Fresh 200 with oil drip issues

The_DropOut

Well-known member
Hello

I have a fresh 200ci Six. I rebuilt it my self, but had the machine work performed at a local machine shop. Currently the motor has just under 500 miles on it. The motor is a stock set up. Standard compression, standard everything. All new parts and it purs like a kitten.

Problem 1. Oil is escaping my dip stick. The rubber disk within the cap is soft enough to seal, but the cap itself is not really designed to completely seal, just keep dirt from getting in. I’m curious why the oil pressure is escaping from my dip stick tube. The most I’ve seen come from the tube is a few drops. The oil level is perfect. Feel free to ask more questions.

Problem 2. Oil pressure gauge needle bounces all over the place. On my latest drive I noticed the oil pressure drop, then bounce back up and drop and it never held a constant reading. The oil pressure gauge is mechanical and new (not an expensive unit). I did notice a few drips of oil leaking from the fitting at the block. I did tighten it up a bit and have not tested it yet.

When I first installed the oil pressure gauge it held a constant (and appropreate) reading all the time and I had no oil leaks from the fitting. So I’m guessing that the fitting came loose and gave me a bad reading.

These are my only two problems. Any advice or personal info on oil leaks from the dip stick would be appreciated.

Thanks
 
Explorer":1qlzocu3 said:
Dipstick leak: Sounds like PCV system is not installed and building crankcase pressure.

x2

I don't know about the oil pressure. I could see it spiking high if some random garbage from the rebuild was blocking the relief valve from opening...I guess it could keep it from closing back up properly. I'd almost say drain it, drop the pan, clean the pump, ans when you reassemble, slap a magnet on the oilpan unser the pickup to retain any shavings and keep them from the system. on your next oil change, drain and drop the pan (leaving the magnet in place) and see if you have a collection of chips and shavings.
 
Thanks for the feed back. Here are two images of my PCV valve installed.

pcv-003.jpg


pcv-004.jpg


THESE PHOTOS WERE TAKEN DURING MOTOR INSTALL, SEVERAL THINGS IN THE PHOTO WERE NOT YET HOOKED UP.

The PCV is brand new. I just pulled it and gave it a shake, sounds like the valve is free and rattles as it should.

The oil fill cap is brand new and has a vent like an old valve cover breather.

I have the PCV tube attached to the bottom of my carb spacer. I have not checked this for vacuum, possible that it is not even sucking anything.

As for the gauge. I have air bubbles in the mechanical tube (running from the motor to the gauge). I noticed that when the gauge dips and trips out there is alot of air bubble action in the line. The gauges are made by Autogauge (bargin barrel gauges). I've never had a problem with bargin barrel gauges before, but it is possible that this gauge is faulty.
It was suggested that I buy an electric gauge and install it to get an alternitive reading. If things are still bouncy then I'll have to move to the more involved idea of dropping the pan.

I'll add a hard drive magnet to the bottom of the pan, thoes things are so darned powerfull they might keep my crank from spinning. :D .

Thanks for the info so far.
 
JackFish":zrnzaeov said:
Hey where'd you get that throttle cable bracket?

I made it. Last year, at Billetproof (Washington), I met a guy with a 200ci from a Mavric. His motor had a simular bracket, factory made.

I tried like heck to get my 1101A carb to mate up with mechanical linkage, but the Falcon was never designed to use a 1101A and the linkage was 90 degrees off. After many failed attempts to use mechanical linkage I decided to swap over to cable. But the problem was how to support the cable & not put a tight bend in the cable. The Mavric bracket came to mind and played with some ideas and soon came up with this design you see.

Once I decided to go to cable I knew that cables dont like tight bends. so I realized that the cable could come from the left hand side of the firewall on the left side of the master cylinder. To achieve this I needed to alter the throttle pedal linkage. Soon I came up with this design.

linkage_001.jpg


linkage_002.jpg


By rotating the throttle pedal 180 degrees, I could mount the entire link inside the cockpit.

linkage_003.jpg


linkage_004.jpg


This put the cable pull portion right where I wanted it.

linkage_005.jpg


The cable bracket was built before i altered my throttle pedal linkage.

linkage_006.jpg


linkage_007.jpg


I made the cable mount out of some thick stuff, but there was too much play in it, swaying from left to right as I pressed on the gas pedal, so I made the brace, simular to the Maverick mount. This support sides over the carb stud and works very well. On the passangers side I mounted a spring hold with lots of holes in it, so I could alter pedal feel or add another spring if nessassary. I have a good return action from this woulout a lot of downward force on the pedal.
 
Back on topic.

I drove the Ranch today and played around with RPM & other forces which can affect oil pressure. I noticed that if I brake very hard my oil pressure always drops below 20psi. Driving (& coasting)down steep hills, climbin up steep hills and coasting on flat ground (35mph) dont effect the pressure at all. But a quick stop will. This makes sence.

I have not tried a different gauge, or removed my gauge & hose to check for blockage. I'll get a chance to do that in the next few weeks.
 
Sounds like you might have some oil starvation (oil moving away from pickup tube) you could put some simple baffling in the front and rear of the pan to help keep oil surrounding the pick up tube. On your PCV valve have you ever pulled it out with the engine running to see if it is working? IE putting your finger over the open end and releasing it and listening for the valve movement.
 
bubba22349":ll1qs2hl said:
Sounds like you might have some oil starvation (oil moving away from pickup tube) you could put some simple baffling in the front and rear of the pan to help keep oil surrounding the pick up tube. On your PCV valve have you ever pulled it out with the engine running to see if it is working? IE putting your finger over the open end and releasing it and listening for the valve movement.

Oil starvation I agree. But this is a factory pan, pump and pick up tube. Is anyone else experiencing this? Do you use baffles in your pan? Are there aftermarket pans with baffles and trapdoors installed?

I have not tried the pcv test. That is a good idea, I'll try that later tonight.

Thanks
 
Another thought...maybe I dont have enough oil in the block.

The dip stick I'm using came with this motor, but who knows if it is the correct one. I pulled a dipstick out of a 1975 Mavric (200 ci block) today and it is actually longer than mine. But I have owned one other car that had the wrong dip stick in it and I was putting too much oil in.

Does anyone out there have a 1968 200ci motor? if so can you measure your dipstick for me....that sounded wrong. :mrgreen:

Thanks for the helpful advice so far.
 
I just checked the pcv valve by removing it from the valve cover, placing my thumb over the hole and almost lost my thum. The pcv valve is working great. I also took my oil fill breather off and placed the palm of my hand over the oil fill hole. I allowed the block to build vacuum and then pulled my hand from the valve cover and heard a WHOOSH as the air sucked into the block.

So this part of the system is working properly.

Any more hints anyone?
 
Oil starvation I agree. But this is a factory pan, pump and pick up tube. Is anyone else experiencing this? Do you use baffles in your pan? Are there aftermarket pans with baffles and trapdoors installed?

Yes I have experienced oil starvation more than a couple time over the years don't let it go on very long or you will do damage to your bearings and crankshaft. I also build or rework oil pans with larger sumps, baffles, and or trapdoors for use in my race cars and hi performance type engines it's not hard to do if you can weld. I don't know if there are any aftermarket pans with baffles and trapdoors made for the Ford sixes but I doubt it. How much oil do you have in your engine? With the wrong dip stick or if you happen to be a quart low than that could do the same thing. You could put in the correct for you engine amount of oil than remark the dip stick to full have had to do that a few times. Glad your PCV is working great. :nod:
 
I'm due for an oil change. I recall putting in the recomended amount per what the book said...."4 1/2 quarts w/ filter change". I'll do the same and then check my dip stick. I recall doing this before I did my motor break in I'm sure I would have #@!* my pants if I'd have noticed that my dip stick read more or less than what it should have read.

I'll post more when I get to check these things. As of now the car is waiting for me to get some time.

Thanks for the intrest and helpful tips. More to come. Stay posted.
 
Invectivus":3uuxyf3e said:
Explorer":3uuxyf3e said:
Dipstick leak: Sounds like PCV system is not installed and building crankcase pressure.

x2

I don't know about the oil pressure. I could see it spiking high if some random garbage from the rebuild was blocking the relief valve from opening...I guess it could keep it from closing back up properly. I'd almost say drain it, drop the pan, clean the pump, ans when you reassemble, slap a magnet on the oilpan unser the pickup to retain any shavings and keep them from the system. on your next oil change, drain and drop the pan (leaving the magnet in place) and see if you have a collection of chips and shavings.

I will follow your idea and snap a hard drive magnet in the proper spot. Then we'll see what happens. Thanks.
 
Thanks for the great off-topic writeup on the cable. great pics.
Worth putting into the stickies.
Really nice work there, it's very similar to the factory fox-body setup.
 
UPDATE:

I pulled the mechanical oil gauge today and check the external line. I also unscrewed the oil line fitting to the block and checked it all out for a plug of some kind. I found nothing. So I put it all back the way it was.

I did an oil change today. Simply changed the oil filter and dumped the oil into a clean white tub.

I then filled the oil filter with as much oil as it would hold and not pour out on to the ground when installing it. Then filled the motor with 3 1/2 quarts of oil PLUS the rest of the oil that was intended for the oil filter. I fired up the motor and let it idle for a few minutes. Once all was settled, I checked the dip stick and it read FULL, right on the line!

So this tells me that I have the correct dip stick.

Finally, I ran the motor.

The book states that a warm motor should have oil pressure of 35-55psi at 2000rpm.

I warmed the motor up then my brother and I went for a drive. With the motor full of oil, warm (thermostat open) and holding an rpm of 2000 my oil pressure was just a tick or two below 40psi. At stop lights my oil pressure would drop to about 20-25psi.

We were not able to reproduce the wild fluctuation of needle movement that I'd witnessed before, nore did oil leak from my dip stick tube. The drive was a short one. so when I get a chance to drive on a longer trip I'll pay close attention.

Right now I feel that my wild gauge swings are due to my oil pump starving for oil oil. this could be caused by the oil pick up not reaching the oil because there is not enough oil in the pan or the pick up tube is in the wrong position or elevation. OR the oil pump is not working properly. The odd thing is that I'd expect this problem to occure at any rpm or at any speed if it were a mechanical issue.

I'll drive this for a few days and see if I can get it happen again. If so I'm going to check my oil level that very moment. If the dip stick shows low, I might be tempted to add a scosh of oil and continue the drive to see if that solves the prob. If it does then I'd have to say that my oil pick up tube is in the wrong position or I taped it in too deeply and it is not soaking in enough oil.

i'm not ready to pull my pan yet. I have a few more short tests i want to look into.

Thanks for the input.
 
just last week i installed one of those chrome breather caps in the back on my 250 and started blowing oil out of the dipstick, so i put the old cap with the pcv valve in it and have no issues now.
 
79granada":1u9tg72c said:
just last week i installed one of those chrome breather caps in the back on my 250 and started blowing oil out of the dipstick, so i put the old cap with the pcv valve in it and have no issues now.

Interesting!?!

I was thinking about that cap. I was trying to visualize how gasses from the lower portion of the block would be sucked away if the valve cover had such a huge hole in it. If the PCV valve is a vacuum then the chrome breather cap is the same thing as a large hole with a filter. Air would be drawn into the valve cover, through the chrome breather and then get sucked right up into the PCV. I assumed that vapors from the lower block would just slowly make their way up. But looking at my old 144, it uses a breather cap and a tube mounted on the side of the block. When air passes over the end of the tube it creates vacuum and then draws fresh air into the block via the breather cap. But a PCV valve is the vacuum source, therefore does not require a breather cap. What you've discovered is that the real cap, acts like a plug, creating more crankcase vacuum which might actually draw air into the crank via the dip stick and also past the cap (because it is not a super snug fit).

I never wanted a chrome cap but settled for it because Icouldnt find a new regular cap with a good gasket.

I'll take the cap off of my old 170 and see if that makes a difference. I'll have to make a new gasket for it. I'll let you folks know how this works out.

Thanks! :beer:
 
DIRTY RATS!

My 170 & 144 dont use spin on caps. The valve cover has a stubby stove pipe with a breather cap pushes down into.

Does anyone know where I can buy a new valve cover oil fill cap? I checked FordSix.com, Mac & Dearborn and all of them carry what I already have.
 
i put the chrome one on for the same reason and i found that the gasket off the chrome works on the stock. but i dont know where you can get a stock one autozone dosent have them if you find out where you can get a new one pm me
 
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