. What is the pink wire connected to otherwise?

The Pink wire is the original (factory harness) resistance wire (gives a voltage drop) it is connected to the ignition switch at one end and coil at the other. It should not be hooked to a ground that would short it out. But don't assume that because a wire has black insulation that it is a ground. Over the years old car wiring often is spliced to make repairs and black and red primary wire are the most commonly used for that. You should have a volt ohmmeter to be able to test wiring circuits or at least a test light to check for continuity.